shoplifting food

Andy From Sligo

If you heard of someone robbing food from a supermarket or somewhere for (genuinely) because they (or their family) are starving would you think they have to be accountable and punished or would you feel sorry for them?

purely hypothetical , I have never done it myself or had to thanks be to God! - but i think I remember a couple of years ago reading it in the champion that a father stole some food because he couldn't feed the family. Got caught and I think he went to prison for a while for it. - maybe he had some other convictions maybe i dunno.

AustinLostin

I guess the context that lead them to having to steal to not starve would be relevant.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

If my child didn't have enough to eat and I didn't have the money to buy any I would steal food in a heart beat. And I would have no moral problem with doing it.

But every Irish adult earns or is given enough money to provide food for themselves and their children. So morally I think it is quite inexcusable in a country like Ireland.

So my answer is yes and no. Depends entirely on the situation.

biko

I heard of elderly people shoplifting things like cheese and bread, that is so sad.

Even an older woman got caught shoplifting a cake so she would have something to put on the table when the grand-kids arrived.

Andy From Sligo

biko wrote: »

I heard of elderly people shoplifting things like cheese and bread, that is so sad.

Even an older woman got caught shoplifting a cake so she would have something to put on the table when the grand-kids arrived.

ah bless i feel sorry for that situation

Andy From Sligo

Was watching a Sky news special this morning on people getting this new Universal Credit paid monthly instead of fortnightly and the reporter was talking to people in the food bank there, and one of the mums hadnt eaten for at least 2 days to feed her children.

What a terrible indictment that in this day and age in first world countries that food banks even have to be in existence!

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Was watching a Sky news special this morning on people getting this new Universal Credit paid monthly instead of fortnightly and the reporter was talking to people in the food bank there, and one of the mums hadnt eaten for at least 2 days to feed her children.

What a terrible indictment that in this day and age in first world countries that food banks even have to be in existence!

Think between the Tories and Brexit the need for food banks in the UK will only increase over the coming years.

Allinall

We need to bring back butter vouchers.

McCrack

If it is Ireland we are talking about then no there is no excuse to steal food under the guise of "starvation".

We have a social welfare system and charitable services available to people in need.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Allinall wrote: »

We need to bring back butter vouchers.

We don't even need to go back that far. Plenty of government cheese was handed out to Irish people during the recession.

Andy From Sligo

Allinall wrote: »

We need to bring back butter vouchers.

that takes me back to the 90's where people were using them to buy other stuff like fags etc....

Andy From Sligo

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

We don't even need to go back that far. Plenty of government cheese was handed out to Irish people during the recession.

cheesy governments

Herb Powell

In a world where so much food is just thrown out while plenty go hungry, shoplift away I say.

Yes, it's not ideal, but in terms of all crimes going I'd consider it the least serious.

123shooter

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Think between the Tories and Brexit the need for food banks in the UK will only increase over the coming years.

And how do you base your reasoning for this then?

The Tory's only look after the rich?...........When the supposingly Socialist EU hireachy are looking after themselves and the mega rich multi-national companies that they then base their EU policies on the multi-national companies requirements and desires.........so in effect looking after the mega rich and their followers at the expense of the poor.

The British people voted for Brexit........... or are you saying wealthy people voted for Brexit? So the great unwashed would be starving in the streets when actually it was mainly the great unwashed that voted for Brexit because they were fed up of being ruled by rich people in the EU.

Back on topic..........I have never heard of people (today) being so poor they have to steal food except when their money is being spent elsewhere such as drugs/fags/booze or when a family member has debts or is with holding food money for some reason.

Andy From Sligo

wonder how you could get a Judge, on a high wage - never has he or his family had the likelihood of ever going hungry ... put someone away in prison or fining them for shoplifting food - any decent person/judge would throw the case out of court wouldnt they?

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

wonder how you could get a Judge, on a high wage - never has he or his family had the likelihood of ever going hungry ... put someone away in prison or fining them for shoplifting food - any decent person/judge would throw the case out of court wouldnt they?

They could probably be convicted but I doubt they'd get a custodial sentence.

I would imagine the only shoplifters who are actually sent down would be career types with reams of offences to their name, lifting high-value items instead of food.

lazybones32

With st.v de p, etc, there is no need to steal.
Stealing isn't right because someone loses out along the way.

