UK registered car irish roads.

tonythecamper

Ive noticed recently a lot more UK or Northern Ireland reg cars on the roads lately around Dublin and other parts of the country. Theres also a lot of them for sale on certain sites.

Are people just buying these vehicles and driving them around now without insurance tax and NCT?

Can the guards check these vehicles to see if they have insurance as in can the irish and uk police now check each others databases

BronsonTB

That's why there is more inter agency checkpoints (Guards & Customs).
Some are genuinely here for a short time, others are 100% illegal.

Anyone selling a UK register vehicle in the republic can be reported. Customs would like to 'chat' to these people about a small thing called VRT.

tonythecamper

So is it only customs that can check these details. It just seems lately theres more and more. Now I know especially in Dublin theres a lot of them just up and down from the north but some of them around look like theres kids driving them and I would nearly put money on it theres no insurance or anything on them vehicles.

H3llR4iser

Maybe they do have insurance in UK, which incidentally is much cheaper. I have to say, most of these cars that I see around are models that would pay an absolute fortune in tax/insurance in the Republic - big capacity engines, high peformance.

Also, I work around the D2/D4 area, and I can easily say that I've been seeing the very same cars (a few Porsche, a couple of M-sport BMWs, a Ferrari and an AMG C63) around the area almost daily for the last two years...

Why do you assume no insurance?

I drove around on a uk reg for the guts of a year back when everyone was doing it and I always had insurance. There are far far less people chancing it now on uk reg cars. There was a time when 3 or 4 of us in my group of friends alone where going around for ages on UK plates (everyone fully insured).

Charles Babbage

Aubrey Spoiled Villain wrote: »

Why do you assume no insurance?

I drove around on a uk reg for the guts of a year back when everyone was doing it and I always had insurance. There are far far less people chancing it now on uk reg cars. There was a time when 3 or 4 of us in my group of friends alone where going around for ages on UK plates (everyone fully insured).

It seems unlikely that these car owners have given an accurate account of where the car is usually kept to their insurance company.

Charles Babbage

Charles Babbage wrote: »

It seems unlikely that these car owners have given an accurate account of where the car is usually kept to their insurance company.

They could be insured with an Irish company, I never had a problem getting cover on a uk registered Car with an Irish company. Also even if they have uk insurance the location the car is kept is quite a difficult one to prove and does not mean they are not insured.

tonythecamper

Maybe I'm wrong and they are insured I just find it hard to believe. Yes the big expensive cars I'm sure probably have insurance but a uk registered car very young driver I'm finding it hard to believe.

Just out of curiosity how did an Irish insurance company insure you on a UK reg vehicle? I thought all cars in Ireland had to be Irish registered

tonythecamper

tonythecamper wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong and they are insured I just find it hard to believe. Yes the big expensive cars I'm sure probably have insurance but a uk registered car very young driver I'm finding it hard to believe.

Just out of curiosity how did an Irish insurance company insure you on a UK reg vehicle? I thought all cars in Ireland had to be Irish registered

Things may have tightened up recently but I had no issue insuring a uk reg with more than one insurance company. The registration is the job of the gardai and customs to police not an insurance company. I had a uk reg car on Irish insurance for the guts of two years across two different spells and I know others who cars on Irish insurance for 3 or 4 years

bear1

BronsonTB wrote: »

That's why there is more inter agency checkpoints (Guards & Customs).
Some are genuinely here for a short time, others are 100% illegal.

Anyone selling a UK register vehicle in the republic can be reported. Customs would like to 'chat' to these people about a small thing called VRT.

But it's no illegal to sell them so why would you report them?

Isambard

after a short period, the Insurance Company is obliged to inform the Authorities that they are insuring a forueign vehicle.

It is not permitted to sell foreign registered cars unless you are an authorised dealer and even then the VRT has to be done on sale.

NIMAN

Some companies will only insure a UK car for 30 days, then you need to re-register it.

As for UK and ni regs, you wanna come up here to the border, donegal is awash with people resident driving UK regs. Some for years.

Isambard

it's also not permitted for an Irish resident to drive a foreign car except with Revenue prior approval

CiniO

Isambard wrote: »

after a short period, the Insurance Company is obliged to inform the Authorities that they are insuring a forueign vehicle.

It is not permitted to sell foreign registered cars unless you are an authorised dealer and even then the VRT has to be done on sale.

