Legality of landlord cutting external TV/internet wire

p to the e

Hi all. Our TV/internet went out a few months back and we called out Virgin to have a look. They said that they needed to put a new box on the wall behind the TV. Now here's the tricky part. The old cable was connected to the external cable down through the inside of the house but this new one was fixed to the outside of the house and inserted through a hole in the wall.

Our landlord is away most of the year in Spain and recently came back for a few weeks. Yesterday he told us to get back on to Virgin to get them out to refix the cable through the inside as, in his opinion, it doesn't look well. After a good 24 hours has passed he has told us that having talked with his solicitor he was advised to cut the wire which he said he will do tomorrow which, in his words, will only inconvenience us therefore the quicker we get it done the better for us.

Do we have any comeback here? It was a few months back so I have no idea whether we the Virgin installer asked us if it was okay or whether we consented to it.

Pkiernan

p to the e wrote: »

Hi all. Our TV/internet went out a few months back and we called out Virgin to have a look. They said that they needed to put a new box on the wall behind the TV. Now here's the tricky part. The old cable was connected to the external cable down through the inside of the house but this new one was fixed to the outside of the house and inserted through a hole in the wall.

Our landlord is away most of the year in Spain and recently came back for a few weeks. Yesterday he told us to get back on to Virgin to get them out to refix the cable through the inside as, in his opinion, it doesn't look well. After a good 24 hours has passed he has told us that having talked with his solicitor he was advised to cut the wire which he said he will do tomorrow which, in his words, will only inconvenience us therefore the quicker we get it done the better for us.

Do we have any comeback here? It was a few months back so I have no idea whether we the Virgin installer asked us if it was okay or whether we consented to it.

You had no permission to make alterations without the LLs permission. This is pretty standard in any lease. You need to call Virgin and have them reroute it.

p to the e

Thanks for the reply. I figured as much. We're living here about seven years and I'm pretty sure we didn't sign a lease. Think the guy might be off the books. But that's probably just getting into a long winded thing that's not worth it. Thanks

ED E

Dont get why a LL would care when not living there. They can always remove it upon re-occupation.

Gatling

Id get on to the RTB and ask them ,
He is essentially cutting a service your paying for , total over reaction imo

Id be holding my ground on this

jimmycrackcorm

ED E wrote:

Dont get why a LL would care when not living there. They can always remove it upon re-occupation.

Because it will be there if he moves back in and the op went be bothered sorting it out then.

Gatling wrote:

Id get on to the RTB and ask them , He is essentially cutting a service your paying for , total over reaction imo

As previous post, the op cannot make alterations to the property and the LL is correct to want it sorted the way it was originally. The LL isn't cutting the service, just undoing what the OP shouldn't have done.

the_syco

p to the e wrote: »

The old cable was connected to the external cable down through the inside of the house but this new one was fixed to the outside of the house and inserted through a hole in the wall.

I'm guessing you went from DSL to fibre? How sloppy does it look on the outside? Have seen a few half arsed jobs!

p to the e

the_syco wrote: »

I'm guessing you went from DSL to fibre? How sloppy does it look on the outside? Have seen a few half arsed jobs!

The cable comes from the roof and is tacked on down the front of the house. If it had been in a straight vertical line it mightn't have looked too bad but it's not. I wasn't there when he did it. My girlfriend was.

surrender monkey

p to the e wrote: »

The cable comes from the roof and is tacked on down the front of the house. If it had been in a straight vertical line it mightn't have looked too bad but it's not. I wasn't there when he did it. My girlfriend was.

A neighbours satellite dish is wired like this and to be honest it looks pretty crap. I wouldn't allow an install like that on my own house anyway so I can understand why your landlord is unhappy. If it is removed is there going to be a hole left in the facade of the house?

Tenigate

A tenant i once had did this. White cable from the roof and down the front of the house through a hole drilled into the wall. No idea how anyone would think it's acceptable to do this to someone's property.
The correct method would have been to pop it through a roof tile and take it through attic, but that would have taken additional time and expense.

the_syco

p to the e wrote: »

The cable comes from the roof and is tacked on down the front of the house. If it had been in a straight vertical line it mightn't have looked too bad but it's not. I wasn't there when he did it. My girlfriend was.