I see people targetting corner shops to rob produce but any loss to the small trader is more keenly felt, rather than to large franchises.

riffmongous

Now I don't go back to Lidl

Sue Pa Key Pa

Not acceptable in Ireland, with so many supports available. How many parents of 'starving' children always have a packet of Rothmans in their pocket? What about the poor shopkeeper, who may be on the verge of losing his business and has to suffer this? If he is self employed, he'll get very little State aid to feed his family

sbsquarepants

Undoubtedly some people are more light fingered than others, but nobody would rather starve than steal.
As soon as my belly or my kids belly starts to rumble - Tesco better watch out, no qualms whatsoever!

Hypothetically of course - in reality it doesn't get that far in this country.

Andy From Sligo

Candie wrote: »

They could probably be convicted but I doubt they'd get a custodial sentence.

I would imagine the only shoplifters who are actually sent down would be career types with reams of offences to their name, lifting high-value items instead of food.

so just the fact of being convicted means that the person that carried it out, out of desperation gets convicted and is left with a criminal record? - meaning that if they did wanted to work or adopt or do something else would be hindered because they have a criminal record.. and more than likely on top of it all would have their name splashed in the local papers.

That must open up another question. If a person is doing it legitimately to feed themselves or family and get convicted they get a criminal record and therefore are a criminal? !

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

................

But every Irish adult earns or is given enough money to provide food for themselves and their children. So morally I think it is quite inexcusable in a country like Ireland.......................

I'd imagine there are folks in relationships where one half squanders the money on drink, gambling or AN Other and the other half might be left to provide for them all out of very little. Throw in a few slaps etc into the bargain too.

riffmongous

Herb Powell wrote: »

In a world where so much food is just thrown out while plenty go hungry, shoplift away I say.

Yes, it's not ideal, but in terms of all crimes going I'd consider it the least serious.

Yeah it's disgraceful how much food gets dumped. I use to volunteer at a place that would run an open sunday breakfast for the local community, and the local bakeries would give us the leftover bread and cakes from saturday (shops closed on sunday), otherwise they would have just went in the bin.

LollipopJimmy

Having spent years dealing with the larger chains I knew a few decent skin store managers.I remember one telling me a security guard of his made an absolute show of a woman who had stolen a packet of weetabix and paid for milk with coppers. Child in tow too. At the end of the day security guard was doing his job but then compassion shone through, store manager told the woman to fill a trolley with about 60quids worth of food and be on her way.

Now had the woman been stealing 'luxury' items or not been made a show of by the security guard then I'm sure he wouldn't have been as nice. At the end of the day when people are desperate to feed kids they do what they gotta do regardless if I or anybody else thinks it's right or wrong

Allinall

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

That must open up another question. If a person is doing it legitimately to feed themselves or family and get convicted they get a criminal record and therefore are a criminal? !

You can't shoplift legitimately.

It's always illegal.

However, judges can apply the probation act if there are genuine mitigating circumstances and the person won't have a criminal record.

osarusan

Given the social welfare safety net in Ireland, if anybody is reduced to stealing for their starving family, the real issue would be what has happened regarding the avenues and resources that are available to them.

Junkyard Dog

I used work in a big superstore in an urban area that shall remain nameless. I did a bit of security work for them and because the shop was so big we often had to stop shoplifters. 95% of them were just your bog standard scrote but every so often you'd stop someone that was just stealing because they or their family were hungry. It was fairly obvious even if they didn't say. It was heartbreaking! I saw many a "hard as nails" security man reduced to tears and I'm not ashamed to say I shed some myself.
Obviously we couldn't do it every time but we used try to buy the food they had taken and we'd give it to them in a bag when they eventually were let go.

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

so just the fact of being convicted means that the person that carried it out, out of desperation gets convicted and is left with a criminal record? - meaning that if they did wanted to work or adopt or do something else would be hindered because they have a criminal record.. and more than likely on top of it all would have their name splashed in the local papers.

That must open up another question. If a person is doing it legitimately to feed themselves or family and get convicted they get a criminal record and therefore are a criminal? !

Well, it is a crime and they are guilty of it. The compassion should be in how the courts deal with it.

What your proposing is to make shoplifting legal for those in genuine need. Not a very workable proposition.

ohnonotgmail

Candie wrote: »

Well, it is a crime and they are guilty of it. The compassion should be in how the courts deal with it.