What about non-resident person selling vehicle from home country?

F.e. English fella comes here for holidays with his UK registered car, and tries to sell it.
Is this legal or not?

bazz26

Insurance companies report to Revenue if they are not notified of a change over from UK plate to Irish plate after 30 days afaik.

fullstop

CiniO wrote: »

F.e. English fella comes here for holidays with his UK registered car, and tries to sell it.
Is this legal or not?

Fairly likely scenario alright...

bazz26

bazz26 wrote: »

Insurance companies report to Revenue if they are not notified of a change over from UK plate to Irish plate after 30 days afaik.

I was being told that 8 years ago too and I never had any hassle even after 8 or 9 months driving around on the uk reg.

sunnysoutheast

The last time I registered a UK car in Ireland (2014) there was no issue getting cover but the insurers were most insistent on telling me that they would advise Revenue after 30 days if not on IE plates by then. It was re-regged to Irish plates before that anyway so I never found out.

I thought that the restriction on Irish-resident drivers referred to cars brought in under a temporary exemption rather than UK plates per se, otherwise you wouldn't be able to drive it during the import process.

I'd suspect most of these UK-reg. cars are relying on the territorial limits of the policy including Ireland but you'd have to expect there would be some questions asked by the insurer if the cars had been out of the UK for a long time and there was an incident.

A guy at work is genuinely working here short-term with a UK car and he says he's been stopped a couple of times by customs over the summer.

Of course there are a certain section of the community who are seemingly immune to any sort of scrutiny so that is an option too.

Isambard

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

A guy at work is genuinely working here short-term with a UK car and he says he's been stopped a couple of times by customs over the summer.

.

i think you're supposed to get clearance to use the car in advance

sunnysoutheast

Isambard wrote: »

i think you're supposed to get clearance to use the car in advance

He's not Irish or Irish-resident.

He's from the West Country oo-arrr

Isambard

It's that he is using a foreign car temporaily in Ireland that matters. I think you're supposed to get clearance from Revenue in advance so that the car is not liable for VRT.

sunnysoutheast

Isambard wrote: »

It's that he is using a foreign car temporaily in Ireland that matters. I think you're supposed to get clearance from Revenue in advance so that the car is not liable for VRT.

I thought that was only for periods of > 12 months?

Anyway he says he always carries his GB insurance cert and GB licence with him and they seemed happy enough with that. Thus far anyway

Isambard

I doubt you can be temporaily resident for more than 12 months

Isambard

Isambard wrote: »

I doubt you can be temporaily resident for more than 12 months

It's quite complicated. There are situations where you could be living here for years but still entitled to drive a UK reg car if your family ties are in the north and you return there regulalry.

Isambard

yes, but you'd need Revenue permission. You can't just do it otherwise we'd all do it

GM228

Aubrey Spoiled Villain wrote: »

It's quite complicated. There are situations where you could be living here for years but still entitled to drive a UK reg car if your family ties are in the north and you return there regulalry.

It's for occupational ties (not family) outside the state and you must only return to the state on your days off, you can't be in the state for more than 3 nights per week and you can't be paying your income tax here either. If your registered here for income tax and/or you reside here for more than 3 days a week you can't get the exemption.

GM228

GM228 wrote: »

It's for occupational ties (not family) outside the state and you must only return to the state on your days off, you can't be in the state for more than 3 nights per week and you can't be paying your income tax here either. If your registered here for income tax and/or you reside here for more than 3 days a week you can't get the exemption.

No it's family ties outside the state, you can be registered for tax and paying tax here and there is no definition of how many days you can spend in a row. Source: someone I know who availed of the exemption.

GM228

Aubrey Spoiled Villain wrote: »

No it's family ties outside the state, you can be registered for tax and paying tax here and there is no definition of how many days you can spend in a row. Source: someone I know who availed of the exemption.

Great source

That only applies if the "normal residence" of the vehicle owner is outside the state.

An Irish state resident normally resident here can't get an exemption unless in the scenario I outlined.

Source: The Finance Act S135 (as amended), and the Temporary Exemption from Registration of Vehicles Regulations 1993.

BorneTobyWilde

What is story with a hire car. Can a person hire a car in UK and use it here 365 days a year, if he wished too.
What is story if brother has a car in uk, in his name, insurance, tax mot so on, and it has open driving and insurance for uk Ireland. Can I simply drive it as it's not mine and it's insured and taxed so on.