Jaysus. Don't blame the landlord wanting to get that mess gotten rid of. Is there any way you could tidy it up? Otherwise, snips!

Lumen

This wouldn't be a problem if the property was managed properly. Tenants don't want to be "making alterations", they just want internet access, which is perfectly reasonable. Landlord or agent should supervise/arrange repairs of this nature.

April 73

p to the e wrote: »

The cable comes from the roof and is tacked on down the front of the house. If it had been in a straight vertical line it mightn't have looked too bad but it's not. I wasn't there when he did it. My girlfriend was.

There's no way you should have allowed this to happen. The installers just wanted to go the easiest route with the least hassle for them, but you could have insisted that they do it differently.
The LL is right to want it removed/rerouted. Ask the LL for a couple of days grace to get it sorted & commit to having it rerouted.

April 73

Gatling wrote: »

Id get on to the RTB and ask them ,
He is essentially cutting a service your paying for , total over reaction imo

Id be holding my ground on this

Why would the RTB need to get involved? Is this not something that can easily be resolved between the tenant & LL by getting the cable rerouted to an acceptable position?

listermint

Not being funny here but virgin sky or whoever won't run cables internal in the house for their service chances of getting them to route them through the attic or next to none.

If the job is sploppy can request to get them to solve but the landlord is being an unreasonable arse here and needs to compromise. But of cop in and less whinging

The_Conductor

listermint wrote: »

Not being funny here but virgin sky or whoever won't run cables internal in the house for their service chances of getting them to route them through the attic or next to none.

If the job is sploppy can request to get them to solve but the landlord is being an unreasonable arse here and needs to compromise. But of cop in and less whinging

There were internal cables installed- it is not a reinstall- and it wouldn't have been reinventing the wheel to use the pre-existing cable to feed a new cable to the internal box (its whats normally done). The installer probably didn't want the risk of a cable breaking- and should have explained this to the OP when they were scoping the job.

If the OP does not restore the property- he/she will have restore it when they finally leave. The job sounds like a particularly half-arsed eyesore- that the Virgin guy got away with- because the OP wasn't at home, and his girlfriend didn't know any better to stop them.

The OP got conned by the Virgin installer.

Either way- the service to the internal box- will have to be restored, internally, as it was when the OP rented the property. It is not their prerogative to rewire services without the express permission of the landlord- and even then- they should ensure its done properly.

I did pretty much this exact job- for a 360Mb connection from Virgin- myself- and I'm not a cable installer. Its not rocket science- but it is a pain in the arse to do- and it does take time. The Virgin installer pulled a fast one- probably in the knowledge the landlord wasn't around, hadn't been asked- and wouldn't see it until they were well off the property. They got two out of three of their wishes.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Could someone please explain to me what exactly happened here as I'm confused by the posts.

Virgin took over AFAIK from NTL/UPC and connection points for this particular cable service are in most old and new properties with usually a downstairs and upstairs connection point. Indeed in apartments until Sky started offering management companies a communal dish, UPC was only option available to a tenant.

I can't understand why Virgin would need to do any external routing if these boxes with connection points routed internally are already in the house?

The_Conductor

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Could someone please explain to me what exactly happened here as I'm confused by the posts.

Virgin took over AFAIK from NTL/UPC and connection points for this particular cable service are in most old and new properties with usually a downstairs and upstairs connection point. Indeed in apartments until Sky started offering management companies a communal dish, UPC was only option available to a tenant.

I can't understand why Virgin would need to do any external routing if these boxes with connection points routed internally are already in the house?

Probably had an unshielded copper connection to the box in the living room- which degraded the signal for a high speed connection- necessitating a new cable feed to the router. Quite common issue.

davo10

Lumen wrote: »

This wouldn't be a problem if the property was managed properly. Tenants don't want to be "making alterations", they just want internet access, which is perfectly reasonable. Landlord or agent should supervise/arrange repairs of this nature.

The property is rented as viewed and had internet connection, why would you think it would be acceptable for someone to bore holes in the external wall and run unsightly cables down the front of it?

Lumen

davo10 wrote: »

The property is rented as viewed and had internet connection, why would you think it would be acceptable for someone to bore holes in the external wall and run unsightly cables down the front of it?

I don't think it is "acceptable" at all!