What your proposing is to make shoplifting legal for those in genuine need. Not a very workable proposition.

the italians have adopted it. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36190557

piplip87

Andy From Sligo wrote:

What a terrible indictment that in this day and age in first world countries that food banks even have to be in existence!

I wonder if she had enough cigarettes to get through the week.

At the end of the day in Ireland and the UK you are given enough money to feed you and your kids. Poor decisions with that money is what leads to people visiting food banks.

SEPT 23 1989

no need to be stealing food when you have the SVdeP throwing around food hampers and Dunnes vouchers like confetti

Andy From Sligo

yeah I wonder if some of these security guards in the larger stores sometimes turn a blind eye when they see someone steal some 'staple' foods - I bet some do

123shooter

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

yeah I wonder if some of these security guards in the larger stores sometimes turn a blind eye when they see someone steal some 'staple' foods - I bet some do

I know one fella in a large supermarket on security and he said they go after legs of lamb, steak, bacon etc..........possibly has a resale value?

pilly

I know without the help of family and friends there would have been times in the past when I didn't have money for food and if I hadn't got family and friends around yes I think I would have stolen to feed my kids.

Bandana boy

123shooter wrote: »

when actually it was mainly the great unwashed that voted for Brexit because they were fed up of being ruled by rich people in the EU.

The great unwashed voted for Brexit because they did not understand the question.

Andy From Sligo

Bandana boy wrote: »

The great unwashed voted for Brexit because they did not understand the question.

also the people who were lied to (or the truth manipulated) ... (and some racists or people who wanted to stop the 'foreigners' coming into the country) voted for Brexit

123shooter

Bandana boy wrote: »

The great unwashed voted for Brexit because they did not understand the question.

Completely off topic but that is just propaganda put about those against Brexit and its hard to see that there are so many people in any country who cannot understand 2 questions........

Do you want the UK to be part of the EU? Yes...... No..... X

123shooter

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

also the people who were lied to (or the truth manipulated) ... (and some racists or people who wanted to stop the 'foreigners' coming into the country) voted for Brexit

Why is it racist to want to restrict people from another country locating in your own country?

I am sure Irish people or any people native to a country should have a say who is allowed to come to their country.........That is their birth right and does not make you a racist.

After all there are Irish people who are homeless with no money but other people are being housed in Ireland and given money.........so isnt somebody being racist (your words) against Irish people here?

Andy From Sligo

123shooter wrote: »

Why is it racist to want to restrict people from another country locating in your own country?

I am sure Irish people or any people native to a country should have a say who is allowed to come to their country.........That is their birth right and does not make you a racist.

Thats why I put it was racist or .... - some of it was racist I am sure, some of it was not racist but voted for leave because people still felt that there needed to be a stop to how many people were coming into the country.

Some people voted brexit as well because of how much money UK were giving to the EU - but I still believed the leave was peddled very highly on peoples emotions about stopping immigrants coming into the country and having borders , and that chimed with an awful lot of people to the great unwashed right through to the hooray henries ...

Conall Cernach

Bart: Uh, say, are you guys crooks?
Fat Tony: Bart, is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family?
Bart: No.
Fat Tony: Well, suppose you got a large starving family. Is it wrong to steal a truckload of bread to feed them?
Bart: Uh uh.
Fat Tony: And, what if your family don't like bread? They like... cigarettes?
Bart: I guess that's okay.
Fat Tony: Now, what if instead of giving them away, you sold them at a price that was practically giving them away. Would that be a crime, Bart?
Bart: Hell, no.

123shooter

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Thats why I put it was racist or .... - some of it was racist I am sure, some of it was not racist but voted for leave because people still felt that there needed to be a stop to how many people were coming into the country.

Some people voted brexit as well because of how much money UK were giving to the EU - but I still believed the leave was peddled very highly on peoples emotions about stopping immigrants coming into the country and having borders , and that chimed with an awful lot of people to the great unwashed right through to the hooray henries ...

So your point is .......people wanted to control the destiny of their own country.......but you think that is racist?

So what about the Irish homeless who are poor and are discriminated against (I believe thats called racism) and preferential treatment is given to people who are not from Ireland?