GM228

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What is story with a hire car. Can a person hire a car in UK and use it here 365 days a year, if he wished too.
What is story if brother has a car in uk, in his name, insurance, tax mot so on, and it has open driving and insurance for uk Ireland. Can I simply drive it as it's not mine and it's insured and taxed so on.

No to both, a car owned by someone outside the state can't be hired, loaned or driven by someone normally resident in the state*

*With one exception for business use, where you work for an employer established outside the state and they provide the vehicle principally for business use.

BorneTobyWilde

GM228 wrote: »

No to both, a car owned by someone outside the state can't be hired, loaned or driven by someone normally resident in the state*

*With one exception for business use, where you work for an employer established outside the state and they provide the vehicle principally for business use.

Says who. How does anyone hire a car or vehicle and drive around Europe.

BorneTobyWilde

It's a bit of an Irish thing, we are in EU, but make up our own rules with VRT and such. People hire cars all the time and travel within Europe, but not in Ireland...
Real obsession here with VRT car tax and car insurance. Rest of Europe makes no big deal of such things. A car is a need, not a luxury item to pay multiple taxes on.

GM228

GM228 wrote: »

Great source

That only applies if the "normal residence" of the vehicle owner is outside the state.

An Irish state resident normally resident here can't get an exemption unless in the scenario I outlined.

Source: The Finance Act S135 (as amended), and the Temporary Exemption from Registration of Vehicles Regulations 1993.

Sorry, it was the normally resident abroad I was referring to.

GM228 wrote: »

No to both, a car owned by someone outside the state can't be hired, loaned or driven by someone normally resident in the state*

*With one exception for business use, where you work for an employer established outside the state and they provide the vehicle principally for business use.

I thought the recent ruling means a car rental is not subject to vrt?

CiniO

GM228 wrote: »

No to both, a car owned by someone outside the state can't be hired, loaned or driven by someone normally resident in the state*

*With one exception for business use, where you work for an employer established outside the state and they provide the vehicle principally for business use.

So let's say someone resident in Ireland with Irish registered car drives up north and breaks down. Car left in garage for 2 weeks up there in the North (assume it's a big job) and garage provides hire car (obviously Northern registered).

Does that mean that this person can't drive that hire car back to Ireland?

What are the conseqences if they do and get caught (f.e. revenue checkpoint and revenue confirms he is resident in Ireland).
Can they impound the car?
What has to be done to claim it back?

GM228

Aubrey Spoiled Villain wrote: »

Sorry, it was the normally resident abroad I was referring to.

As I thought.

Aubrey Spoiled Villain wrote: »

I thought the recent ruling means a car rental is not subject to vrt?

No, it is basically in relation to issues surrounding paying the full amount of VRT upfront and the refund fees charged. No changes have been made to the law yet.

GM228

CiniO wrote: »

So let's say someone resident in Ireland with Irish registered car drives up north and breaks down. Car left in garage for 2 weeks up there in the North (assume it's a big job) and garage provides hire car (obviously Northern registered).

Does that mean that this person can't drive that hire car back to Ireland?

Strictly speaking yes.

CiniO wrote: »

What are the conseqences if they do and get caught (f.e. revenue checkpoint and revenue confirms he is resident in Ireland).
Can they impound the car?
What has to be done to claim it back?

They can seize the car and you commit an offence. For release of the vehicle you either agree to permanently remove the vehicle from the state or pay the VRT - in both circumstances you also have to pay a "compromise" payment.

CiniO

GM228 wrote: »

Strictly speaking yes.





They can seize the car and you commit an offence. For release of the vehicle you either agree to permanently remove the vehicle from the state or pay the VRT - in both circumstances you also have to pay a "compromise" payment.

Surely you can't pay VRT on rental car, as paying VRT requires registering a car in your name, which can't be done with rental.
So agreeing on permanently removing vehicle from the state would be the only option.

I wonder how they enforce it - would they believe you if you say - yes officer, I'm going to drive it up North first thing tomorrow morning.

liam7831

They had a multi agency checkpoint outside Aquatic Centre on Wed had two UK regs pulled in and were dipping for diesel

ELM327

liam7831 wrote: »

They had a multi agency checkpoint outside Aquatic Centre on Wed had two UK regs pulled in and were dipping for diesel

They are often on that road, customs, gardai and others.
I've seen the ARU audi at checkpoints there before.
One of the sites I'm based at isnt a million miles from there, of course I'd always have everything in date etc as I can't have my livelihood taken at the side of the road!

