Will lost by solicitor

Baby01032012

Hello all,

I'd appreciate your opinions. I have POA over my fathers affairs. I recently asked his solicitor to confirm, for peace of mind that he holds my fathers Will.

He said he remembered my father leaving papers with him but would check and come back to me. I followed up and he said he searched twice but has found no papers for my father and had mistaken my father for someone else in relation to papers.

My fathers previous solicitor retired 5 years ago. I took possession of all deeds for properties my father owns. I signed for possession of the deeds. However his previous solicitor would have returned will to him. However I'm following up to confirm that. My father sourced new solicitor himself and I have recollection of him telling me that he had left his will with the new solicitor. I also remember seeing a letter from new solicitor confirming receipt. I'm trying to locate that letter.

I will also ask my fathers brothers and sisters if they are aware of a will. My father is in poor health and also has dementia so simply asking him is not possible.

I don't think my father is in a position to make another will. I understand the rules should my father die intestate. It would be very unfortunate if he should pass away without his wishes being known.

Any other suggestions on course of action. What is the process if solicitor looses a Will. I guess it all depends on should it be discovered in future and any adverse effects as a result.

The new solicitor moved location 2 years ago and I believe he may have lost or misplaced my fathers will at that time.

hullaballoo

In the event a will is lost, there is no will and the rules on intestacy apply.

That's the long and the short of it, I'm afraid.

ETA: Steps need to be taken to attempt to find the will - looking through your father's papers, writing to all local solicitors to see do they have it, seeing is there a photocopy in anyone's possession if the original will is not found etc.

Baby01032012

Many thanks hullabaloo

I spoke to my fathers previous solicitor. He only has soft unsigned copy so is worthless as he would not be able to stand over whether it is a true copy.

I've asked my fathers doctor if he is of sufficient capacity to make another will. However I doubt that he is.

hullaballoo

That's problematic all right, if the previous solicitor can't stand over it. It's one of these areas where the outcomes are rarely satisfactory unless by some miracle, everyone is delighted by the outcome of an intestate distribution.

Baby01032012

I'll make every attempt to find his Will. I'll also wait for a day where he is relatively well and ask him if he can remember where he had it.

In one way with no Will it makes it clearer where his assets will go and therefore I can plan his affairs accordingly with the POA.

However if his intentions are different I'd hate to see his wishes overlooked. Hopefully I do track down his Will.

Beanybabog

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I'll make every attempt to find his Will. I'll also wait for a day where he is relatively well and ask him if he can remember where he had it.

In one way with no Will it makes it clearer where his assets will go and therefore I can plan his affairs accordingly with the POA.

However if his intentions are different I'd hate to see his wishes overlooked. Hopefully I do track down his Will.

Are you sure they aren't with the Deeds? Or even a copy? I'm a Solicitor and if someone makes a will with me I always give them a copy with our business card in an envelope.

Muahahaha

hullaballoo wrote: »

In the event a will is lost, there is no will and the rules on intestacy apply.

That's the long and the short of it, I'm afraid.

ETA: Steps need to be taken to attempt to find the will - looking through your father's papers, writing to all local solicitors to see do they have it, seeing is there a photocopy in anyone's possession if the original will is not found etc.

Can it revert to an earlier will made prior to the lost will before it goes to the rules of intestacy? Not saying thats the case here but just wondering

Sleeper12

I used to have a business beside a solicitor's office and as a result I'm witness to over 100 wills. I remember signing several copies. Two or three I can't remember. I don't know if this is standard or not but I'm wondering if if there is more than one signed copy?

Beanybabog

Muahahaha wrote: »

Can it revert to an earlier will made prior to the lost will before it goes to the rules of intestacy? Not saying thats the case here but just wondering

Technically no, the old will is revoked by the making of the new will. The difficulty in this case would be that that if there was an "old" will, who is to say that's not the the most up to date one, when no evidence of a new signed will exists.

Baby01032012

I'll check all deeds. I went through last year when reviewing tax but I wasn't looking for a will then.
There are 3 boxes of deeds. 8 live properties and more for properties sold.

I checked my parents house yesterday but nothing showed up. Will do it again.

I visited my dad today. He's in a nursing home. Has his good and bad days and today was a bad one so not the time to ask about his will.

P. Breathnach

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Many thanks hullabaloo

I spoke to my fathers previous solicitor. He only has soft unsigned copy so is worthless as he would not be able to stand over whether it is a true copy...

While an unsigned draft has no legal standing, it should allow you to divine your father's intentions. If what he intended was close enough to what the intestacy rules would deliver, that might be sufficient to set your mind at ease.

Pat Mustard

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I don't know if this is standard or not but I'm wondering if if there is more than one signed copy?

There is a process whereby if an original Will is lost, it can still be proved in terms of copy, by means of application to court. So if there is a copy and if evidence can be given that the copy is a true reflection of the (lost) original, I think that the grant of probate could be extracted on that basis.

Peregrinus

Pat Mustard wrote: »

There is a process whereby if an original Will is lost, it can still be proved in terms of copy, by means of application to court. So if there is a copy and if evidence can be given that the copy is a true reflection of the (lost) original, I think that the grant of probate could be extracted on that basis.

This. And the solicitor who drew up the lost will usually has a file which shows what instructions were given, drafts of the will and correspondence in relation to the drafts, and with luck a final draft which will normally be identical to the will that was executed. Plus, there may be a file note confirming that the will was executed, and showing the date on which this was done. So the contents of the lost will can often be reconstructed with a high degree of accuracy.

Victor

Peregrinus wrote: »

This. And the solicitor who drew up the lost will usually has a file which shows what instructions were given, drafts of the will and correspondence in relation to the drafts, and with luck a final draft which will normally be identical to the will that was executed. Plus, there may be a file note confirming that the will was executed, and showing the date on which this was done. So the contents of the lost will can often be reconstructed with a high degree of accuracy.

Except if the lost will was kept with the file and both were lost.

Baby01032012

I agree the unsigned draft is a good basis for a "new" will. I guess it's a matter of getting it signed by my father with his solicitor as witness to his competency.

I of course have no right to see that Will. I spoke to his doctor yesterday. The doctor will not make a call on my fathers competency. He said he needs a geretriaican to make that call and so is writing to one.

Pat Mustard

Victor wrote: »

Except if the lost will was kept with the file and both were lost.

If the the Will and the instructions and the file are all lost, a copy of the will may have been sent to the testator and failing all of that, there may be a soft copy of the will and the instructions on a computer in the solicitor's office.

Obviously, the relevant evidence would have to be brought in support of the application but if there's no copy of the executed will then you have to use what evidence is there.

hullaballoo

I think there is a soft copy of at least an iteration of the will in this case but the solicitor who drafted it won't stand over it, which makes any such application extremely difficult. Unless I have taken the OP up incorrectly.

Pat Mustard

You are correct.

hullaballoo

Pat Mustard wrote: »

You are correct.

I only know any of this because I googled it and found a thread where you already said it. :pac:

Baby01032012

OP here.

I located a letter today from my fathers solicitor confirming receipt of my parents Wills by registered post from previous solicitor. I'm awaiting his response. I'm hoping if he searches again he can find them. A geriatrician is assessing whether my dad is well enough to make a new will. If not I guess this will be problematic where there is evidence that there was a will which has been misplaced.