Ballistol

minktrapper

Your thoughts on the above for cleaning firearms.

Grizzly 45

Probably the best stuff out there for firearms.
The Germans have been using it for over 110 years, for;
Cleaning and oiling guns, oiling and cleaning all types of leather. Was used in both ww1 and ww2 by the German army for that task.I just rejuvenated an old Irish army Vickers helmet leather chin strap with it.Oiling and sharpening all types of cutlery, including surgical equipment as its sterile and food grade produced.Used in fine mechanics like watch and precision devices. Oiling horses hooves, treating cuts, burns abrasions, wasp stings, flea bites, removing ticks on both you and your hound.Protection against salt spray on sea fishing tackle.Works pretty well if not better than some custom stuff l if you are running a "wet can" silencer.
Oh yeah, you can oil rusty stuff with it too.:) and won't burn the head off you if you manage to spill it or get it on your skin or the living room table.[Will give it a grand polish that will please the irate better half].And smells pleasant too, next to Frog lube and Hoppes WD40.

http://www.ballistol.de/1-1-Startpage.html

minktrapper

Excellent Grizzly. Where can I purchase. I presume you use it. And which variant of it do you use. Out of curiosity what is it made from. Can it be used on the bore to protect against rust. Can I fire a round without cleaning any residue that is left that is provided I can use on the bore.

RS98

+1 on ballistol. I've used it since I got my first Gun. Works very well with semis as well as bolt actions. Also gives a nice finish to wood stocks.

I use the bottled non spray version. Half a litre for €13. I've been using the one bottle for 9 months. Lakelandsportssupplies.ie has them.

http://lakelandsportssupplies.ie/shooting/Oils--Sprays/BALLISTOL-Universal-Oil----ML-122-15-1062.html

RS

Grizzly 45

minktrapper wrote: »

Excellent Grizzly. Where can I purchase. I presume you use it. And which variant of it do you use. Out of curiosity what is it made from. Can it be used on the bore to protect against rust. Can I fire a round without cleaning any residue that is left that is provided I can use on the bore.

The UK store http://www.ballistolstore.co.uk/ Or just order it direct from the plant.

I just buy or get the family to send me a litre can of it when I need it.Every 5 years or so.:) Put a little in a small spray bottle and it will last for a season. Just use the original Balistol Klever for everything..It won't go off either.A bottle from 1925 was found in 1985, and apart from going a bit darker in colour, it was fit for use.
Just use it the same way you use any cleaning product in your rifle barrel.Swab, let it sit awhile, patch until clean, and run a very lightly oiled final patch thru for protection.lightly oiled rag, for outside metal and wipe internal parts as well, wipe down your wood stocks as well same way if they are oil finishes.The only thing it is not useable on is Chamois leather and some plastics.

Made from...Good question...Company secret, but it's classified as absolutely non-toxic either by drinking the stuff or by skin contact.Classified as a "white oil".One I didn't know, good for cleaning stainless steel and any metal surfaces treated with it makes them impervious to graffiti spray paint.And it can be used for sun and wind burn as well.

minktrapper

If some plastics are affected by it it might not be ideal for use on a plastic stock.

Grizzly 45

Haven't noticed any effect on polymer.At least my Glock hasn't melted from 10 years of the stuff!:D But then again, polymer stocks are designed to be hosed down with water if need be,or a need to oil plastics. So I'd say you are safe enough there too.

juice1304

The only thing we use it for in the workshop is disinfecting wounds lol.
It is a do everything oil rather than a one job oil. Its grand short term in a pinch, but i wouldnt use it myself on my own firearms.

minktrapper

juice1304 wrote: »

The only thing we use it for in the workshop is disinfecting wounds lol.
It is a do everything oil rather than a one job oil. Its grand short term in a pinch, but i wouldnt use it myself on my own firearms.

Why

juice1304

Because that is what it was originally designed for. :pac: So it is basically tradition in any Büchsenmacherei.

minktrapper

I thought it was designed for using on firearms.

Grizzly 45

It was, but Juice is also right that it is a cure all in most German households for everything. From the website of its history.


At the turn of the 20th century, the German Imperial Army began looking for a multipurpose oil that could be used to clean and maintain the metallic parts of a rifle, while also protecting its wooden stock and a soldier’s leather gear. To develop this oil, the Army contracted with Friedrich Klever and his son Dr. Helmut Klever, a professor of chemistry at the Technical University of Karlsruhe.

In 1904, Dr. Helmut Klever succeeded in producing the special compound, which he named “Ballistol” (from the words “ballistic” and “oleum”, the Latin word for “oil”). It soon became obvious that this new “ballistic oil” had truly amazing capabilities, and in 1905 the Imperial Army tested and adopted Ballistol, which stayed in use until 1945. By then, however, word had spread and within a decade, hunters, boaters, hikers, and outdoorsmen in Germany, Austria and Switzerland had converted to using this new “miracle oil.”

I suppose the best way to describe this is German snake oil that works and does genuinely do what it says on the tin.
Put it like this, if it was rubbish, I doubt it would be in business 110 years later.

Gravelly

Is there any particular reason why gun oil (of any brand) is so much more expensive than any other light oil? Is there some special ingredient refined from the testicles of unicorns that is required? Or are firearms owners just seen as a soft touch?

Grizzly 45

It's got to do with grade and viscosity of the oils. As well as heat developed, friction ,hydraulics, and a bunch of other mechanical factors, I'm no doubt missing.Gun mechanisms are somewhat delicate things that need a lighter grade oil than a rock borer.

Gravelly

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It's got to do with grade and viscosity of the oils. As well as heat developed, friction ,hydraulics, and a bunch of other mechanical factors, I'm no doubt missing.Gun mechanisms are somewhat delicate things that need a lighter grade oil than a rock borer.

Lots of other mechanisms need a light oil - it doesn't cost anything to make an oil lighter. The heat and friction developed in a firearm mechanism are minuscule compared to many other mechanical processes.

Walter Mittys Brother

I've been using 3 in 1 for years and no adverse results

Gravelly

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

I've been using 3 in 1 for years and no adverse results

I'd be willing to bet that those expensive gun oils are just 3-in-1 with a bit of perfume added in!

Grizzly 45

Lots of other mechanisms need a light oil - it doesn't cost anything to make an oil lighter. The heat and friction developed in a firearm mechanism are minuscule compared to many other mechanical processes.

Tell you what..Grab hold of my silencer and barrel of my semi auto after shooting 36 rounds over a 15-minute Bullseye 360 course to see how little heat is developed on the mechanism and lockwork.:p Up that into something full auto, and you can see barrels glowing red hot. Even in a BA or semi shotgun, there is a rapid build up of heat from shots fired in rapid succession.Ask the lads with LE after the "mad minute" how hot a bolt action becomes. True it doesn't travel into the trigger mechanism [that much] but that's another reason you need lighter oils.Debris.Heavier oils will collect grunge quicker and especially in a cold state where they are on low viscosity.Lighter oils move quicker as they warm up so are less likely to "stick around" collecting gunge.

Now, when we say "oil"[ generic term like "car]" you would want to be specific as in mineral,vegtable, synthetic.ASFIK "white oils" are not made from mineral oil but are paraffin and veggie oil based?Reason gun oils are more expensive is they are refined from mineral oil products and have enough toxic compounds in them to be almost carcinogenic, with powder and lead and copper removers.

If there was such a thing as one universal oil, that could lube everything from a watch to a ship's engine. It would be fantastic and it would never see the light of day from an oil companies office who bought the patent.This would wipe out huge R&D as well as their own products.But as of now in mineral oils, the lightweight oils are the most expensive and hardest to produce from crude in the refineries, as they are the lightest product drawn off the cracking columns

gunhappy_ie

Gravelly wrote: »

Is there any particular reason why gun oil (of any brand) is so much more expensive than any other light oil? Is there some special ingredient refined from the testicles of unicorns that is required? Or are firearms owners just seen as a soft touch?

Yes, your paying for packaging !

As an unrelated example: Recently serviced my van which takes over 4.5 liters of oil to fill the sump.

My local motor factors sells the recommended oil at either €35 for 5 liters of which Id need 2 totaling €70.

Or

I could buy a 20 liter drum for €75 euro.Had I bought a half drum of 100 or so liters it works better again. etc etc

Now for gun oil there are 2 important (among any) things:

1. We're an island where everything is imported. Oils are a HAZ MAT and command a premium on shipping

2.When you add oil into aerosol cans your buying a tiny amount of oil but paying extortionate prices especially if its brand name.