MugMugs

Aubrey Spoiled Villain wrote: »

I was being told that 8 years ago too and I never had any hassle even after 8 or 9 months driving around on the uk reg.

Recently brought a UK wagon in.

Was left in no doubt that my policy would be cancelled after 30 days if still on a foreign reg.

The finance act has tightened things up quire a bit.

Charles Babbage

CiniO wrote: »

Surely you can't pay VRT on rental car, as paying VRT requires registering a car in your name, which can't be done with rental.
So agreeing on permanently removing vehicle from the state would be the only option.

I wonder how they enforce it - would they believe you if you say - yes officer, I'm going to drive it up North first thing tomorrow morning.

They would just seize it and let Hertz drive it back.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

It's a bit of an Irish thing, we are in EU, but make up our own rules with VRT and such. People hire cars all the time and travel within Europe, but not in Ireland...
Real obsession here with VRT car tax and car insurance. Rest of Europe makes no big deal of such things. A car is a need, not a luxury item to pay multiple taxes on.

Why do all of these threads go around in circles with the same nonsense being repeated again and again? In every country you are required to drive a car registered in that place, try living in the Netherlands and driving a German car for instance.

This is a democracy, if you want something else to be taxed then propose higher taxes on something else and get your TD to vote for that. Motor tax is now being used to pay for water, which every other country pays for directly.

Isambard

Charles Babbage wrote: »

They would just seize it and let Hertz drive it back.




and they would charge you a lot of money for collecting it I imagine.

BorneTobyWilde

Charles Babbage wrote: »

They would just seize it and let Hertz drive it back.





Why do all of these threads go around in circles with the same nonsense being repeated again and again? In every country you are required to drive a car registered in that place, try living in the Netherlands and driving a German car for instance.

This is a democracy, if you want something else to be taxed then propose higher taxes on something else and get your TD to vote for that. Motor tax is now being used to pay for water, which every other country pays for directly.

It's about the right to drive a car that is not mine on a UK reg, if I happened to want or need too.
If brother owns a car and he lives in UK and always has, and car is insured taxed and MOTd in UK, and will never be on an Irish reg, as why would someone in UK put their car on an Irish reg just to enter country, and I am insured to drive it Europe wide then why can't I drive it in Ireland.

CiniO

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Why do all of these threads go around in circles with the same nonsense being repeated again and again? In every country you are required to drive a car registered in that place, try living in the Netherlands and driving a German car for instance.

You are not correct about that.
I'd say there's hardly any or even none countries which would have such strict regulations as Ireland.
F.e inability for Irish residents to rent a car abroad and drive it in Ireland sounds mad and sounds against EU free market idea.
Also inability to drive a foreign car borrowed from foreign resident also seems mad. If my brother comes from UK in his car, and we take it for a trip around Ireland, he can drive it, but I can't.
You won't find any of those nonsense in any other EU country.

Indeed some countries are strict about keeping foreign car for too long, but most allow up to 6 months without any hassle.

Some countries in the EU allow foreign car to be driven without any limits (like Poland) - if car is registered in the EU, and insured and tested, then you can drive it with no time limits no matter if you're polish resident or not.

GM228

CiniO wrote: »

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Why do all of these threads go around in circles with the same nonsense being repeated again and again? In every country you are required to drive a car registered in that place, try living in the Netherlands and driving a German car for instance.

You are not correct about that.

Charles Babbage is actually correct CiniO.

CiniO wrote: »

I'd say there's hardly any or even none countries which would have such strict regulations as Ireland.
F.e inability for Irish residents to rent a car abroad and drive it in Ireland sounds mad and sounds against EU free market idea.

But it's actually a provision of the EU Directive on tax exemptions within the community for certain means of transport temporarily imported and has been transposed by all EU states.

CiniO wrote: »

Also inability to drive a foreign car borrowed from foreign resident also seems mad. If my brother comes from UK in his car, and we take it for a trip around Ireland, he can drive it, but I can't.
You won't find any of those nonsense in any other EU country.

