DIY retail shop fit out

nino1

i am opening up a new business (a pharmac y) and have got quotes for a professional fit out.
Quotes have ranged from €85,000 to €270,000 for a 1500 sq ft unit.
when i ask for a breakdown of costs each jobs seems higher than i wiukd expect.
it looks like the fit out company basically just ask like a middleman, hiring painters tilers plumbers and charging a nice mark up.

im thinking i would be much better off hiring a tiler, plumber etc maybe doing some painting myself.

Would anyone be able to hassard a guess as to how much i could get it done for or what pitfalls to look out for?

jmBuildExt

nino1 wrote: »

i am opening up a new business (a pharmac y) and have got quotes for a professional fit out.
Quotes have ranged from €85,000 to €270,000 for a 1500 sq ft unit.
when i ask for a breakdown of costs each jobs seems higher than i wiukd expect.
it looks like the fit out company basically just ask like a middleman, hiring painters tilers plumbers and charging a nice mark up.

im thinking i would be much better off hiring a tiler, plumber etc maybe doing some painting myself.

Would anyone be able to hassard a guess as to how much i could get it done for or what pitfalls to look out for?

Yep that's what contractors get paid for.
The advantage of using one is that they will have people/sub contractors on hand to get the job done quickly.
You will have to co ordinate all of this yourself and it may take you a bit longer.

There may be experienced guys on here able to give you a price, but you will need to say exactly what it is you are having done. Maybe break it down as per one of the quotes you received.

the_pen_turner

how long is a piece of string
what's is your spec and what requirements have you


also that's a huge difference . are they working off a proper design and spec or going by what you say you want.
be careful with the cheaper quote. make sure you are comparing apples with apples


also I hope you see the irony of your post. their business model is the same as yours. your jus a middleman as well. nothing wrong with that

nino1

jmBuildExt wrote: »

Yep that's what contractors get paid for.
The advantage of using one is that they will have people/sub contractors on hand to get the job done quickly.
You will have to co ordinate all of this yourself and it may take you a bit longer.

There may be experienced guys on here able to give you a price, but you will need to say exactly what it is you are having done. Maybe break it down as per one of the quotes you received.

i dont actually have a unit yet so i drew up a site layout with measurements and requirements for my ideal unit.
i realise its difficult to quote for a virtual unit and for the sake of the quotes i assumed there wouldnt be much demolition work required.
i asked to be quoted for a relatively high spec but obviously this is somewhat subjective and may explain some of the variation.

nino1

the_pen_turner wrote: »

how long is


also I hope you see the irony of your post. their business model is the same as yours. your jus a middleman as well. nothing wrong with that

i dont have a problem at all with the business model and it has obvious benefits in terms of speed experience and expertise.

i guess with my job people have no option to go through a pharmacist as a "middleman" so trying to see if its worth while cutting out the middleman here and getting various jobs done independently.

i was quoted 5-6 weeks by fitters but if there was a significant savings it could be worth while taking an extra month or so.

tonythecamper

Some of them quotes might also be taking into account unexpected problems that might arrise. Its hard for contractors to give good quotes without a propper set of drawings and being able to view the premises.

Do you have a lot of experience in this field?

I have opened 2 retail outlets over the last 15 years and I wanted them to look well, not to a very high standard but decent. They cost in the region of €100K Yes I probably could have done it slightly cheaper arranging everything myself but that would lead to extra stress, more work on top of the preassure I was under of everything else. You then also need to make sure the work is up to top standards and painters etc.... can be trusted and reliable.

I have painted my house over the years and bedrooms etc.... but I couldnt do a business that these professionals do.

I know its a huge amount but I always feel its worth it. Just remember check references, look at previous work. Cheapest is not always the worst, highest is not always best.

Sleeper12

nino1 wrote:

im thinking i would be much better off hiring a tiler, plumber etc maybe doing some painting myself.

You can do this but it can be difficult.

The advantages with using the shop fitting company are for the most part you only need to deal with the one company. The buck stops with them. If you deal with several different tradesmen and something goes wrong they will blame each other. You may find it hard to get them back in weeks to come if something goes wrong.

Dealing with all the tradesmen yourself you become the foreman.

