Newborn breastfeeding question

starface

My daughter is six days old today and I've been breastfeeding her. The nurses said her latch is good and I have a really good milk supply but I'm worried that she is not feeding for long enough.

She feeds for 10-15 minutes during the days every three hours roughly. She always lets go of the boob herself usually around ten minutes in and I try my best to wake her back up. Sometimes I'll eventually get another few minutes out of her and sometimes I just won't win the battle.

She is back at her birth weight 8lbs 12. She is an excellent sleeper but she is alert when not sleeping. She looks around a lot and makes little sounds (not crying or smooching). She doesn't have little seeds in her poop so is she not drinking enough to reach hind milk?

I'm a first time mum and I'm open to breastfeeding or bottlefeeding depending on which is working best for her.

I'm starting to obsess about the length of time she is feeding for.

catrionanic

Congratulations on your little girl!

When it comes to BFing, every baby is different. The main things to watch for, in order to make sure she is getting enough, is her nappies and her weight gain. The fact that she's back to birth weight at six days old is really fantastic, so she must be getting plenty of milk. Is she having plenty of wet and dirty nappies?

It sounds to me like you are doing well. It may be worth going along to a local cuidiu or la leche league BF support meeting for some extra reassurance, though.

mapaca

As long as she's gaining weight and doing plenty of nappies I think you're doing fine! She might just have a good strong suck. Keep offering the breast every 3 hrs as you have been. They don't need much to be full at this stage, their tummies are so small. It's early days anyway, she'll probably start doing something different next week! Keep going, you're doing well. X

shesty

I have been here with two.My second was like yours and she did just fine.You obsess over every little thing, especially bf because you can't see how much they take in at each feed.
At six days she would only be drinking....what, 60ml or so out of a bottle at each feed?Pour that into a jug and look at how little it is.

If she's back at her birth weight, she's doing ok.Keep an eye on how many wet and dirty nappies she's doing.And if you still feel worried, maybe call a lactation consultant, for your own piece of mind.

spottybananas

If she's back at birth weight after 6 days that's brilliant, my son took 3 weeks to get back to his which is quite normal with breastfed babies. As mentioned once she's having plenty wet and dirty nappies that's the main indicator, but definitely with a weight gain like that she sounds like she's doing great and has an efficient latch.

starface

Thank you so much for all the replies - they gave me some reassurance!! She has lots of nappies so will just keep going and see how it goes!

Hani Kosti

Congratulations on your arrival. As already said, plenty wet/dirty nappies and weight gain are great indicator your little one is getting enough.
I was panicking at the start that my girl is not eating enough, now we call her pudge!

otwb1

I breastfed 2 to about 12 months each. Agree with the other posters....once you're getting plenty of wet nappies you're doing fine.

I found that poos turned green and foamy when baby wasn't getting hind milk so I just gave two feeds from each side at that stage until things settled down again/take off some foremilk before baby settles down for a feed. (usually happened at/around a growth spurt until my Milk supply settled down which took a few days each time)

fineso.mom

Sounds like she is doing great. I used to worry about my 3rd child,he was 9.5lbs but only fed for ten minutes or so at a time and the time between feeds started stretching very quickly. But he gained weight steadily,was a happy alert baby when he was awake and had plenty of nappies. Slept through the night very quickly too.
So I eventually stopped worrying and now he's 17yrs old, nearly 6ft and I can't believe I ever thought he might not be getting enough.☺

ncmc

Congrats Starface, I was the exact same with both my kids. My now 3 year old always only fed for 10-15 minutes at a time. I was demented worrying about it, I was weighing her almost daily and was even weighing her nappies! But as the others have said, as long as she is gaining weight and has wet and dirty nappies, she's getting enough. Some babies are just very efficient feeders. I'm currently BFing my 11 week old son and he's the exact same. I'm much more relaxed this time and am trusting my body to do what it's supposed to! Sounds like you're doing great, try and relax and enjoy it!