Andy From Sligo

I wonder if the social welfare system would be better off to give weekly food vouchers to people or organise food deliveries to vulnerable people rather than just pay them cash payments like they do because there is that risk that vulnerable people might spend the money on fags and booze or other things and not have enough for food.

This bloke in the UK on Sky news this morning was a recovering alcoholic and said that he gets the universal credit in cash every month now but was going to see if he could get the money paid directly to the rent so it wouldnt be tempting to fall off the wagon and squander it on drink instead...

Billy86

biko wrote: »

I heard of elderly people shoplifting things like cheese and bread, that is so sad.

Even an older woman got caught shoplifting a cake so she would have something to put on the table when the grand-kids arrived.

It is, I worked in Tesco as a teenager and you'd see a few regular elderly shoplifters and pretend not to see it - things like bread and butter, packets of dry pasta/spaghetti and such, cheap essentials basically. The odd time you'd be called over to do the price reductions on bread rolls etc in the bakery section about 8 or 9pm and there was always the same swarm of them battling to get the bread rolls and baguettes reduced to 10c or whatever it was (and waiting around for up to an hour beforehand). Being a teenager I didn't fully cop why at first but once you did, that was a genuinely depressing experience to have to do since there was almost always more people than bread meaning some going home empty handed after waiting around so long.

Giving them priority to people you knew were needy over people otherwise just doing their shopping and not aware of the context (and so getting pissed off at you for giving the stuff to others) without context was difficult too, since they were usually very embarrassed about their situation and you could hardly say in front of everyone that if they didn't get the bread rolls they would probably have to go hunting in bins for food.

123shooter

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I wonder if the social welfare system would be better off to give weekly food vouchers to people or organise food deliveries to vulnerable people rather than just pay them cash payments like they do because there is that risk that vulnerable people might spend the money on fags and booze or other things and not have enough for food.

This has been raised many times in my lifetime about giving out vouchers instead of cash so the money would be better spent and delivered.

Actually been too controversial to implement as it is seen as being discriminatory and stigmatizing the less well off........(kind of racist) :D:D

Andy From Sligo

123shooter wrote: »

So your point is .......people wanted to control the destiny of their own country.......but you think that is racist?

So what about the Irish homeless who are poor and are discriminated against (I believe thats called racism) and preferential treatment is given to people who are not from Ireland?

No, you are twisting my words - at the risk of repeating myself I meant some voted to leave because they were racist or some voted to leave because they wanted borders to stop any more foreigners coming in and settling in the UK.

I dont know how much plainer I can explain it without you thinking that I think its racist ...

EDIT: by the way thats only my personal view that, along with the other things like money given to EU etc.. why a lot of people chose leave over remain - maybe it wasnt at the end of the day, but thats what I think happened

pilly

How did a thread about shoplifting turn in to one about Brexit?

123shooter

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

No, you are twisting my words - at the risk of repeating myself I meant some voted to leave because they were racist or some voted to leave because they wanted borders to stop any more foreigners coming in and settling in the UK.

I dont know how much plainer I can explain it without you thinking that I think its racist ...

I understand you but the fact is that there were borders everywhere until about 11 years ago and everything worked out fine.

Steviesol

lazybones32 wrote: »

With st.v de p, etc, there is no need to steal.
Stealing isn't right because someone loses out along the way.

I see people targetting corner shops to rob produce but any loss to the small trader is more keenly felt, rather than to large franchises.

I take it you have never been in that position. ? V D P are great, but it can take a week to get food vouchers off them. That's not much help to your hungry kids today, so I disagree with your first sentance.

freshpopcorn

Most people I have heard of being caught shop lifting have generally had money to pay for luxury items or have being bad to manage money. I think classes on money management would benefit some people instead of a conviction.

123shooter

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Most people I have heard of being caught shop lifting have generally had money to pay for luxury items or have being bad to manage money. I think classes on money management would benefit some people instead of a conviction.

Are people prosecuted in Ireland? I cant remember seeing any/many cases.

fullstop

Herb Powell wrote: »

In a world where so much food is just thrown out while plenty go hungry, shoplift away I say.

Yes, it's not ideal, but in terms of all crimes going I'd consider it the least serious.

Ah yeah, sure **** the person putting all their time, effort and money into trying to run a business and just steal from them. Great attitude :rolleyes: