Kimmage vs Luke Fitzgerald....

terrydel

Any listened? Imho Kimmage absolutely destroyed the whinging, unprepared, unprofessional Fitzgerald.
I'll be honest and say I cant f**king stand rugby, particularly in Leinster where it is an elitist load of toss for the most part. And for me Fitzgerald displays all of that spoilt brat mentality in this 'debate'.
His argument amounted to two things, 'you're a bully' because Kimmage challenged his nonsense, and that if the ref doesnt see it it isnt cheating, utter nonsense both of those stances.
He also seems to think that because kimmage trangressed his opinion shouldnt be heard or respected, more utter nonsense and actually a dangerous notion as it deters whistleblowers from speaking out.
Delighted to see Kimmage wipe the floor with him, should be the end of Fitzgerald's media 'career'.

iwillhtfu

terrydel wrote: »

Any listened? Imho Kimmage absolutely destroyed the whinging, unprepared, unprofessional Fitzgerald.
I'll be honest and say I cant f**king stand rugby, particularly in Leinster where it is an elitist load of toss for the most part. And for me Fitzgerald displays all of that spoilt brat mentality in this 'debate'.
His argument amounted to two things, 'you're a bully' because Kimmage challenged his nonsense, and that if the ref doesnt see it it isnt cheating, utter nonsense both of those stances.
He also seems to think that because kimmage trangressed his opinion shouldnt be heard or respected, more utter nonsense and actually a dangerous notion as it deters whistleblowers from speaking out.
Delighted to see Kimmage wipe the floor with him, should be the end of Fitzgerald's media 'career'.

Is there playback you can link to? I saw them having a barney on twitter during the week alright.

terrydel

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Is there playback you can link to? I saw them having a barney on twitter during the week alright.

Should be a link here mate - http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/the-left-wing/the-left-wing-listen-in-full-as-luke-fitzgerald-and-paul-kimmage-face-off-on-dublin-cheating-and-doping-in-sport-36177454.html

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: I am going to contact the rugby mods because it's not cycling related.

Trojan

Haven't listened to it, but I've been a long time fan of Kimmage. He lost me last week when he called a GAA official a jobsworth for ending the presser with Mayo manager after the final:

Paul Kimmage wrote:

Stephen Rochford, the Mayo manager, is brought in and he is absolutely distraught. It was pitiful to watch him, it really was. But, he could not have been more gracious to the Dublin team and the Dublin players - I thought it was tremendous.

I was a little peeved that some jobsworth jumped in and said 'right, that's it, over now' after six minutes. I would like to have talked to him a bit more about it and asked him a few questions

Stephen Rochford was barely able to speak. Anyone watching his post-match tv interview with Joanne Cantwell would have been urging her to stop asking him questions - he was in bits. I can well imagine that six minutes in front of press conference was well enough. To call the person who stopped it a jobsworth is out of order. The rest of the stuff on Jim Gavin, well that's debatable but I don't agree with his take.

To me Kimmage is a superb writer and he was 100% right on Armstrong and faced down heavy guns during that period. But much of the criticism he gets is warranted these days.

EverythingGood

He eviscerates a very poorly prepared Fitzgerald.

LeoD

terrydel wrote: »

Any listened? Imho Kimmage absolutely destroyed the whinging, unprepared, unprofessional Fitzgerald.
I'll be honest and say I cant f**king stand rugby, particularly in Leinster where it is an elitist load of toss for the most part. And for me Fitzgerald displays all of that spoilt brat mentality in this 'debate'.
His argument amounted to two things, 'you're a bully' because Kimmage challenged his nonsense, and that if the ref doesnt see it it isnt cheating, utter nonsense both of those stances.
He also seems to think that because kimmage trangressed his opinion shouldnt be heard or respected, more utter nonsense and actually a dangerous notion as it deters whistleblowers from speaking out.
Delighted to see Kimmage wipe the floor with him, should be the end of Fitzgerald's media 'career'.

I'm surprised 4 people went to the effort of thanking this.

Lambay island

Just listened there with no pre opinion as such. Found myself cringing at what Fitzgerald had to say at times. He was very ill prepared and came across very naive in my opinion.

neris

kimmage has come across in the last few weeks as a very angry bitter man especially towards the dublin team and manager.

LeoD

Lambay island wrote: »

Just listened there with no pre opinion as such. Found myself cringing at what Fitzgerald had to say at times. He was very ill prepared and came across very naive in my opinion.

Agree that his attempts to define deliberately breaking the rules of the game (pulling players to the ground) as cynical but not cheating didn't really make sense but calling out Kimmage as a bully was fair enough. I don't think Kimmage is bitter or any of the other things he's usually labelled as but he does come across as a bully and quite unpleasant at times - the shouting, finger pointing, table thumping and dropping the stack of paper onto the table is unnecessary and turns a lot of people off him.