Sheepdish1

I sometimes worry about the same thing so I try to keep an eye on whether there are plenty of wet nappies. If you are concerned you could pop into the public health nurse to get baby weighed and speak to her. That's what I would do to put my mind at ease 🙂

jelly&icecream

I had a similar experience with my now 18 month old when she was small. Would only have 7 ish min feeds. I was concerned she wasn't getting enough, wasn't getting hind milk etc and was obsessed for several months with getting her weighed weekly at the breastfeeding group/phn. It just seemed so different to the other women breastfeeding who couldn't get the baby off the breast!

I think it was caused by her being a bit jaundiced and sleepy at birth and me having a bit of an oversupply.

She gained weight and was peeing and pooping all over the place so I had no reason to be worried but I was as I didn't have a clue! 😊

Anyway enjoy the sleeping while it lasts and stop worrying. At about 4 months mine started waking more etc and became a bit more typical.

xalot

Some babies are just really efficient feeders. My two never fed for more than 10 minutes total and were big busters.

You're doing great, dont doubt yourself.

starface

Hi all,

I got my baby weighed today and she's only put up 3 oz in one week (she's 13 days old now).

At first the nurse converted kg to lb and oz wrong and told me she'd lost weight. She told me I probably don't have enough milk and to top up with formula morning and night. Once I realised she'd converted her weight incorrectly I went back in. She agreeded that her calculations were wrong but said 3 oz still isn't enough weight gain in one week.

The nurse wants me to top up her feeds with formula and measure my milk supply. I thought I'd loads of milk but when I fully expressed one of my breasts this evening at 6pm and I could only get 2.5 oz out if it. The nurse said I should be getting 3oz.

Has anyone else successfully topped up their own supply with formula? Did it turn baby off breast milk or is it relatively straight forward?

Thanks a mill for all the replies

bee06

Is this the public health nurse? I'd be getting a second opinion from a proper lactation consultant first.

spottybananas

Expressing is no indication of supply as baby is much more efficient at getting milk out. I would call a lactation consultant or Cuidiu counsellor for more/better advice, if you start supplementing with formula it will decrease your supply, the last thing you want.

starface

Yes it was a drop in clinic with public health nurse.

I'll get advice elsewhere before I start the formula.
Thanks!!!!

spottybananas

A lot of phn's give outdated advice or just useless snippets ime, for example my friend was told to "space out feeds" for her 8 week old. Such a simple instruction but the phn basically wanted her to ignore her baby's hungry cries for an additional hour or two every single time

bee06

Also, did she not take into account that your baby was at birth weight after 6 days? The NHS website says the guideline to regain birthweight would be 2 weeks. It makes logical sense to me that the baby would gain less weight in the 2nd week that the "norm" if she/he had already gained a lot of weight in the first week.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/Pages/baby-weight-and-height.aspx

PhoenixParker

You've to be very careful about how and when you supplement but supplementing does not have to be the death knell for breastfeeding and supply. At the end of the day a healthy baby gaining weight has to be the priority.

On the positive side a 3oz gain is within spitting distance of where you're aiming to be and could easily be due to a measurement error.

The first thing I would look at is the weighing scales in your case. It's very common for different scales to give different weights due to being miscalibrated. Try to get two weights at least two days apart on the same scales, one which is preferably not moved around too much.

Look up you tube videos on breastfeeding and swallowing. Make sure your baby is swallowing frequently when at the breast. Look up the tricks to make sure baby stays awake, generally stripping baby and tickling their feet. The fact that baby is releasing the boob is a really good sign.

At the end of feeds try hand expressing into a big bowl. There are YouTube videos on that too. That can help to build up supply if you're on the low side and while it's awkward and time consuming it saves the hassle of setting yourself up with a pump multiple times a day.

A lactation consultant is obviously a good idea as is ruling out any ties.

If you do end up supplementing there are different options. What's worked for me is feed first, then a paced bottle feed (you tube again) til just about full, then topping off with boob as needed until he was due another feed a few hours later. My supply was low enough that he got supplemented at every feed except overnight. He's a year on Thursday and still breastfeeding.

fits

What a crock of .. from that nurse. I'd agree to get ibclc lactation consultant out.

