Politicians robbing from us again

Dr Brown

The Taoiseach's pay is set to jump by a massaive 21,000 Euro.

Instead of varadkar going after "dole cheats" he might want to look closer to home at Politicians who riding the Irish tax payer.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tds-to-get-two-salary-rises-worth-more-than-3600-under-new-deal-36187030.html

Jim Bob Scratcher

Fookin Moochers!

Your Face

He needs it for concert tickets.

Mena

So after this he’ll only be on 211k? That’s pretty low for that type of role.

Not everyone’s just out of college and trying to start up their career. Non story.

Donald Trump

Losers

21k? Wouldn't wipe me hole with that.

I've loads of money. Multi billionaire. Take that Tea-shock Leo

Canis Lupus

Donald Trump wrote: »

Losers

21k? Wouldn't wipe me hole with that.

I've loads of money. Multi billionaire. Take that Tea-shock Leo

All that money can't make your hands bigly.

RobbingBandit

Donald Trump wrote: »

Losers

21k? Wouldn't wipe me hole with that.

I've loads of money. Multi billionaire. Take that Tea-shock Leo

shouldn't you be bombing something el presidente

Guy:Incognito

It almost seems like there might be more to this than the way your making out op........ almost like Leo varadkar didn't just wake up yesterday and say "do you know what, i think ill give myself a €21k pay rise " and instead its some form of incremental increase over the next few years that's linked to a pay deal of some sort negotiated by a large group of civil servants................

NIMAN

He could always make a point and refuse his pay rise.

jh79

NIMAN wrote: »

He could always make a point and refuse his pay rise.

Or even better get rid of increments all together.

VinLieger

jh79 wrote: »

Or even better get rid of increments all together.

Ahhh now how do you expect civil servants to be able to do their jobs if their arent guaranteed yearly increments regardless of job performance or attendance?

BalcombeSt4

Again? So you mean they stopped for a bit?

Hooks Golf Handicap

All well & good to bash them but it's true that the top echelon would earn a multiple of a TD's salary had they stayed in the Private Sector.

I believe Pashcal was high up the executive salary in a big Pharma before he entered politics for example.

Hooks Golf Handicap

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

All well & good to bash them but it's true that the top echelon would earn a multiple of a TD's salary had they stayed in the Private Sector.

I believe Pashcal was high up the executive salary in a big Pharma before he entered politics for example.

And they'll make plenty after they leave public office. Association with those that believe that they did a good job while in office; along with the tv shows, books to be written etc. will net them a tidy figure for a few years or more afterwards.

A few years earning something similar to the average person in Ireland wouldn't hurt them much.

Hooks Golf Handicap

Deleted User wrote: »

And they'll make plenty after they leave public office. Association with those that believe that they did a good job while in office; along with the tv shows, books to be written etc. will net them a tidy figure for a few years or more afterwards.

A few years earning something similar to the average person in Ireland wouldn't hurt them much.

I know Obama earned more in a 45 min speech to Wall Street this year than he did in any entire year of his Presidency.

Gunmonkey

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It almost seems like there might be more to this than the way your making out op........ almost like Leo varadkar didn't just wake up yesterday and say "do you know what, i think ill give myself a €21k pay rise " and instead its some form of incremental increase over the next few years that's linked to a pay deal of some sort negotiated by a large group of civil servants................

Ah cmon now that kinda talk belongs in Conspiracy Theories.

Wheeliebin30

If you're unhappy you could you know maybe vote someone in next time?

Instead of constantly giving out.

Yep it's that simple.

Hande hoche!

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

I know Obama earned more in a 45 min speech to Wall Street this year than he did in any entire year of his Presidency.

Lucrative book deals help ease to return to citizen life.

Widdershins

NIMAN wrote: »

He could always make a point and refuse his pay rise.

Quite. I might gain some respect if he did.

BalcombeSt4

I wouldn't want or take more than 2 grand if I was in that job.

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

He could always make a point and refuse his pay rise.

Why on earth would anyone refuse a pay rise? I wouldn't and I'm pretty certain no sane person would.

He is running the country, 211k is hardly above what you would expect to earn, in fact its quite a lot less than I'd want for running a country. Someone with a similar level of responsibility in the private sector would be earning millions.

jh79 wrote: »

Or even better get rid of increments all together.

Typical public service bashing bull s*it.

Wheeliebin30

NIMAN wrote: »

He could always make a point and refuse his pay rise.

Jesus I wonder sometimes.

Sonics2k

Mena wrote: »

So after this he’ll only be on 211k? That’s pretty low for that type of role.

Not everyone’s just out of college and trying to start up their career. Non story.

That's not that low at all actually. The UK Prime Minister earns about £144k per year.

Considering our tiny population, Varadkar is massively overpaid.

Dr Brown

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

If you're unhappy you could you know maybe vote someone in next time?

Instead of constantly giving out.

Yep it's that simple.

Nobody voted for Varadkar hes an unelected Taoiseach.

He should not be able to make any major decisions without a mandate from public.

amcalester

Dr Brown wrote: »

Nobody voted for Varadkar hes an unelected Taoiseach.

He should not be able to make any major decisions without a mandate from public.

He was elected the same way as every other Taoiseach.

baylah17

Dr Brown wrote: »

Nobody voted for Varadkar hes an unelected Taoiseach.

He should not be able to make any major decisions without a mandate from public.

under our election system we never never vote for a Taoiseach, we vote for TD's who in turn elect a Taoiseach.

jh79

Riley Worried Piecemeal wrote: »

Why on earth would anyone refuse a pay rise? I wouldn't and I'm pretty certain no sane person would.

He is running the country, 211k is hardly above what you would expect to earn, in fact its quite a lot less than I'd want for running a country. Someone with a similar level of responsibility in the private sector would be earning millions.



Typical public service bashing bull s*it.

The public services deserve a bashing. There is no justification for pay increases irrespective of performance.

Boom_Bap

People in employment get pay rise.
Sure I suppose the OP always rejects a salary bump.

cnocbui

Mena wrote: »

So after this he’ll only be on 211k? That’s pretty low for that type of role.

Not everyone’s just out of college and trying to start up their career. Non story.

I think that's about 50% overpaid when you consider Theresa May is on €169 K, Emanuel Macron is on €181 K, Angela Merkel is on €226 K and Justin Trudeau is on €234 K.

Guy:Incognito

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

I wouldn't want or take more than 2 grand if I was in that job.

40 quid a week to run the country, bargain.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

The public services deserve a bashing. There is no justification for pay increases irrespective of performance.

Of course there is justification for it, every year you gain experience and knowledge along with increasing costs of living the increments are essential.

It's common the the private sector to get annual pay increases without any improved performance also I see it happen regulalry it's called being a good employer.

jh79

Riley Worried Piecemeal wrote: »

Of course there is justification for it, every year you gain experience and knowledge along with increasing costs of living the increments are essential.

It's common the the private sector to get annual pay increases without any improved performance also I see it happen regulalry it's called being a good employer.

In the private sector your increases depend on your performance and the companies.

In the public sector it's a guaranteed pay increase irrespective of yours or the "companies" performance.

server down

Riley Worried Piecemeal wrote: »

Of course there is justification for it, every year you gain experience and knowledge along with increasing costs of living the increments are essential.

It's common the the private sector to get annual pay increases without any improved performance also I see it happen regulalry it's called being a good employer.

private sector increases are performance related. It is literally called a performance review.

server down

server down wrote: »

private sector increases are performance related. It is literally called a performance review.

I have experience of lots of people working in the private sector who pretty much get an standard increase every year like I get my increment without doing anything except plod along as they always did.

Even many private sector people have a minimum bonus, so regardless of performance you get a certain amount of bonus and bonuses tend to be tied to company performance mostly rather than individuals.

There really is no place for performance related pay in the majority of the public sector, people are already very underpaid and the last thing that's needed is more hurdles. At least with increments you are guaranteed a small increase every year.

jh79

Riley Worried Piecemeal wrote: »

I have experience of lots of people working in the private sector who pretty much get an standard increase every year like I get my increment without doing anything except plod along as they always did.

Even many private sector people have a minimum bonus, so regardless of performance you get a certain amount of bonus and bonuses tend to be tied to company performance mostly rather than individuals.

My increase is based on my performance review and the profitability of the company.

If profits drop or my performance drops i get a smaller or no increase.

What would you have to do to miss out on an increment? Kill someone?

jh79

Riley Worried Piecemeal wrote: »

I have experience of lots of people working in the private sector who pretty much get an standard increase every year like I get my increment without doing anything except plod along as they always did.

Even many private sector people have a minimum bonus, so regardless of performance you get a certain amount of bonus and bonuses tend to be tied to company performance mostly rather than individuals.

There really is no place for performance related pay in the majority of the public sector, people are already very underpaid and the last thing that's needed is more hurdles. At least with increments you are guaranteed a small increase every year.

17% higher than the private sector, and that's not including pensions and job security, according to the ESRI.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

What would you have to do to miss out on an increment? Kill someone?

No, stop doing my work to the required standard and I'd be out the door. I'm not permanent like a very large number of people in the public service. Even if you are permanent its a myth that you don't have to perform to an acceptable standard. Don't let that stop your little bashing mission though.

jh79 wrote: »

17% higher than the private sector, and that's not including pensions and job security, according to the ESRI.

These comparisons are nothing but using stats to try rile up people against the public sector.

The private sector has a far higher proportion of low skilled, unqualified workers than the public sector. The majority of public sector jobs require high skills, university degrees or higher, doing crucial jobs in higher pressure environments.

Like for like the public sector is underpaid. I could probably double my money moving from public to private sector along with getting many more perks (and I will make the move at some point).

jh79

Riley Worried Piecemeal wrote: »

No, stop doing my work to the required standard and I'd be out the door. I'm not permanent like a very large number of people in the public service. Even if you are permanent its a myth that you don't have to perform to an acceptable standard. Don't let that stop your little bashing mission though.



These comparisons are nothing but using stats to try rile up people against the public sector.

The private sector has a far higher proportion of low skilled, unqualified workers than the public sector. The majority of public sector jobs require high skills, university degrees or higher, doing crucial jobs in higher pressure environments.

Like for like the public sector is underpaid. I could probably double my money moving from public to private sector along with getting many more perks (and I will make the move at some point).

What a load of nonsense. The "stats" from the ESRI certainly hold more weight than your fanciful observations.

The figure form the ESRI takes into account qualifications. It's a fact ye are over paid by 17% when compared to the private sector. That figure balloons if pensions are added.

jh79

Riley Worried Piecemeal wrote: »

No, stop doing my work to the required standard and I'd be out the door. I'm not permanent like a very large number of people in the public service. Even if you are permanent its a myth that you don't have to perform to an acceptable standard. Don't let that stop your little bashing mission though.

55 out of 37,000 or 0.15% !

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/just-55-of-37000-civil-servants-have-lost-their-jobs-in-the-past-decade-35739888.html

Less than 1% needing improvement.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/civil-service-performance-review-deemed-failure-as-majority-pass-1.1621423

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

The figure form the ESRI takes into account qualifications. It's a fact ye are over paid by 17% when compared to the private sector. That figure balloons if pensions are added.

As I said, anyone I have worked with who has moved to the private sector has close to if not more than doubled their salary. The public sector in general are underpaid for the work they do.

jh79 wrote: »

55 out of 37,000 or 0.15% !

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/just-55-of-37000-civil-servants-have-lost-their-jobs-in-the-past-decade-35739888.html

Nonsense of the highest order as it does not even nearly represent the reality. It does not take into account those on contract who have not had their contract renewed or were not made permanent etc and this is a lot of people.

Also whats so great about firing people? Its a pretty sh*t thing to want to happen to people.

jh79 wrote: »

Less than 1% needing improvement.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/civil-service-performance-review-deemed-failure-as-majority-pass-1.1621423

Sounds exactly like the performance reviews I know go on in the private sector, noting more than a paper exercise. Also why do you assume the vast majority of people are not doing their job to a satisfactory level?

server down

Dr Brown wrote: »

Nobody voted for Varadkar hes an unelected Taoiseach.

He should not be able to make any major decisions without a mandate from public.

I think there should be a civics test every few years, and you have to pass to vote.

"Was Leo elected Taoiseach" would be a good question.

server down

Riley Worried Piecemeal wrote: »

Sounds exactly like the performance reviews I know go on in the private sector, noting more than a paper exercise. Also why do you assume the vast majority of people are not doing their job to a satisfactory level?

The latter becuase the service provided ( for instance health) is a mess.

And you are wrong about performace reviews in the private sector. Every year some people will not get raises, and that kind of performer will not ever get a raise again without significant improvement. They generally leave.

Jawgap

jh79 wrote: »

17% higher than the private sector, and that's not including pensions and job security, according to the ESRI.

Hmmm.....I always wonder where they get their stats from? Plus they never seem to break them down by profession or role?

I left the PS just over 2 years ago for a more financially rewarding position with a private sector firm.....my salary is a little bit more than what I was getting in the PS, but the 'ancillary' element of the remuneration package makes it far superior to anything the PS could (or should offer).

I enjoyed my time in the PS - professionally speaking it was probably more rewarding than the work I do now, but there is only so long you can put satiating professional curiosity over financial realities.

Incidentally, herself also left the PS - about 5 years ago - why? More money. And I know at least half-a-dozen other people who did likewise in the last 2 to 3 years.

I don't doubt that certain admin jobs are well rewarded in the PS, but once you get to mid and late career professionals (and the concomitant expertise they possess) the financial offerings are better in the private sector, in my view.

Jawgap

server down wrote: »

The latter becuase the service provided ( for instance health) is a mess.

And you are wrong about performace reviews in the private sector. Every year some people will not get raises, and that kind of performer will not ever get a raise again without significant improvement. They generally leave.

Health is a mess because the politicians won't allow the tough decisions to be made and implemented.

We could solve our health service issues and create a very decent health service in 5 years if you took the politics - and especially the local politics - out of it.

JP Liz V1

He has down f#ck all to warrant a pay rise, pay decrease more like, useless Social Protection and Health minister

jh79

Jawgap wrote: »

Hmmm.....I always wonder where they get their stats from? Plus they never seem to break them down by profession or role?

I left the PS just over 2 years ago for a more financially rewarding position with a private sector firm.....my salary is a little bit more than what I was getting in the PS, but the 'ancillary' element of the remuneration package makes it far superior to anything the PS could (or should offer).

I enjoyed my time in the PS - professionally speaking it was probably more rewarding than the work I do now, but there is only so long you can put satiating professional curiosity over financial realities.

Incidentally, herself also left the PS - about 5 years ago - why? More money. And I know at least half-a-dozen other people who did likewise in the last 2 to 3 years.

I don't doubt that certain admin jobs are well rewarded in the PS, but once you get to mid and late career professionals (and the concomitant expertise they possess) the financial offerings are better in the private sector, in my view.

A few family members did the switch in the opposite direction. Love the civil service and its relaxed attitude to work and generous pay. Biggest surprise to them was how hard done by the staff feel given how easy they have it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Jawgap

jh79 wrote: »

A few family members did the switch in the opposite direction. Love the civil service and its relaxed attitude to work and generous pay. Biggest surprise to them was how hard done by the staff feel given how easy they have it.

Generous? I don't think do......or certainly in my area of expertise. When I went into the PS (about 2006) the salary for the job was at about the 66th percentile for the role, so yes it was generous......over the years it dropped and dropped.....I bailed when it hit about the 40th percentile.

Now, I wouldn't say it's generous......fair perhaps but not generous......

.....now the consultancy fees they're paying to the firm I work for......they're generous

arayess

Dr Brown wrote: »

The Taoiseach's pay is set to jump by a massaive 21,000 Euro.

Instead of varadkar going after "dole cheats" he might want to look closer to home at Politicians who riding the Irish tax payer.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tds-to-get-two-salary-rises-worth-more-than-3600-under-new-deal-36187030.html

varadkar is paid what the job offers , he is actually doing a job. If you want that money yourself you can always enter politics and run against him and if you think the job pays too much , you can lobby against it and/or enter politics and do it that way.

the dole / welfare cheats are stealing and taking what isn't theirs.

there is a huge difference - man being over paid isn't equal to people stealing.

billyhead

server down wrote: »

private sector increases are performance related. It is literally called a performance review.

Which also takes place in the civil service every 6 and 12 months. Wasters have been let go.

jh79

billyhead wrote: »

Which also takes place in the civil service every 6 and 12 months. Wasters have been let go.

What percentage got the minimum to get an increment?