Should date be set to cut off long-term dole wasters ?"

Basal

Should the government set a date, say January 1st 2020 to permanently cut off the dole to anyone who has been on it for more than 5 years ?

myshirt

Letting them get their dole s the cheaper option.

s4uv3

Fcuk sake

pablo128

Basal wrote: »

Should the government set a date, say January 1st 2020 to permanently cut off the dole to anyone who has been on it for more than 5 years ?

Another f*ckin dole bashing thread. How original.

Noveight

Basal wrote: »

Should the government set a date, say January 1st 2020 to permanently cut off the dole to anyone who has been on it for more than 5 years ?

No.

Next!

beertons

Yes, of course it should.

Will it? No.

Esel

In before the cut-off.

corner of hells

Basal wrote: »

Should the government set a date, say January 1st 2020 to permanently cut off the dole to anyone who has been on it for more than 5 years ?

This is not your slot.. it's reserved for discussion around wearing poppies for remembrance stuff.

Gatling

No longer than 5 years and then your on your own seems fair

Littlehorny

Always thought the dole should be cut by 10% for every year your on it, so by the time your 5 years on it your only getting 50%. The dole should be made as unattractive as possible.

RobbingBandit

Yeah let's kill all the poor people one step under you on the social ladder, then let the next step above you kill you and your kind cause you're not as rich as they are, ah social economic progression, capitalism 101.

EPAndlee

Maybe if they aren't making valid and frequent attempts at finding work

BillyBobBS

What a dole bashing thread on Boards.ie. This has to be a first.

jca

School is back the teachers are in bad form, time to bash the people on the dole time.

DontThankMe

They should be given a 10% increase for every year they are on the dole.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Should this not be in the Politics forum ?

Four Phucs Ache

Somehow this thread will continue for longer than it should and end up with 2 posters arguing about some form of legislation until 4am and the last post before it dies will have numerous phrases highlighted in bold with the last comment being " you don't have a clue" in Irish.

B.A._Baracus

I have been on the dole for 20 years. I own 3 houses in Dublin, Get to take 15 holidays a year... wait 16 holidays a year actually. I get up around noon and do nothing all day.

But to all those who bash the dole the only thing you have to do to get the same is quit your jobs and sign up. Unless... the dole isn't what it is cracked up to be? But surely that cannot be the case because that would make dole-bashers a$sholes? :pac:

previous user

After 1 year people on social welfare become crack addicts: Fact.

tayto lover

Only have a problem with "career dolers".

TheQuietFella

EPAndlee wrote: »

Maybe if they aren't making valid and frequent attempts at finding work

When you look at the amount of migrants that have entered this country
and have established themselves quite successfully it would make you wonder!

B.A._Baracus

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I have been on the dole for 20 years. I own 3 houses in Dublin, Get to take 15 holidays a year... wait 16 holidays a year actually. I get up around noon and do nothing all day.

But to all those who bash the dole the only thing you have to do to get the same is quit your jobs and sign up. Unless... the dole isn't what it is cracked up to be? But surely that cannot be the case because that would make dole-bashers a$sholes? :pac:

Argument is ridiculous and should be out to bed once and for all

You can happily work yourself while having an issue with the social welfare setup.

It's a remarkably stupid point to make in these threads and it comes up again and again.

patrickbrophy18

What needs to be done is better tracking of individual welfare cases. For example, each month when signing on, the welfare recipient would be asked for evidence in printed form that they are actively seeking employment. This way, it would become increasingly obvious who is abusing the system and is genuinely doing their best to get off it.

Then, after a year, for example, those with clearly no intention of coming off it would have it cut by increments of €10 for every month thereafter that they are on it. For those who are trying their level best to get work, they could organize interviews to fast track their employment. By the way, this DOES NOT mean free labor as was the case with Job Bridge.

There are the exceptions such as those with disabilities who need as much time as they want to get a job. I understand that there are those who might give up job hunting when they have been unsuccessful for a year or more as it is soul destroying. This is where organized and perhaps guided interviews could be carried out.