Also 2.5 Oz in the evening from one breast is amazing. I'd struggle to get that and I'm feeding twins.

waterfaerie

spottybananas wrote: »

Expressing is no indication of supply as baby is much more efficient at getting milk out. I would call a lactation consultant or Cuidiu counsellor for more/better advice, if you start supplementing with formula it will decrease your supply, the last thing you want.

I absolutely agree with this. You can't base anything on how much you can express as it's totally different to a baby.

Don't listen to that PHN at all. Everything she's telling you is bad and incorrect advice and I would advise you not to see her again. You can request a different one and, if you're very lucky, you might get one that's a bit more supportive.

You need to get a lactation consultant, preferably an IBCLC, as soon as possible.

So many people I know went down the slippery slope of "topping up" because they were told they didn't have enough milk, which is ridiculous because low milk supply is extremely rare and there would be a medical cause for it. Nearly all women have more than enough milk and it infuriates me that so many Irish women are told falsely that they don't. Then they eventually have to give up breastfeeding because, if there's one way to actually end up with a low supply, it's by giving formula.

Weight gain is not an indicator at all. If your baby has plenty of wet and dirty nappies and is alert when awake, there is no problem. My baby lost weight between weighings as well but she put it all back on again. Really, as new mothers, the last thing we need is to be made to worry about this nonsense. Like someone else said, I was also weighing nappies and obsessing. It's not what you need at this special time.

I would advise you to get an IBCLC as soon as you can. They are the only people who I would trust to diagnose if there's an actual problem.

In the meantime, you need to protect the supply you have. If there is something like a tongue tie, it can lead to a drop in supply over time. See if you can get a haakaa pump and put it on one side while baby feeds from the other. This will help to keep your supply up if your baby isn't doing that effectively. It's especially important if you need to wait a while for an appointment with an IBCLC.

Obviously, if your baby seems unwell at all, go to your GP, but I wouldn't be rushing in because of poor weight gain alone. Also, don't feel rushed or pressured into giving formula before you see the IBCLC. If your baby's acting fine, there's no panic and if there is an actual problem, the IBCLC will give you proper advice and make a plan with you.

I would also advise you to get to as many breastfeeding groups as you can. What you're describing comes up far too often at the groups I go to so you will get lots of advice. It's also important to meet and surround yourself with supportive people. My baby is 6 months old and I still never miss a meeting. It's a wonderful way to socialise with other breastfeeding mums.

jlm29

TBH, I'd report her to your service your say, for spouting a load of nonsense. I know she probably means well, but her advice is out of date, and wrong.
If you can find a cuidiu or la leche league group in your area, that would be a good, inexpensive place to start. If you're worried, find an ibclc.
I wouldn't pump before 6 weeks, if I were you. It's not really recommended in most cases, and it can lead to over supply, which can be hard on baby.
FYI, on my first, I couldn't ever pump more than an ounce at a time- it just never worked for me. I fed him exclusively for 6 months, and he was always high on the weight charts.

waterfaerie

PhoenixParker wrote: »

You've to be very careful about how and when you supplement but supplementing does not have to be the death knell for breastfeeding and supply. At the end of the day a healthy baby gaining weight has to be the priority.

On the positive side a 3oz gain is within spitting distance of where you're aiming to be and could easily be due to a measurement error.

The first thing I would look at is the weighing scales in your case. It's very common for different scales to give different weights due to being miscalibrated. Try to get two weights at least two days apart on the same scales, one which is preferably not moved around too much.

Look up you tube videos on breastfeeding and swallowing. Make sure your baby is swallowing frequently when at the breast. Look up the tricks to make sure baby stays awake, generally stripping baby and tickling their feet. The fact that baby is releasing the boob is a really good sign.

At the end of feeds try hand expressing into a big bowl. There are YouTube videos on that too. That can help to build up supply if you're on the low side and while it's awkward and time consuming it saves the hassle of setting yourself up with a pump multiple times a day.

A lactation consultant is obviously a good idea as is ruling out any ties.

If you do end up supplementing there are different options. What's worked for me is feed first, then a paced bottle feed (you tube again) til just about full, then topping off with boob as needed until he was due another feed a few hours later. My supply was low enough that he got supplemented at every feed except overnight. He's a year on Thursday and still breastfeeding.

I'm sorry but I disagree with a lot of this.

Firstly, weight gain is not the main indicator of health.

Secondly, even if there is a problem, it can more than likely be resolved without "supplementing".

Thirdly, weighing every couple of days is only going to add unnecessary stress. It's also far too short an interval for accurate graphing of weight gain.

Finally, while looking at youtube may be beneficial, the OP really needs a professional to look at her baby feeding.

I do agree with the tips about keeping the baby awake while feeding and about hand expressing after feeds.

OP, stay away from the scales and the formula, and get an IBCLC.

waterfaerie

jlm29 wrote: »

TBH, I'd report her to your service your say, for spouting a load of nonsense. I know she probably means well, but her advice is out of date, and wrong.
If you can find a cuidiu or la leche league group in your area, that would be a good, inexpensive place to start. If you're worried, find an ibclc.
I wouldn't pump before 6 weeks, if I were you. It's not really recommended in most cases, and it can lead to over supply, which can be hard on baby.
FYI, on my first, I couldn't ever pump more than an ounce at a time- it just never worked for me. I fed him exclusively for 6 months, and he was always high on the weight charts.

I second reporting her.

Also, that's right about the pumping, which is why the haakaa pump is good for this situation. It doesn't stimulate extra milk but it drains what's there, so the supply won't increase, but it also won't drop if the baby isn't managing to drain the breasts.

jlm29

waterfaerie wrote: »

I second reporting her.

Also, that's right about the pumping, which is why the haakaa pump is good for this situation. It doesn't stimulate extra milk but it drains what's there, so the supply won't increase, but it also won't drop if the baby isn't managing to drain the breasts.

I don't know though - if you drain the milk that's already there, your body will produce more to replace it, so i still wouldn't go too overboard with the Hakka!

scarepanda

For **** sake, how can the PHN say that you 'should' be able to pump exactly 3oz? It's such an arbitrary number. Your supply at any given time will depend on what, when and how much food and water you have taken, as well as the time of day you have pumped etc. You also shouldn't pump before 6 weeks at which point your supply should be fairly established. For me I didn't feel like mine was established till around 8 weeks. Also, the two week period is based on formula fed babies, for exclusively breastfeed babies 3 weeks should be allowed. Also, some women simply can't pump despite being well able to feed directly.

In my experience, take note of what the PHN is saying, but filter it big time. Look at your baby, do they have regular wet nappies? Are they bright and alert? Trust your gut instinct. Some PHNs are full of ****e, some base their advice on formula fed babies, some simply just have out dated info and some just like staring at numbers on a page and not look at the baby in front of them. I found that PHNs get nervous when they don't have a bottle measurement to tell them exactly how much baby is getting.

For what it's worth I would say 2.5oz pumped breastmilk is a good return. At 13 days there's no way I would have been able to pump that much in one go.

ncmc

You're PHN doesn't sound like she's up to much tbh! While 3oz is a little low, babies grow at different rates and is due a growth spurt about now so she could easily pile on the weight in the next day. Rather than introduce formula, I would first consult a lactation consultant to ensure you have a good latch (so baby is feeding efficiently) and then I would try and introduce an extra feed or two in the day. So feed every 2-2.5 hours. In the early weeks it can feel like you're living under the baby, but surround yourself with snacks and a good box set and enjoy it! A few days of increased feeding could make all the difference.

ncmc

Is anyone else getting more annoyed with the OP's PHN the more they think about it 😡 No wonder BF rates in this country are so abysmal with 'experts' like her giving such bad advice.