Lambay island

LeoD wrote: »

Agree that his attempts to define deliberately breaking the rules of the game (pulling players to the ground) as cynical but not cheating didn't really make sense but calling out Kimmage as a bully was fair enough. I don't think Kimmage is bitter or any of the other things he's usually labelled as but he does come across as a bully and quite unpleasant at times - the shouting, finger pointing, table thumping and dropping the stack of paper onto the table is unnecessary and turns a lot of people off him.

I can definitely see what your saying here. He can come across as unpleasant and unreasonable at times but I would see that as more " his style" as opposed to him been a bully. I see why people can dislike him and his style. I don't agree with some of his comments regarding Jim Gavin but i think he has a point about the cynical play.
I think around the 37.5 min mark Fitzgerald comes across very childish like he just established a breaking news story. Asking Kimmage does he think taking drugs is cheating is like asking the pope does he believe in God?

terrydel

LeoD wrote: »

I'm surprised 4 people went to the effort of thanking this.

I'm surprised you went to the bother of remarking on that.

py

terrydel wrote: »

I'm surprised you went to the bother of remarking on that.

Well I'm surprised.... :pac:

Miklos

A journalistic minnow challenging one of Ireland's definitive big fish. Shows Fitzgerald's naivety in inviting him on the show... hard way to learn that lesson!

JaMarcusHustle

It's a very interesting argument, but not one Luke Fitzgerald is professionally equipped to represent either side on. He folded under very light pressure from Kimmage and resorted to "Didn't you take amphetamines?" way too many times when Kimmage clearly acknolwedged that he had cheated.

Don't think either of them came across well to be honest, but only one of them had done the research you'd expect. I think Kimmage's "victory" in that debate could have been a hell of a lot more emphatic had he been more composed in his exchanges.

iwillhtfu

I can't help but feel the only thing achieved by Kimmage in the interview is to prove Fitzgeralds point of him being a bully.

Kimmage has the IQ advantage and is by far more prepared for the interview and takes full advantage of Fitzgeralds lack of clarity and complete lack of of knowledge on historic data. I understand Kimmages frustration and how it spills over into anger but I'm not sure if I condone it to be honest.

I'd be in favour of Kimmage and how he tackles the difficult questions albeit biased to sports but I'd be a reluctant fan at times.

Fitzgerald is beyond naive if he believes that PEDs are not in some way associated with rugby. Ask any young lad playing rugby and he'll give you the honest answers even if it's only to the point of taking anti inflamatories to mask an injury.

Alf Veedersane

Fitzgerald seemed to say it wasn't cheating because the referee didn't punish it.

Bit like saying doping isn't cheating because the UCI (or insert another governing body) haven't punished it.

It absolutely was cheating. A visual definition of it.

BrianJD

cheat
tʃiːt/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating
1.
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
"she always cheats at cards"

I can see where LF is coming from as Paul can be very forceful but he absolutley has a point. Cynical fouling matches the definition of cheating.

DKmac

Luke Fitz : Rugby hasn't got a doping problem

I'll leave this link here:
https://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/current-violations/search

Flagrantfolly

They both come across terribly on this but on the main point as to whether the Dublin players cheated, I would disagree that this is cheating. Within the context of a team sport and the battle that takes place on the pitch, it's a foul. A cynical, aggressive foul, but a foul nonetheless.

southstar

neris wrote: »

kimmage has come across in the last few weeks as a very angry bitter man especially towards the dublin team and manager.

He always seems to bang on the same drum if given the chance.I find that and his very high opinion of his own opinion very tiresome...and petty in debate.Hes a good enough journalist ..that's it though

Alf Veedersane

Flagrantfolly wrote: »

Within the context of a team sport and the battle that takes place on the pitch, it's a foul. A cynical, aggressive foul, but a foul nonetheless.

Why isn't it when it's clearly coordinated? I don't see why it can't be considered cheating.

Crocked

DKmac wrote: »

Luke Fitz : Rugby hasn't got a doping problem

I'll leave this link here:
https://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/current-violations/search

I think Luke Fitzgeralds argument would be supported by that link so. <20 Rugby Union players banned on that list out of 2m registered players. Now the 2m registered would seriously overinflate the actual numbers playing but that is how many are registered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rugby_union_playing_countries

I don't think Fitzgerald is seriously saying there is no drug taking in Rugby, but at what level is it a systemic problem in the sport?

Kimmages spoutings the last few weeks have been ridiculous. He has been looking for a new crusade on drugs in rugby for a few years now and this is just more of the same.

Of course mixed into this is the usual class bolloxology that a lot of Irish people seem to have about Rugby. So it's an easy target rather than looking at Football, GAA, Golf etc where there are vastly more participants in this Country.

Flagrantfolly

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Why isn't it when it's clearly coordinated? I don't see why it can't be considered cheating.

When a player is sent out to do a man marking job on another player and pulls his jersey/blocks his runs for 70mins, cheating or "part of the game"? I would say "part of the game" and I would categorise what the Dublin players did as the same thing.

CramCycle

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