Again that's a very specific provision of EU law, a foreign registered vehicle can't be loaned to a member of a state in which the vehicle is temporarily imported into.

CiniO wrote: »

Indeed some countries are strict about keeping foreign car for too long, but most allow up to 6 months without any hassle.

Some countries in the EU allow foreign car to be driven without any limits (like Poland) - if car is registered in the EU, and insured and tested, then you can drive it with no time limits no matter if you're polish resident or not.

I think the issue is not what is/isn't allowed, rather the level of enforcement.

Take Poland for example which you mention, the same provisions have been transposed into Polish law via the Excise Duties Act 2008 .

CiniO

GM228 wrote: »

Charles Babbage is actually correct CiniO.





But it's actually a provision of the EU Directive on tax exemptions within the community for certain means of transport temporarily imported and has been transposed by all EU states.





Again that's a very specific provision of EU law, a foreign registered vehicle can't be loaned to a member of a state in which the vehicle is temporarily imported into.





I think the issue is not what is/isn't allowed, rather the level of enforcement.

Take Poland for example which you mention, the same provisions have been transposed into Polish law via the Excise Duties Act 2008 .

I must say that gave me plenty to read, and after one hour of reading I'm still trying to fully understand it.
Give me time until tomorrow or few more days to reply.

GM228

CiniO wrote: »

I must say that gave me plenty to read, and after one hour of reading I'm still trying to fully understand it.
Give me time until tomorrow or few more days to reply.

Enjoy the reading Law is often difficult to understand.

You can also look at the Excise Duty Exemptions 2004 (they have been replaced by a newer version, but I don't have a link for them - but similar provisions).

I'm not sure exactly what is written in them as I don't know Polish, but I know they are the linked legislation in the EUs EUR-Lex legislative directory which confirms they have implemented the provisions of EU Directive 83/182/EEC in Poland.

From the directive:-

83/182/EEC wrote:

Article 3

Temporary importation of certain means of transport for private use

Where a private vehicle, caravan, pleasure boat, private aircraft, tricycle or bicycle is imported temporarily, the item imported shall be exempt from the taxes specified in Article 1 for a period, continuous or otherwise, of not more than six months in any 12 months, provided that:

(a) the individual importing such goods:

(aa) has his normal residence in a Member State other than the Member State of temporary importation;

(bb) employs the means of transport in question for his private use;

(b) the said means of transport is not disposed of or hired out in the Member State of temporary importation or lent to a resident of that State. However, private vehicles belonging to a car-hire firm having its head office in the Community may be re-hired to non-residents with a view to being re-exported, if they are in the country as a result of a hire contract which ended in that country. They may also be returned by an employee of the car-hire firm to the Member State where they were originally hired, even if such employee is resident in the Member State of temporary importation.

Article 4

Temporary importation of private vehicles for business use

1. A private vehicle imported temporarily for business use shall be exempt from the taxes specified in Article 1, provided that:

(a) the individual importing the private vehicle:

(aa) has his normal residence in a Member State other than the Member State of temporary importation;

(bb) does not use the vehicle within the Member State of temporary importation in order to carry passengers for hire or material reward of any kind, or for the industrial and/or commercial transport of goods, whether for reward or not;

(b) the private vehicle is not disposed of, hired out or lent in the Member State of temporary importation;

(c) the private vehicle has been acquired or imported in accordance with the general conditions of taxation in force on the domestic market of the Member State of normal residence of the user and is not subject by reason of its exportation to any exemption from or refund of turnover tax, excise duty or any other consumption tax.

This condition shall be presumed to be satisfied if the private vehicle bears a standard registration plate of the Member State of registration, all types of temporary plate being excluded.

However, in the case of private vehicles registered in a Member State where the issue of standard registration plates is not conditional upon compliance with the general conditions of taxation in force on the domestic market, users shall be required to produce any appropriate evidence as proof of payment of consumption taxes.

2. The exemption provided for in paragraph 1 shall apply for a period, whether continuous or not, of: - seven months in any 12, in the case of private vehicles imported by one of the commercial intermediaries referred to in Article 3 of Directive 64/224/EEC (1),

- six months in any 12 in all other cases.

As per the directive, you can't loan or hire the vehicle you import to a resident in the member state of temporary importation, the person importing it must only use it themselves and a hire company can't hire to a resident of the country of temporary importation either.