Just regarding the pumping, my son is 12 weeks and I was out for a few hours on Saturday so left him some expressed milk and pumped when I got home. I hadn't fed in about 6 hours so was pretty full and still only managed to get less than 4oz from both breasts. And trust me, my wee fella is growing like a weed so he's definitely getting more than that. It's very hard pumping whilst also trying to feed. I think 2.5 oz is pretty good actually! Definitely try and avoid pumping for the first 4-6 weeks, it messes with your supply and could leave to over supply issues.

Anne_cordelia

jlm29 wrote: »

I don't know though - if you drain the milk that's already there, your body will produce more to replace it, so i still wouldn't go too overboard with the Hakka!

For me the Haakaa simply collects the milk that flows out into my bra/clothes/baby clothes etc regardless so it's not stimulating supply, it's a collection device only.

scarepanda

ncmc wrote: »

Is anyone else getting more annoyed with the OP's PHN the more they think about it 😡 No wonder BF rates in this country are so abysmal with 'experts' like her giving such bad advice.

Yes, absolutely. It really pisses me off in general the 'advice' and notions that the professionals give new mothers.

I truly wish something could be done to ensure that midwives, hospital lactation consultants* and PHNs are fully trained with up to date scientific and practical information. I know there is lots of support in the community with cuidu and le leche league, but better non-judgemental support needs to be given in the hospital setting because in most cases community support is too late.

I had an awful hard time getting started and if it wasn't for one midwife I wouldn't have left the hospital breastfeeding - I'm 13 months in now. Since I've had my LO Iv been more interested in breastfeeding in general and some of the stuff that has been said to and advice given to friends that have had babies since and tried breastfeeding is nothing short of shocking.

I also think the ad campaigns like 'breast is best' are doing more harm than good as they make it seem like it's all rainbows and fairytales and completely ignore that fact that it's hard work, especially in the first few weeks. A lot of people I know got very discouraged when it got hard a few days in because they weren't expecting it and then thought they were doing something wrong.

starface

Hi guys. Thank you so much for all the messages. They have kept me somewhat sane! I was just becoming confident with breastfeeding and yesterday made me rethink everything. It looks like you were all correct. The PHN rang me today and when I told her I got 2.5 oz from one breast she said that is loads and that I don't need to top my LO up with formula. I just have to get her weighed again next week but everything should be fine. I'm glad I held off on given the formula bottle last night now. After all the hard work with breastfeeding for the first ten days I'm glad I can stick with it now and it wasn't all a waste.

ncmc

That's great starface, nice to get a second opinion. One bit of advice I got and still stick to is, don't make any decisions while it's dark! You're not at your most rational when it's late and you're tired. Always hold off til the morning!

But no matter what happens, the breast feeding you have done so far will never be a waste. Every single breast feed you give is good for the baby. If you do supplement with formula, they are still getting the benefits of breast feeding. So it's certainly not the end of the world if you do go down that route.

starface

ncmc wrote: »

That's great starface, nice to get a second opinion. One bit of advice I got and still stick to is, don't make any decisions while it's dark! You're not at your most rational when it's late and you're tired. Always hold off til the morning!

But no matter what happens, the breast feeding you have done so far will never be a waste. Every single breast feed you give is good for the baby. If you do supplement with formula, they are still getting the benefits of breast feeding. So it's certainly not the end of the world if you do go down that route.

Yeah you're right. I dunno why it was bugging me so much. I was literally ready to just formula feed full time last night and give up BFIng. Must be the hormones!!

ncmc

starface wrote: »

Yeah you're right. I dunno why it was bugging me so much. I was literally ready to just formula feed full time last night and give up BFIng. Must be the hormones!!

Trust me, we've all been there. At 4:30 this morning I would have gladly given my little buttmunch a bottle of formula! That's why I don't keep it in the house! I know some people keep a box 'just in case' but I think it could get way too tempting

starface

Baby is eight weeks now and getting so big. I’m still feeding her myself and it’s going really well. just wanted to say thanks for all your replies when I needed them in the early days.