I don't agree with a fixed or hard deadline as is being suggested by the OP.

RobbingBandit

They're all reverse vampires liability saucer people whose organs should be harvested for zoo meat, oh and did I mention they're communist nazi bastards, let's sell em all to the lizard people. Now feck off I have to get up early to go to 16 post offices for my free money which you all worked so hard to get for me.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I think if you haven't paid in, you don't reap out.
The less you do in the country the more you're entitled to.
The more you try to stand on your own two feet, the more you'll be knocked down.

B.A._Baracus

Deleted User wrote: »

Argument is ridiculous and should be out to bed once and for all

You can happily work yourself while having an issue with the social welfare setup.

It's a remarkably stupid point to make in these threads and it comes up again and again.

You are just jealous.

:pac:

Arcade_Tryer

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I think if you haven't paid in, you don't reap out.

Next time you're driving a car on the road, or stepping onto public transport, make sure you allow any person who has paid more in taxes than yourself to proceed ahead of you; after all, they've paid in more than you, and should reap more of the benefits.

That argument is circular as can be seen. The fact is welfare recipients do pay in, and pay a higher proportion of their disposable income than a lot of higher tax earners, as most of their small income is disposable, and is spent within the country as soon as they receive it.

jimmycrackcorm

I don't think you can cut people off welfare completely. However, after a number of years on the dole people should be doing community work or something to contribute back to society.

Maybe after five years, make them join the army and indulge in peacekeeping efforts in Iraq?

Spider Web

Deleted User wrote: »

Argument is ridiculous and should be out to bed once and for all

You can happily work yourself while having an issue with the social welfare setup.

It's a remarkably stupid point to make in these threads and it comes up again and again.

Plus, people who are critical of those who take the absolute piss can simultaneously be in favour of decent social supports for those who deserve them (jobseekers, carers, ill, disabled, lone parents).

I don't get why there's always this hyper defensive attitude, as if it's only possible to be completely in favour or completely against. One of my pet peeves is single mother bashing (I know there are those who take the piss but what about those whose relationship ended?) but the self entitled "I deserve everything for free" crowd annoy me as much.

Arcade_Tryer

Deleted User wrote: »

Argument is ridiculous and should be out to bed once and for all

You can happily work yourself while having an issue with the social welfare setup.

It's a remarkably stupid point to make in these threads and it comes up again and again.

You sure about that? It doesn't strike me that someone happily working and making a living would willingly castigate welfare recipients. Instead it would seem to be the sport of people deeply unhappy with their own lives and resentful of others seemingly getting something for nothing, all other things being equal.

retro:electro

No I don't think it should be cut but I do think something should be put in place. Sometimes I wonder how can you be "genuinely seeking work" for 5 years? But on the other hand I can see how heading back to work can be completely daunting for people and they are using the system as a crutch. After 5+ years out of work your confidence would be totally shattered. It's clear that the new Seetec/Job Path schemes aren't working and are only making people more fed up.

Arcade_Tryer

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

That argument is circular as can be seen. The fact is welfare recipients do pay in, and pay a higher proportion of their disposable income than a lot of higher tax earners, as most of their small income is disposable, and is spent within the country as soon as they receive it.

Proportion shmoportion. Who asked anyone about proportion. Also skipping over earned vs unearned income or income from social welfare spend vs salaries, all important distinctions.

I'm not actually a bloody dole basher ffs, but the arguments used to try to defend any and all level of reliance on it over any length of time are spurious, lazy and nonsensical a lot of the time.

Would your time not be better spent, if you were of a mind to advance a personal philosophy of general strengthened social safety net, in arguing for it to be targeted, monitored, and subject to conditions that supported the aims of the society paying for it?

Or are you just idk for nonworkers Vs workers or think tax is for mugs or think the govt should be hit for every cent you can or think that dolebashing threads, and granted this is a ridiculous one, need you in here fighting an indefensible but right on rearguard action?