Do you want your tenants overseeing some randomer with a massive drill making holes in the fabric of your property? Hell no!

Walls are increasingly complex things.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

I don't think it is "acceptable" at all!

Do you want your tenants overseeing some randomer with a massive drill making holes in the fabric of your property? Hell no!

Walls are increasingly complex things.

How would the LL have known he needed to manage the install if he wasn't told it was happening?

elperello

LL and tenant might consider sitting down and reaching an agreement to sort this so both are happy.
Suggested Pre-conditions
1 Tenant forgets about legalities
2 LL puts away the snips

George Sunsnow

Op
How far will that cable go if you undid it and re routed it yourself?
Either do that or hire a professional to do it,you’ll be waiting ages for virgin I’d Imagine
So if you don’t want a loss of service..

Tenigate

George Sunsnow wrote: »

Op
How far will that cable go if you undid it and re routed it yourself?..

This is the solution. Hire a professional to tidy up the cables. I got it done when i had to move my tv from one side of the living room to the other.. Cash in hand nixer for tv guy. Cost €150 or so incl materials (3 cables, covers, etc).., and it was a simple job as only 1 floor in the house. That's the price of doing a job properly.

Cuddlesworth

Lumen wrote: »

Walls are increasingly complex things.

Having drilled holes into many walls, I'm not sure where you are going with that.

lawred2

p to the e wrote: »

The cable comes from the roof and is tacked on down the front of the house. If it had been in a straight vertical line it mightn't have looked too bad but it's not. I wasn't there when he did it. My girlfriend was.

That's shoddy and it's no wonder the landlord isn't impressed.

Lumen

Eden Nutritious Uranus wrote: »

How would the LL have known he needed to manage the install if he wasn't told it was happening?

He wouldn't have. Maybe I misunderstood the OP, it's not clear about exactly what the flow of communication was, but it seems like the landlord lives abroad and doesn't have anyone on the ground to manage the property.

I've seen cable installers work. They don't give a ****. Big hammer drill, two foot long masonry bit, shove it through the wall, route cable, bit of filler if you're lucky. There's no way they're going to do any difficult cable routing unless forced to do so, and tenants are generally not experienced enough to deal with this authoritatively.

This should be dealt with like plumbing or electrics. I wouldn't want a tenant overseeing those either.

p to the e

So my girlfriend has got on to the landlord. She's better dealing with him than I am and we've made it clear that we're currently dealing with it. I think that was his worry. That he'd go off back to Spain and we'd just leave it as is. He says he'll forego the snipping for now. This is what irked me. We had every intention of putting it right but he had a complete knee jerk reaction which was to say he was cutting the wire a day after telling us to get it fixed.

What's actually funny is that my landlord lives next door when he's home for a few weeks and lives with his wife/partner. Because they're away for most of the year he didn't see the point of paying for an internet connection. By his own admission he wouldn't know how to use it (he's late 60's/ early 70's) but his wife uses it. So about a year ago she arrived at our door asking could she use our WiFi and she's been using it ever since. So if he had have cut it off then no more internet for his wife.

Lumen

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Having drilled holes into many walls, I'm not sure where you are going with that.

This sort of thing.

JimmyMcGill

p to the e wrote: »

So my girlfriend has got on to the landlord. She's better dealing with him than I am and we've made it clear that we're currently dealing with it. I think that was his worry. That he'd go off back to Spain and we'd just leave it as is. He says he'll forego the snipping for now. This is what irked me. We had every intention of putting it right but he had a complete knee jerk reaction which was to say he was cutting the wire a day after telling us to get it fixed.

What's actually funny is that my landlord lives next door when he's home for a few weeks and lives with his wife/partner. Because they're away for most of the year he didn't see the point of paying for an internet connection. By his own admission he wouldn't know how to use it (he's late 60's/ early 70's) but his wife uses it. So about a year ago she arrived at our door asking could she use our WiFi and she's been using it ever since. So if he had have cut it off then no more internet for his wife.

Probably didn't even know until he said it the wife that he was going to chop next doors cable. She then bawked saying how her internet connection would be down also.

I'd be changing my WEP key when this all blows over. See how he likes them apples.

Graham

Lumen wrote: »

This sort of thing.

