15 year rule with car insurance!

Pictures Of Lilly

This is a question that I couldn't get a straight answer with for some time now.

I understand with most companies at the moment, that 15 years (car age) seems to be the cut off point for accepting new clients. So my question is, at what point do they start fleecing you? If you buy a 14 years old car, does that mean you’ll be trapped with a particular insurance company, and they’ll start fleecing you?

Or will they be fair, and up the insurance just a tiny bit, because the car is a tiny bit older? Because if not, then maybe I’ll buy a car that’s say 12 years old. Because I don’t want to be in the same problem that I’m in now, in a year’s time!

So what year and model should one get, if all they’re concerned about is saving money? So a cheap car, but also cheap insurance.

cocoman

Better posting this in the insurance forum.

Pictures Of Lilly

cocoman wrote: »

Better posting this in the insurance forum.

Very little views there! I know it's AH, but anyone with a car should have something to add.

Fr_Dougal

Car? Well laa dee daa, no recession here...

vicwatson

It's all ballcocks, we know that, the insurers know that, the gubberment know that, BUT NO ONE CARES unfortunately

Pictures Of Lilly

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

.... So my question is, at what point do they start fleecing you?

From the day you are born, son, the day you are born.

Victor

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

If you buy a 14 years old car, does that mean you’ll be trapped with a particular insurance company, and they’ll start fleecing you?

Not necessarily. If you buy a car and keep it for X years and change insurers, it's not as much of a problem as someone buying a banger and trying to get insurance with a new insurer - this is what scammers have been doing.

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

So what year and model should one get, if all they’re concerned about is saving money?

That will be down to the cost of the new car, the cost of insurance, how long you intend to keep the car and the discount rate you apply to future expenses.

Sue Pa Key Pa

The age of the car is one of many aspects to your individual circumstances on which insurers base their premiums. There is no answer to your question

Atlantic Dawn

Usually for those companies it's a blanket ban for cars 15 years old on a new quote only, however if you are with them already with the car they will continue to quote you when your car reaches 15 years old.

vicwatson

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Usually for those companies it's a blanket ban for cars 15 years old on a new quote only, however if you are with them already with the car they will continue to quote you when your car reaches 15 years old.

And most likely keep increasing the premium, for no reason

donegaLroad

there is a grey area of about 10 years when the car is 15 years old. Once it hits 25 years you can insure it as a classic car (I think). There are plenty of cars from the 1950's and 60's on the road here every time there is a vintage rally.

vicwatson

donegaLroad wrote: »

there is a grey area of about 10 years when the car is 15 years old. Once it hits 25 years you can insure it as a classic car (I think). There are plenty of cars from the 1950's and 60's on the road here every time there is a vintage rally.

30 years afaik

biko

Insurance for >15 year old cars

Sue Pa Key Pa

vicwatson wrote: »

And most likely keep increasing the premium, for no reason

If the increase is modest, they are keen to retain your business. If the increase is substantial, they don't want your money, they want you to bugger off to another insurer

delly

I have an '01 car with Allianz, been with them for 6 years. This year was the first since starting that my policy went cheaper without even asking. I was expecting a big increase last year but it remained static, so was bracing myself for a big jump this year that never came. A bit of a head scratcher, but I'm not complaining.

Atlantic Dawn

What I want to know is why in the UK these very same companies have no such ban on cars 15 years old?

Daz95

It differs from company to company. Campions is 20 years . 30 years is for vintage tax

pauliebdub

My car is from 2004 and only this year have I seen a significant increase. I'll probably change the car in the new year. No claims or penalty points and I've seen a 20% increase.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What I want to know is why in the UK these very same companies have no such ban on cars 15 years old?

Either they banish all their incompetent and thieving staff to their Irish branches OR the Irish claims experience for these vehicles is higher than in the UK

Wibbs

vicwatson wrote: »

It's all ballcocks, we know that, the insurers know that, the gubberment know that, BUT NO ONE CARES unfortunately

Well someone cares. Getting "old" cars off the road increases sales of new cars, increases sales of finance for new cars, increases the tax take overall and makes the economy look more vibrant. The government and the banks and dealers and manufactures stand to gain. It's got eff all to do with "safety" or being "green" either, though that's usually the line peddled.

As for the insurance companies? Years of underquoting on policies in a race to the bottom and dubious investments of their capital means they're in a parlous state and are trying to cut costs everywhere(naturally). Refusing to insure or ramping up the cost of insuring older cars is to their advantage. The usual line trotted out that older cars are more likely to be used in fraud looks plausible on the surface and may well be the case for "bangers" bought for a hundred quid, but then why target older cars that cost far more/are seen as "classics" by owners, so far less likely to be used for fraud? The other one trotted out are the cost of claims. Again plausible on the surface, but those costs breakdowns are coming from the industry and only make up 30% of total claims paid out(70% are out of court for which no figures are forthcoming).

Outlaw Pete

I have a small penis a 00 D car and am insured with BOI for three years or so.

This year was the first year the premium didn't go up.

Wibbs

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What I want to know is why in the UK these very same companies have no such ban on cars 15 years old?

The insurance companies are in a better financial state. There are more of them so completion is higher. The population is significantly higher and claim costs are more transparent. Though it doesn't quite explain why they seem to be quite different in age of car/claim rate or that a car one could insure there for 400 euro could cost 3000 or more euro here. Even with their much larger population they seem to be better able to tailor to individuals too. EG take car security. In the UK if you have extra security that meets the Thatcham standards you will get a discount. Here security is rarely if ever mentioned, beyond the odd car model/type where they won't insure without a tracker(doesn't matter what kind). They won't give a discount mind you, they just won't insure it.

Wibbs

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I have a small penis a 00 D car and am insured with BOI for three years or so.

This year was the first year the premium didn't go up.

I'm beginning to hear of even some discounts and common sense being applied on existing policies for "old" cars. So hopefully.

Kenny Logins

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

The age of the car is one of many aspects to your individual circumstances on which insurers base their premiums. There is no answer to your question

I agree. I bought a new policy on a 17 year old car recently with no issues at all.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Theft or damage to the older car itself hardly comes in to the reckoning for insurers. It's all about injury claims

Wibbs

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Theft or damage to the older car itself hardly comes in to the reckoning for insurers. It's all about injury claims

I'd buy that if the insurance companies were transparent about their payouts and how different segments are the variable. But they're not. They just say "Car type X costs us more, so that's why. Take our word for it". 2/3rds of claim payouts are "off the books", yet the insurance industry points only to the 1/3rd that go to court and are in the public domain. Clearly with a ratio like that paying out of court is cheaper for the companies, or they wouldn't do it, but how cheaper we simply don't know. If cases go all the way to court they're going to result in far more costs and much higher payouts. Again if someone feels a case is strong(on both sides) they'll hold out for court.

sligojoek

I had an 01 car up to February.I renewed the policy in January and it only went up 100€. A week later they wrote to me and said my NCT was due in a month and they wanted a scan or photo of the cert or they would cancel the policy. The mechanic told me it was going to cost 500 just to take it to test and god knows what they'd find during the test. It was the kick in the ae$e I needed. I got a newer car and haven't looked back.

Pictures Of Lilly

Victor wrote: »

That will be down to the cost of the new car, the cost of insurance, how long you intend to keep the car and the discount rate you apply to future expenses.

the first half of that statement is obvious, the second half doesn't make any sense (or badly written)

BillyBobBS

Have a 1999 Ford Fiesta here and changed insurance companies last year no bother. Full no claims and never had as much as a parking ticket never mind points on licence. Cost me 485 euro and the car is worth about 300 go figure. Rip off bastards.

BillyBobBS

sligojoek wrote: »

I had an 01 car up to February.I renewed the policy in January and it only went up 100€. A week later they wrote to me and said my NCT was due in a month and they wanted a scan or photo of the cert or they would cancel the policy. The mechanic told me it was going to cost 500 just to take it to test and god knows what they'd find during the test. It was the kick in the ae$e I needed. I got a newer car and haven't looked back.

Just what they want. Keep the lads in the motor "industry" happy.

Pictures Of Lilly

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

The age of the car is one of many aspects to your individual circumstances on which insurers base their premiums. There is no answer to your question

well then, lets just assume all the other aspects are standard! Let's assume that I haven't been in a high speed chase. Let's assume the car doesn't have an ejectable seat!

Sue Pa Key Pa

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd buy that if the insurance companies were transparent about their payouts and how different segments are the variable. But they're not. They just say "Car type X costs us more, so that's why. Take our word for it". 2/3rds of claim payouts are "off the books", yet the insurance industry points only to the 1/3rd that go to court and are in the public domain. Clearly with a ratio like that paying out of court is cheaper for the companies, or they wouldn't do it, but how cheaper we simply don't know. If cases go all the way to court they're going to result in far more costs and much higher payouts. Again if someone feels a case is strong(on both sides) they'll hold out for court.

I know insurance is different because it is a compulsory purchase, but when you buy a car, washing machine or even a house, you don't ask the seller for a breakdown of his costs.

I fully agree that insurers should be more transparent, but to provide details of every private settlement would only increase the cost of claims. For example, an insurer could be on the verge of settling a whiplash claim for €5k and then they publish stats which show the average payout is €10k. The claimant is obviously going to hold out for more

Pictures Of Lilly

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Usually for those companies it's a blanket ban for cars 15 years old on a new quote only, however if you are with them already with the car they will continue to quote you when your car reaches 15 years old.

What I've typed in the thread above shows that I understand that. That's not what I'm asking.

Pictures Of Lilly

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

If the increase is modest, they are keen to retain your business. If the increase is substantial, they don't want your money, they want you to bugger off to another insurer

That doesn't make any sense. Is it supposed to be a joke?

Sue Pa Key Pa

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

well then, lets just assume all the other aspects are standard! Let's assume that I haven't been in a high speed chase. Let's assume the car doesn't have an ejectable seat!

The underwriting criteria is not that exotic. Your address will have different claims to one half a mile away, your age is a factor, it will be different for someone who works in an office to the person who washes it's windows.

In short, there is no such thing as standard

Sue Pa Key Pa

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense. Is it supposed to be a joke?

No deadly serious. If an insurer decides it doesn't like your profile, they will send you a renewal premium (they are obliged to offer you something) to make sure you will go elsewhere. They don't want you to pay the outrageous premium they quote you

freshpopcorn

My parents have a 1999 car insured with Allianz(Through a broker) with the last few years. It's full comprehensive/windscreen cover/no claims fully protected/breakdown assist. Comes in around €450 it's a bit dear because they use a broker. For about the last five years they've being dreading getting the renewal but so far it hasn't been an issue.

jackofalltrades

Wibbs wrote: »

In the UK if you have extra security that meets the Thatcham standards you will get a discount. Here security is rarely if ever mentioned, beyond the odd car model/type where they won't insure without a tracker(doesn't matter what kind). They won't give a discount mind you, they just won't insure it.

Exactly, they have insurance groups in the UK where they seem to have sat down and worked out the risk of each car.
Over here it's just "what size is the engine?"
My last car was towards the lower end of the insurance group scale in the UK.
It was a big, heavy car, running through an old style automatic gearbox.
Over here the mere thought of insuring a 2 litre diesel car seemed to make insurers nervous.

Pictures Of Lilly

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

The underwriting criteria is not that exotic. Your address will have different claims to one half a mile away, your age is a factor, it will be different for someone who works in an office to the person who washes it's windows.

In short, there is no such thing as standard

Well then, what if everyone had exactly the same criteria, except for the car year, make/model! What would be the cheapest option then?

Pictures Of Lilly

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

No deadly serious. If an insurer decides it doesn't like your profile, they will send you a renewal premium (they are obliged to offer you something) to make sure you will go elsewhere. They don't want you to pay the outrageous premium they quote you

But why wouldn't they?

Sue Pa Key Pa

Because their experience shows them that a particular set of circumstances has lost them a disproportionate amount of money. Why would they continue to sell a product at a loss?

Pictures Of Lilly

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Because their experience shows them that a particular set of circumstances has lost them a disproportionate amount of money. Why would they continue to sell a product at a loss?

Well if that's really the truth, then it would be incorrect to say that it'd be an "outrageous premium". In fact, if they're likely to lose money on my behalf, then the only thing that would be outrageous is how I'm fleecing them! We're going around in circles.

Discodog

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I agree. I bought a new policy on a 17 year old car recently with no issues at all.

Can you post where on the Insurance forum thread. A lot of people would love to know

I am a mature driver, full no claims, no accidents, no convictions & mine has just doubled.

My insurance would be 75% less if I were in the UK

Are Am Eye

You want to deal with someone who's not part of the Cartel operating in this country. You'll halve your premium.
MCL in Coleraine for example.

Huawei Gallagher

00 small petrol Car and with Allianz, has not gone up too much for me. I am old git and have a light year of no claims bonus. Huge tax on my other car pre-08 (04)diesel is a much bigger problem, put me off the road and made the car worthless to sell. I swap back and forth between cars on insurance every now and then too no issues. I would bet they might refuse boy-racer performance car young driver and use the 15 year thing as an excuse. The insurance rip off has been going on in this country for 40 years, every now and then news reports on it, government says tut-tut to insurers but does nothing. Normally I used to swap insurers every single year as they will all put an extra hundred on your premium at the next renewal regardless of who you are with, but Allianz seem consistent with renewal premium.

Pictures Of Lilly

Got a quote on my 21 yr old car through chill, with a company called patrona. I got it for €720 less than my renewal price!

That's that issue sorted for another year.

Discodog

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

Got a quote on my 21 yr old car through chill, with a company called patrona. I got it for €720 less than my renewal price!

That's that issue sorted for another year.

That's strange because I was insured with them but on renewal my broker said that they no longer insured older cars

ChikiChiki

Here in Oz theres a lot of well maintained cars on the road that are 15 yrs old plus and no such policies exist. Tax, insurance and the equivalent of NCT is included in the rego when you buy the car.

Ireland is a country where the sole aim is to fleece people by any means. This is allowed from the top and needs to change.

Kenny Logins

Discodog wrote: »

Can you post where on the Insurance forum thread. A lot of people would love to know

I am a mature driver, full no claims, no accidents, no convictions & mine has just doubled.

My insurance would be 75% less if I were in the UK

Axa.

The point was that it's your personal circumstances that make the difference, not the car.

ohnonotgmail

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Here in Oz theres a lot of well maintained cars on the road that are 15 yrs old plus and no such policies exist. Tax, insurance and the equivalent of NCT is included in the rego when you buy the car.

Ireland is a country where the sole aim is to fleece people by any means. This is allowed from the top and needs to change.

How much per year is the rego in oz?

ChikiChiki

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

How much per year is the rego in oz?

Usually between $300 - $600 per year depending on car weight. Not bad all things considered.

Insurance in Ireland is the biggest scam.