Arcade_Tryer

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

You sure about that? It doesn't strike me that someone happily working and making a living would willingly castigate welfare recipients. Instead it would seem to be the sport of people deeply unhappy with their own lives and resentful of others seemingly getting something for nothing, all other things being equal.

You sure about that yourself? It doesn't strike me that anyone who is happy to work, earn their way and pay towards the general good should be expected to be held to any particular opinion or lack of it if their feeling is that theres a system in place rewarding opt-outs who by choice contribute little and are entitled to much.

Again, there's a level of social protection that is necessary, and imo in many areas it's actually too low a bar in the country at the moment. But people that are unwilling to contribute when fully able to do so should not enjoy long term benefits.

Arcade_Tryer

Deleted User wrote: »

Proportion shmoportion. Who asked anyone about proportion. Also skipping over earned vs unearned income or income from social welfare spend vs salaries, all important distinctions.

Proportion of welfare spent is a crucial point considering people's problem with the amount spent of welfare; welfare money is largely circulated back into the economy. If the proportion returned to the economy doesn't concern you, then perhaps your problem is with the welfare recipients themselves, the people? A lot of workers simply despise the idea of people receiving welfare for doing nothing to earn it. But where does that position get society? It doesn't ask any questions, and sure as hell doesn't provide any answers; it's merely deflecting one's own bitterness at life towards those on welfare.

Hammer89

corner of hells wrote: »

This is not your slot.. it's reserved for discussion around wearing poppies for remembrance stuff.

That's what your one said to Wayne Rooney in the car I believe.

Taylor365

Ha Why do you think it was increased?!

Most of it goes to excise tax :pac:

Rubberchikken

I work and hope my taxes are doing something useful including helping those not as fortunate.
I don't begrudge anyone anything. Those that have should contribute for those who haven't. There'll always be wasters on social welfare. Plenty of them in the working world too.

Your Face

Underpants gnome logic.

1.Cut off dole
2.?
3.Utopia

Arcade_Tryer

Deleted User wrote: »

You sure about that yourself? It doesn't strike me that anyone who is happy to work, earn their way and pay towards the general good should be expected to be held to any particular opinion or lack of it if their feeling is that theres a system in place rewarding opt-outs who by choice contribute little and are entitled to much.

It's a cliché, but it's also true; if life on welfare really was that good, you would be doing the same. Many will dispute that cliché, claiming they have too much self respect, and would much rather contribute to society, and so on and so forth. Yes, that's true, but that is also down to the culture within which you were raised and exist within. It also invariably always pays more for most people to work than receive welfare. So why then would people target the monetary aspect of welfare, rather than attempt to change the culture of some of the welfare dependent groups in society? Cutting their allowance is only going to cause them pain, and consequently society pain. At least there is the possibility of long term benefits if public investment is implemented instead. For example, the country is awash with money right now, and growing richer by the second, yet here is a thread about cutting the dole, rather than long term investment in public services which might prevent systemic welfare problems in the near and distant future. Short sightedness, blinded by bitterness and unhappiness.

Harry Palmr

People who are signing on for 6 months should be guided with some force towards education/training of some form based on their aptitude/education/work history. No one should be allowed to "just sit on their arse" and to be fair the DSP seems to be making efforts in this area though I suspect they are doing as little as possible in terms of "core mission"

corner of hells

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't think you can cut people off welfare completely. However, after a number of years on the dole people should be doing community work or something to contribute back to society.

Maybe after five years, make them join the army and indulge in peacekeeping efforts in Iraq?

Five years and I get to join d'army ?
Ok by me though in five years I'll be 52 .

rustynutz

More of an effort should be made to get long term dole recipients back to work, I cant understand anybody not being able to find a job if actively looking for five years, fair enough it might be minimum wage, but there are jobs out there.