Just needs a bigger bit

Cuddlesworth

Lumen wrote: »

This sort of thing.

Lets be honest here, 90% of Irish houses are brick, plasterboard and badly fitted doubled glazed windows.

The_Conductor

Tenigate wrote: »

This is the solution. Hire a professional to tidy up the cables. I got it done when i had to move my tv from one side of the living room to the other.. Cash in hand nixer for tv guy. Cost €150 or so incl materials (3 cables, covers, etc).., and it was a simple job as only 1 floor in the house. That's the price of doing a job properly.

Nope- this is a fresh wire going to the junction box outside- its a lot more than you moving your TV from one side of the room to the other. Its definitely a couple of hours work- and I'd say you could multiply your 150 by two or three- to get a ballpark figure of what it might cost you.

If the installer had done a tidy job at the outset instead of a rush job- this whole situation would be moot.

The_Conductor

JimmyMcGill wrote: »

I'd be changing my WEP key when this all blows over. See how he likes them apples.

WEP? Lol- I don't know when I last heard of someone using WEP.

There is no need to declare civil war on the landlord and his wife- esp. if they're elderly and living next door. Life is too short.

According to the OP- the installer did a complete botch job- the cable isn't even slung in a straight line- and if it were their own house, they'd be annoyed over it. Virgin screwed up- if they'd done it right- no-one would care one iota- instead they did a shoddy looking poor job- and did a legger- with the OP's girlfriend the only one at home- and none the wiser about the job they did..........

One way or the other- the OP is going to have to sort it- its more a matter of whether this is going to be now- or at a later date.

elperello

p to the e wrote: »

So my girlfriend has got on to the landlord. She's better dealing with him than I am and we've made it clear that we're currently dealing with it. I think that was his worry. That he'd go off back to Spain and we'd just leave it as is. He says he'll forego the snipping for now. This is what irked me. We had every intention of putting it right but he had a complete knee jerk reaction which was to say he was cutting the wire a day after telling us to get it fixed.

What's actually funny is that my landlord lives next door when he's home for a few weeks and lives with his wife/partner. Because they're away for most of the year he didn't see the point of paying for an internet connection. By his own admission he wouldn't know how to use it (he's late 60's/ early 70's) but his wife uses it. So about a year ago she arrived at our door asking could she use our WiFi and she's been using it ever since. So if he had have cut it off then no more internet for his wife.

That's good news, you can't beat a bit of diplomacy
Just get a nice tidy job done now and all should be well.
Keeping his oh happy with the WiFi would be a good move.

Tenigate

The_Conductor wrote: »

Nope- this is a fresh wire going to the junction box outside- its a lot more than you moving your TV from one side of the room to the other. Its definitely a couple of hours work- and I'd say you could multiply your 150 by two or three- to get a ballpark figure of what it might cost you.

My tv guy did a pretty good job to be fair. New cables were required as the existing ones werent long enough. It took over an hour, maybe 2. He's an old chap (who wouldnt have a clue about internet cables), lives locally, and it was cash in hand.

I think you're about right when you say at least €300 to rectify the mess Virgin made. But if virgin aren't willing to do a good job, LL is entitled to tear out their handywork and charge op to repair damage..

Well looks like the op got things sorted anyway

Tenigate

The_Conductor wrote: »

WEP? Lol- I don't know when I last heard of someone using WEP..

Jesus WEP.

WPS offers much better security.

Ms Doubtfire1

p to the e wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I figured as much. We're living here about seven years and I'm pretty sure we didn't sign a lease. Think the guy might be off the books. But that's probably just getting into a long winded thing that's not worth it. Thanks

oh man..if the LL is not resident in ireland you might be liable to withholding tax. do you pay to an irish bank account?

p to the e

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

oh man..if the LL is not resident in ireland you might be liable to withholding tax. do you pay to an irish bank account?

We do yeah.

The_Conductor

p to the e wrote: »

We do yeah.

If the landlord has a residence here- and is retired- so his pension and Irish rental income is his only income- he may very well be tax resident here- technically the OP should be deducting witholding tax from the gross rent and submitting it to Revenue- however, its not clearcut that the landlord is non-resident for tax purposes.

The setup that the OP described where the landlord has kept a house next door (or a few doors up) that they stay in when they're in the country- raises a few question marks.