Can't give you any idea on costing but fitting out a shop is costly

the_pen_turner

the hardest part with getting separate trades in is organising when they arrive , too early and the space isn't ready for them , too late and your holding someone else up.
getting all the different trades on one page and gelling together is the hardest part.
the contractor is using guys that are used to following each other and know what each require.
making sure that each trade knows exactly what the other trades need and what they actually meant can be a real head wrecker.

personally I wouldn't go down that route for those reasons. being the Forman is a full time job. don't underestimate the serious work involved

antoinolachtnai

600 to 2000 / sqm does seem like a lot, but the lower end of that is not unreasonable.

Much like your own business, the problem is that you have to pay for people to stand around to wait for their time to come to practice their actual skill. You need a lot of people on-site so that you can get everything done fast.

Retail is a highly sophisticated business nowadays. You are in possibly one of the most sophisticated niches. It is expensive to get a fit out to compare to what the major players have.

If you are looking for a unit in an in-demand area, I would say that you might well find you have difficulty getting a tenancy if the landlord isn't confident you know what you are doing and have a reputable contractor. I would really look at buying an existing business that is up and running rather than putting something in from scratch.

If you are in a less in-demand area, it might make sense to try to get something cheap-and-cheerful done, but you'd still be better having some sort of main contractor.

BrokenArrows

When asking these "fit out" companies they are specialising in doing the work ASAP to get the shop opened.
They are cordinating everyone at the same time and making sure everything is doing.

If you are willing to project manage the job yourself and potentially have your opening delayed when things dont go according to plan then you can save yourself a lot of money.

nino1

BrokenArrows wrote: »

If you are willing to project manage the job yourself and potentially have your opening delayed when things dont go according to plan then you can save yourself a lot of money.

this is what im trying to figure out if it would be worthwhile.

if fit out is €80,000 and stock, equipment etc bring loan required over €100,000.
now if i take out full loan immediately and fit out company take 4 to 6 weeks i should be able to make rents and loan repayments okay as ill be taking in revenue reasonably soon but now i have large loan repayments every month.

if i was to get my dad to project manage (he's retired) i could continue to work Even if it took three months (€4,500 in rent) it could be worth it for considerable savings.

i guess my real question is how much cheaper could i get it done by cutting out the fit out company based on their €80,000 quote?
Could anyine hazard a ball park savings?
If its not substanial then it wouldnt be worth all the extra hassle.

Thanks for all the helpful replies so far.

Sleeper12

nino1 wrote:

i guess my real question is how much cheaper could i get it done by cutting out the fit out company based on their €80,000 quote? Could anyine hazard a ball park savings? If its not substanial then it wouldnt be worth all the extra hassle.

The only way to find that out is to get in each trade to quote.

Your dad will need to know who starts first. They all need to first fix but they will be tripping over each other if all there at the same time. After first fix plasterer or carpenter comes in. There's no guarantee that the plumber can do second fix without prior notice. You work out a schedule from the start but a two day delay might mean trades can't come back when you need them for second fix.

I've seen busy trades walk off a poorly managed job.

It might work out perfectly for you but project manager is a stressful job. One more thing to think about. The shop fitting company has trades on their books that fit out shops on a weekly basis. The plumber, electrician etc that you contact in might do one shop fit every year or two.

antoinolachtnai

Have you got an architect or designer who can advise you? That is really where you need to start. The quality is as important as the cost.

There certainly are ways you could structure this to make the costs lower whilst maintaining quality where it matters.

Will 20,000 really stock a shop of that size?

My own guess would be that the project management aspect of this is worth about 28,000 euros of the 85,000 euros. You could save that much maybe but you would still have to pay your relative and he might not get the job done as efficiently.

eeguy

You better have a concrete set of plans ready from the start to keep everyone on the same page. Once you get the ball rolling, every change or delay will add to the costs.

antoinolachtnai

One other thing - if the yearly rent is 18k, it is hard to see how it would be worth investing 5 years rent in the building. It might be, but it is hard to justify.

In light of this, I think you are doing the right thing to try to find a cheaper way to get up and running.

I would be very reluctant to invest more than two years rent, or maybe three years if it is stuff that will last for the long-term, upfront in a leasehold. That is not to say that you have not been given realistic prices by suppliers. It's just that financially it makes very little sense in light of the value of the unit. Presumably the value of the unit reflects the footfall.