But for a lot of people it is easier to sit on their hole and collect the dole than actually work for a living, anyone who thinks the majority of people on the dole cant find work, is deluded. If you have any more than two kids in this country, and are only eligible for a minimum wage job, then you are better off on the dole, rent allowance, medical card, back to School allowance etc. That is a fact, and until that changes, people will carry on abusing the system

I also think if you have any more than two kids you shouldn't get any extra payment from the third kid on wards. I live in rural Ireland and in our area the only people with more than 3 kids are travellers and long term welfare families, if nothing else it wont be sustainable into the future as kids who never see a parent work are unlikely to work themselves, so in a couple of generations the number of dole scroungers and travellers will start to outnumber the taxpayers, then the real fun will start.

Grayson

Harry Palmr wrote: »

People who are signing on for 6 months should be guided with some force towards education/training of some form based on their aptitude/education/work history. No one should be allowed to "just sit on their arse" and to be fair the DSP seems to be making efforts in this area though I suspect they are doing as little as possible in terms of "core mission"

They are. And if they don't turn up their dole is cut off.


Now, if you don't mind I'm off to burn my Irish passport and quit my job so I can become a dole scrounging refugee. I hear you get 10 prams on the first day. Ridiculous I hear everyone say! Well of course it is. You only get 10 if you have no kids. You have to have a sprog to qualify for the full 20.

WoollyRedHat

I think that it should be 6 months. 5 years is far too charitable. They should then be harvested for their organs.

Grayson

rustynutz wrote: »

I also think if you have any more than two kids you shouldn't get any extra payment from the third kid on wards. I live in rural Ireland and in our area the only people with more than 3 kids are travellers and long term welfare families Catholics who won't use a jonny, if nothing else it wont be sustainable into the future as kids who never see a parent work are unlikely to work themselves, so in a couple of generations the number of dole scroungers and travellers will start to outnumber the taxpayers, then the real fun will start.

I fixed your post for you.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

There was a big hullabaloo a few years ago when the recession hit and Xmas bonuses were stopped. Then I think did they give 25% back the first year it was reintroduced (which only long term unemployed are entitled to, not those who've just lost their job, baffling) and I remember someone telling me "next year we'll be getting the whole lot". That just summed that attitude up for me, he had 52 weeks to try and change his circumstances, but he knew that he wasn't going to be working or off social welfare by next year and was happy enough with that.


That's the attitude that needs fixing

Kermit.de.frog

I remember at the last European Championships when we qualified fans that were present for the tournament were being identified as being on the dole.

Did prompt a few questions at the time.

jca

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I think that it should be 6 months. 5 years is far too charitable. They should then be harvested for their organs.

Nah that wouldn't work the organs would be useless shur everyone on the dole is a can drinking druggie don't ya know.

RayM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Instead it would seem to be the sport of people deeply unhappy with their own lives and resentful of others seemingly getting something for nothing, all other things being equal.

Pretty much. They don't want others to get something for nothing, but they sure as hell wouldn't want to work with people whom they attempt to dehumanise as "wasters" either. There is a certain cohort of dreadful people out there (and indeed on here) who always need someone to look down upon.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

RayM wrote: »

Pretty much. They don't want others to get something for nothing, but they sure as hell wouldn't want to work with people whom they attempt to dehumanise as "wasters" either. There is a certain cohort of dreadful people out there (and indeed on here) who always need someone to look down upon.

I've done my fair share of hiring and firing and to be honest I'd be thrilled getting a cv from someone who wanted to work and not be on the dole. It wouldn't deter me in the slightest from giving them a chance. People coming in half arsed, asking for x amount of days on the books and available for extra off the books, but refusing a full time position would get my back up but never someone genuinely trying to help themselves.

Lord Nikon

Cut the dole is an easy solution, perhaps giving everyone €196 regardless of whether they work or not would be better. Wonder how many people on the dole would complain about it? Bit more of an incentive for those not working to go get a job.