Gravelly wrote: »

Lots of other mechanisms need a light oil - it doesn't cost anything to make an oil lighter. The heat and friction developed in a firearm mechanism are minuscule compared to many other mechanical processes.

Is there a bit of a spin on any oil, Yes however (as anything consumer driven is) but they do work and not all oils are the same or WD40 would actually be a good idea to put on a firearm (Never do)

Yes the environment inside a firearm would be similar to other machines (that was is what a firearm is after all) but just taking firearms there are several different types of oil and greases used depending on your application.

Gravelly

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Tell you what..Grab hold of my silencer and barrel of my semi auto after shooting 36 rounds over a 15-minute Bullseye 360 course to see how little heat is developed on the mechanism and lockwork.:p Up that into something full auto, and you can see barrels glowing red hot. Even in a BA or semi shotgun, there is a rapid build up of heat from shots fired in rapid succession.Ask the lads with LE after the "mad minute" how hot a bolt action becomes. True it doesn't travel into the trigger mechanism [that much] but that's another reason you need lighter oils.Debris.Heavier oils will collect grunge quicker and especially in a cold state where they are on low viscosity.Lighter oils move quicker as they warm up so are less likely to "stick around" collecting gunge.

Now, when we say "oil"[ generic term like "car]" you would want to be specific as in mineral,vegtable, synthetic.ASFIK "white oils" are not made from mineral oil but are paraffin and veggie oil based?Reason gun oils are more expensive is they are refined from mineral oil products and have enough toxic compounds in them to be almost carcinogenic, with powder and lead and copper removers.

If there was such a thing as one universal oil, that could lube everything from a watch to a ship's engine. It would be fantastic and it would never see the light of day from an oil companies office who bought the patent.This would wipe out huge R&D as well as their own products.But as of now in mineral oils, the lightweight oils are the most expensive and hardest to produce from crude in the refineries, as they are the lightest product drawn off the cracking columns

I'm an engineer, so none of this is news to me. However, you are arguing with a point I haven't made. There is nowhere on a firearm that comes anywhere close to the friction and heat developed, say, between the piston walls and piston rings of a car engine, yet gun oil is many multiples as expensive as engine oil. Many machines used in food processing have finer mechanisms than guns, and require a vegetable-based oil that is food safe - these too are considerably cheaper than gun oil. I am acutely aware that their is no one universal oil, I never said there was, I am simply asking why gun oil is more expensive than any other oil I know, despite not requiring any property that many other oils have.

gunhappy_ie

Gravelly wrote: »

I'm an engineer, so none of this is news to me. However, you are arguing with a point I haven't made. There is nowhere on a firearm that comes anywhere close to the friction and heat developed, say, between the piston walls and piston rings of a car engine, yet gun oil is many multiples as expensive as engine oil. Many machines used in food processing have finer mechanisms than guns, and require a vegetable-based oil that is food safe - these too are considerably cheaper than gun oil. I am acutely aware that their is no one universal oil, I never said there was, I am simply asking why gun oil is more expensive than any other oil I know, despite not requiring any property that many other oils have.

Ref: Friction/heat..... you are incorrect. On semI and particular full auto I've seen firearms hot enough that parts at best cause excessive/premature wear or grind to a hault from lack of lubrication and at worst sheer components or seize together.

Even to compare a bolt action to an engine is like apples to oranges in that: If an engine ran at the same RPM as a bolt action there would be a significant drop in heat so much so that I reckon there would be no need for a cooling system !

Also, mass produced engines aren't built to that high a tolerance, neither are most mass produced firearms

Back onto the cost pf oils....Do the owners of machines in food processing buy their oil 250 ml at a time ?

Also with the food industry I'm sure the contaminants/debris that enter these are not the same as a firearm.

Gravelly

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Gravelly wrote: »

I'm an engineer, so none of this is news to me. However, you are arguing with a point I haven't made. There is nowhere on a firearm that comes anywhere close to the friction and heat developed, say, between the piston walls and piston rings of a car engine, yet gun oil is many multiples as expensive as engine oil. Many machines used in food processing have finer mechanisms than guns, and require a vegetable-based oil that is food safe - these too are considerably cheaper than gun oil. I am acutely aware that their is no one universal oil, I never said there was, I am simply asking why gun oil is more expensive than any other oil I know, despite not requiring any property that many other oils have.

Ref: Friction/heat..... you are incorrect. On semI and particular full auto I've seen firearms hot enough that parts at best cause excessive/premature wear or grind to a hault from lack of lubrication and at worst sheer components or seize together.

Even to compare a bolt action to an engine is like apples to oranges in that: If an engine ran at the same RPM as a bolt action there would be a significant drop in heat so much so that I reckon there would be no need for a cooling system !

Also, mass produced engines aren't built to that high a tolerance, neither are most mass produced firearms

Back onto the cost pf oils....Do the owners of machines in food processing buy their oil 250 ml at a time ?

Also with the food industry I'm sure the contaminants/debris that enter these are not the same as a firearm.

You believe there is more friction and heat in the moving parts of a civilian firearm than an internal combustion engine??!

Yet again, I'm asking a simple question - exactly what quality is required of gun oil that makes it more expensive than any of the very many other commonly used oils? (Hint: there is definitely no more heat or friction in the moving parts or a firearm than an internal combustion engine).

gunhappy_ie

Gravelly wrote: »

You believe there is more friction and heat in the moving parts of a civilian firearm than an internal combustion engine??!

Yet again, I'm asking a simple question - exactly what quality is required of gun oil that makes it more expensive than any of the very many other commonly used oils? (Hint: there is definitely no more heat or friction in the moving parts or a firearm than an internal combustion engine).

Jesee I'm awful sorry, I didn't realise there was one simple answer you were looking for but
Your the engineer.... you tell me !

Grizzly 45

[

Back to the cost of oils....Do the owners of machines in food processing buy their oil 250 ml at a time?

Also with the food industry, I'm sure the contaminants/debris that enter these are not the same as a firearm

.

Nope, but they buy Ballistol tho...:D:D:D As it is food grade and approved for food production.As it is also used in surgical equipment lubrication. As for the contaminants, not the same type ,but more than likely the same size ,if not smaller.

As why "gun oil" is more expensive.As said, the additives, the refineing[from someone who has had two generations of family in the oil industry from Welders up to Refinery engineers:)] process to get an ultra light mineral oil.To shipping it as an aerosol hazmat product as Gunhappy pointed out to additives like lead and copper removers that are toxins as well.

minktrapper

Am I right in saying that Ballistol removes lead and copper fouling.

juice1304

minktrapper wrote: »

Am I right in saying that Ballistol removes lead and copper fouling.

no, it is just an oil.

Grizzly 45

It's all we have ever used for gun cleaning.Can't say it has affected accuracy anyway at all with lead or copper buildup.But then we are hunters, who maybe put 100 rounds downrange per season, not Fclass 1000yard paper punchers:).So accuracy might be relative.
It is good if you are using a lot of milsurp and corrosive primer ammo.It is slightly alkali, so it negates acidic salts from the primers. Does it remove lead& copper...Hard to say, but any patches that come out first are I find, dirtier than if you were using Hoppes No 9.
Like anything in this life, what may work for me may not for you.Best is, get a bottle, try it and judge the results for yourselves.

minktrapper

I am not overly worried about the lubricating properties of whatever product I use but the cleaning and protective properties are important to me. Having said that is there any need to lubricate modern bolt action rifles. I would have thought that the steel used would be so hard as to need minimal lubricating. What do I use to dissolve copper from my WMR.

juice1304

minktrapper wrote: »

I am not overly worried about the lubricating properties of whatever product I use but the cleaning and protective properties are important to me. Having said that is there any need to lubricate modern bolt action rifles. I would have thought that the steel used would be so hard as to need minimal lubricating. What do I use to dissolve copper from my WMR.

Steel of equal hardness will ware on each other, companies manufacturing firearms are usually looking to save on manufacturing costs buy using cheap ****e wherever they can. And for the most part there are only a handful of steels used which have been used for eons at this stage.
So in short a little lube is not going to hurt just not too much.
And it should be a gun lube because what people are missing is by using the likes of wd40 which is not really a lube its water displacement formula 40 is that it may harden or cause crud to build up and without proper maintenance of the firearm as in taking it completely apart. it can cause malfunctions down the road and ever accidental discharges, i see it every day in work.
You can use a copper solvent like hoppes no 9 but you dont need to be removing all the copper all the time especially with something like a wmr