unfinished dental work

justfillmein

hi, this is my first post so i'm sorry if it is in the wrong section.

bit long,
but in 2010 i started treatment for braces both upper and lower. i was initially told 1year-1.5years.
i felt it would take more like 1.5-2years. anyway things seemed to be going well at the start, but after maybe 1.5years, with obvious no were near finished teeth, my dentist start saying, they should be finished by xmas. then by the following summer. then by the next xmas, and so on and on..

i had the top set removed at one point, and i was fitted with the retainer that is glued to the back of the teeth to hold them in place. the teeth had started to move a short time later and after a few months it was clear that i would need a new set of braces put back on!
supposedly for 2 or 3 months.
it end up being on for another 1.5years, and after me constantly asking when it would be finished. when it did come off, i was left without a retainer(the gum shield type) for nearly a week. within maybe two days the teeth has started to slip out of place.

the retainer then wasnt helping hold the teeth in place, i could feel a certain tooth 'pooping' out of its place every time i washed my face(from just rubbing my face) and every time i ate something.
then the retainer goes back on at night and that tooth was pushed back into its place. only to slip again next morning when removed. so basically the tooth was back and forth ,and back and forth, for a long time while using that retainer. (i actually start having dreams about my teeth/tooth falling out. thats how much it was bothering me at that stage).

i felt there was still overcrowding on that one side, which was why the tooth was being squished out of it place all the time. i kept saying that to the dentist, but he said everything was fine and sometimes some people take longer than others. he's the dentist, he'd know better than me right!?


while this was all going on over FIVE years, i felt that the bottom teeth were barely even getting a look in. he was just using my appointment time trying to figure what to do with top problem.
so i start pressing for when the bottom would be finished. it was just brushed off up until now whenever i asked. he then start telling me each time, 'two more months', 'two more months'... by the end of our time together i just laughed in his face when he said it.

i was getting really frustrated now and felt i wasnt getting anywhere with him, so i got on to the dental counsel who advised me to ask him for a clear plan, and to give him 6more months to follow through.
also i was to ask for dentist to get me a second opinion. i asked a few times and nothing.
so after that six months was up, on the last appointment i had with him, i asked him clearly when the bottom would be finished and he said two more YEARS!!
i nearly f*king started to cry in that moment. i think i was left speachless.
and decided i wasnt stepping foot in there again.

got back on to dental counsel and they advised to write a letter to say how i felt i was let down with treatment and that i wanted a refund.
that was last year. i never got around to writing the letter because first of all i'm not great with official letters like that, so i wasnt sure how to start it, but mostly because i was sick to death with the whole situation and i just didnt want to deal with it anymore. there is actually more to the story too.

sorry if that is already too much written out.

so what i want to know is,

A:does anybody know if now after maybe 10months, it is too late to ask for the refund?
B: if offered, could i refuse new treatment from them even if it was with a different dentist? there is no way i'd be willing to be treated again in their practice. not after how i feel this was all handled.

Thanks

the_syco

justfillmein wrote: »

hi, this is my first post so i'm sorry if it is in the wrong section.

bit long,
but in 2010 i started treatment for braces both upper and lower. i was initially told 1year-1.5years.
i felt it would take more like 1.5-2years. anyway things seemed to be going well at the start, but after maybe 1.5years, with obvious no were near finished teeth, my dentist start saying, they should be finished by xmas. then by the following summer. then by the next xmas, and so on and on..

How many times were said braces tightened?

justfillmein

the_syco wrote: »

How many times were said braces tightened?

once a month for top braces.
bottom were not looked at each time, he kept saying they were fine and they were to be moved slowly. there were just the front five or six teeth on the bottom that needed to be corrected. one tooth was removed and there is two gaps that were never joined/closed. they were the teeth he said in the last visit, that would take another two years to close

davo10

justfillmein wrote: »

once a month for top braces.
bottom were not looked at each time, he kept saying they were fine and they were to be moved slowly. there were just the front five or six teeth on the bottom that needed to be corrected. one tooth was removed and there is two gaps that were never joined/closed. they were the teeth he said in the last visit, that would take another two years to close

Were you attending an orthodontist or a general dentist for ortho treatment?

justfillmein

davo10 wrote: »

Were you attending an orthodontist or a general dentist for ortho treatment?

orthodontist, who apparently had the best up to date equipment in his practice in his home country with years and years of experience.

i'm not just bashing because of the amount of time it dragged on for. i do understand that not everyone's treatment timewise can be predicted at the start, and i accepted that for a long time, but there was clearly something wrong with whatever job he was doing. i requested a second opinion aswel but never got it

davo10

An orthodontist will be able to clearly outline why orthodontic treatment has not progressed in the timeline envisaged when treatment commenced. Short roots, poor bone support, poor oral hygiene can mean that too much tension on the wires can cause reduction in teeth stability post treatment so the teeth must be moved slowly. Initial movements in the first 6-12 months are very noticeable, it's the "fine tuning" at the end to close the spaces/contacts that can be frustratingly slow. Haste to finish treatment can lead to too much tension on the appliances, your teeth look great when the appliances are removed but they are mobile and regression can quickly undo all the hard work.

It sounds to me like there has been a breakdown in communication. You say in his "home country", is this a case where the orthodontist is flying in and out? Appliances are usually adjusted every 4-6 weeks, were the periods between your appointments longer?

justfillmein

davo10 wrote: »

An orthodontist will be able to clearly outline why orthodontic treatment has not progressed in the timeline envisaged when treatment commenced. Short roots, poor bone support, poor oral hygiene can mean that too much tension on the wires can cause reduction in teeth stability post treatment so the teeth must be moved slowly. Initial movements in the first 6-12 months are very noticeable, it's the "fine tuning" at the end to close the spaces/contacts that can be frustratingly slow. Haste to finish treatment can lead to too much tension on the appliances, your teeth look great when the appliances are removed but they are mobile and regression can quickly undo all the hard work.

It sounds to me like there has been a breakdown in communication. You say in his "home country", is this a case where the orthodontist is flying in and out? Appliances are usually adjusted every 4-6 weeks, were the periods between your appointments longer?

he said i 'have strong irish bones'
i wouldnt know about whether roots, bones or hygiene were the main problem because there was definitly a lack of communication. his answer was mostly, 'yes,yes, everything is going fine'.
i understand frustratinly slow, but after more than 5years slow, with the same problem going round in circles?? and told another two years more on top of that would be needed!
after second set of braces on top teeth was removed, he wanted to put the bar thats glued to top of palate on, but the teeth to me were not shaped/curved properly, so i said i wanted a gum shield type retainer first to shape them before the bar was fitted. he was happy to do that.
yes, he was flying in and out. treatment were every month but there were some missed appointments due to illness(from him) and maybe the odd one if i was snotty, but mostly everything followed through

davo10

Reads like treatment did not go as smoothly as both of you would have liked. A second opinion is advisable, but if your treatment is challenging then your second orthodontist may give you news you don't want to hear. Managing patient expectation is difficult, patients often expect perfection, sometimes that cannot be achieved no matter who is doing the treatment and how long is spent on it. I don't do orthodontics but like many dentists who provide cosmetic treatments, I often see patients unhappy with the appearance of their teeth post ortho treatment who want me to place veneers to give them the "Hollywood" smile. I have to look them in the eye and tell them their teeth look great and the minor improvements they are looking for will be at the expense/risk of the long term health of their teeth.

Get a second opinion, see if it is actually possible to improve on their appearance without risking the health of your teeth.

PM me your location, I might be able to point you in the right direction.

justfillmein

thanks for taking the time out to get on get back to me davo10, i really appreciate it.
i'm definitley not nit picking with my teeth though, by now i would be happy if there were just some slight imperfections, that would still be better than what they were to begin with. but actually, there is still a bit of work that is not near finished..

sorry just want to ask you quick, do you have any advice on how to go about getting money refunded? it was near 3000euro, and to think of having to pay that again...

Xterminator

Hi Op

Im not a dentist, just a consumer! Why would you think you would get a refund, and a full refund at that?

you paid for a service and the service was provided. you failed to get the second opinion, when advised to do so. you then failed to write a letter of complain in a timely fashion. almost a year has elapsed! the nature of your complaint is not that the service wasn't provided but that you are unhappy at the results. But the results are not guaranteed.

The one thing the dentist could do, is offer to some free/reduced price treatments to you to address your dissatisfaction, but you don't want that?

Im not sure what your expectations were, but that second opinion from another dentist would have been very valuable to your case if the original dentist was not doing a good job. But all you have to go on, is your unhappiness with the results.

justfillmein

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi Op

Im not a dentist, just a consumer! Why would you think you would get a refund, and a full refund at that?

you paid for a service and the service was provided. you failed to get the second opinion, when advised to do so. you then failed to write a letter of complain in a timely fashion. almost a year has elapsed! the nature of your complaint is not that the service wasn't provided but that you are unhappy at the results. But the results are not guaranteed.

The one thing the dentist could do, is offer to some free/reduced price treatments to you to address your dissatisfaction, but you don't want that?

Im not sure what your expectations were, but that second opinion from another dentist would have been very valuable to your case if the original dentist was not doing a good job. But all you have to go on, is your unhappiness with the results.

i think i should be due some sort of a refund after the joke of service i did get. i'd like to say, i was happy at the start of treatment and really liked my dentist so its nothing personal against him. its that there were problems and they were not properly dealt with.
i paid nearly 3000euro for a service that, yes was provided, but was only half finished after five years of being there.


i failed to get that second opinion after SEVERAL MONTHS of requesting it from my dentist!
i was advised not to get my own second opinion, i needed to go through my dentist. HE didnt entertain that request, it wasnt that i wasnt seeking another opinion.

yes i didnt write the letter at the time because i was angry and i didnt want to deal with it. i wasnt meant to leave it as long i have, that is why now i'm looking for advice on where to go. if i dont have a leg to stand on after leaving it so long, then i will accept that that was my mistake for leaving it.

the problem wasnt just slight imperfections, i would have been ok with that. i'm not in hollywood so i wasnt expecting 20star treatment. but i also didnt bank on a half finished job that had dragged on and that when questioned, i was just brushed off as if i hadnt a clue what i was talking about. any other dentist that i seen for teeth cleaning also said they couldnt understand what he was doing with me(not ortho's, but just from seeing/knowing others who have had braces).

i do understand that i could possibly be offered more treatment from them, but i have completely lost all confidence in the dentist that is why i said i wouldnt be eager to go back to them.

would you, as a consumer, be happy to walk away from a half finished 3000euro job?

stronglikebull

justfillmein wrote: »

i failed to get that second opinion after SEVERAL MONTHS of requesting it from my dentist!
i was advised not to get my own second opinion, i needed to go through my dentist. HE didnt entertain that request, it wasnt that i wasnt seeking another opinion.

I'm confused. If you're having issues with a dentist, why would you be asking them for a second opinion? The onus was on you to get a 2nd opinion, and you should have gone to any other dentist to get that. You don't go to the one you have a problem with. Who advised you not to get a second opinion? That person led you completely astray.

The onus was also on you to put in writing the issues you were having. 10 months later doesn't mean it's too late to do that still, so the best thing would be to outline the issues, like you've done on this thread, and put it to the orthodontist to correct or refund for the poor quality work.

If they won't deal with you, then your only course of action would be to get a solicitor involved and sue for the money. No guarantees here, and it could start to get expensive. Might be worth booking an appointment with one anyway just to get a legal opinion on where you stand.

justfillmein

stronglikebull wrote: »

I'm confused. If you're having issues with a dentist, why would you be asking them for a second opinion? The onus was on you to get a 2nd opinion, and you should have gone to any other dentist to get that. You don't go to the one you have a problem with. Who advised you not to get a second opinion? That person led you completely astray.

The onus was also on you to put in writing the issues you were having. 10 months later doesn't mean it's too late to do that still, so the best thing would be to outline the issues, like you've done on this thread, and put it to the orthodontist to correct or refund for the poor quality work.

If they won't deal with you, then your only course of action would be to get a solicitor involved and sue for the money. No guarantees here, and it could start to get expensive. Might be worth booking an appointment with one anyway just to get a legal opinion on where you stand.

thanks stronglikebull,
it was actually the dental counsel who advised me that i needed to go through my own dentist to get the second opinion. if you are unhappy with how treatment is progressing you are entitled to request a second opinion at the dentist's expense.
however after i got nowhere with that request, i did actually get my own second opinion. i wouldnt have been able to use it, but i wanted to clear up some things that i felt could have been done differently. this particular dentist didnt want to be involved in any dispute i had with another dentist so the consultation didnt go very far lol. i completely understood and i wasnt looking to bring anyone else's name into the situation, i just wanted another opinion for myself. but i fully accepted that, and i appreciate anything that we did get to speak about.

dental counsel did also mentioned legal action if i didnt get results. but i'm not looking for anything that serious myself, so i suppose thats another reason i have put it off for so long.
my teeth are not in any state to be left as they are, i do need to get them sorted, so thats why i was trying now to find out if i had left it too long.

davo10

justfillmein wrote: »

thanks stronglikebull,
it was actually the dental counsel who advised me that i needed to go through my own dentist to get the second opinion. if you are unhappy with how treatment is progressing you are entitled to request a second opinion at the dentist's expense.
however after i got nowhere with that request, i did actually get my own second opinion. i wouldnt have been able to use it, but i wanted to clear up some things that i felt could have been done differently. this particular dentist didnt want to be involved in any dispute i had with another dentist so the consultation didnt go very far lol. i completely understood and i wasnt looking to bring anyone else's name into the situation, i just wanted another opinion for myself. but i fully accepted that, and i appreciate anything that we did get to speak about.

dental counsel did also mentioned legal action if i didnt get results. but i'm not looking for anything that serious myself, so i suppose thats another reason i have put it off for so long.
my teeth are not in any state to be left as they are, i do need to get them sorted, so thats why i was trying now to find out if i had left it too long.

Just to clarify one point in this post, there is no such requirement for your dentist to pay for your second opinion. If you seek a second opinion, you must pay for this.

justfillmein

davo10 wrote: »

Just to clarify one point in this post, there is no such requirement for your dentist to pay for your second opinion. If you seek a second opinion, you must pay for this.

hi davo10, its what i was told. i wanted to get my own second opinion in the frist place but was advised no too. payment wasnt an issue, i wasnt happy to have to pay for another person's opinion but i would have done it straight away if i was advised too. so i stuck with asking my dentist for it. i did end up paying for another opinion anyway so it wasnt about the money