RTE new show: This Crowded House.

Hollister11

RTE are airing a new show in the upcoming weeks/months called This Crowded House.

From their website

This Crowded House
With rising rents, low wages and a lack of accommodation, it's no wonder that around one in four Irish people over 25 is still living at home with their parents.

25 isn't exactly old to be moving out. Especially when people are only finishing college at 22. They wouldn't have enough money to buy a house.

My dad moved out at 26, my mum at 23. The only reason they moved is because they had a kid, and my grandad bought them a house.

Is it an irish thing to still be living with parents, or is it becoming the norm now days.

LirW

I think they had a show a few months ago about this where they've shown 4 cases. Oh god, it was so depressing to watch, especially when you were stuck for 15 months too.
Many people have very little choice, when they want/ have to live in the capital or any major city really. Having not even 3000 rental properties advertised across the country is next to nothing on a population of 4 million.

dancingqueen

I am from the country and have lived out of home since I was 18. I moved to Dublin and started renting... and almost 15 years later, I am still renting. Everyone has different circumstances when it comes to moving out; I just couldn't bear the idea of staying in a small rural village with nothing in it for any longer than I had to.

wordofwarning

Hollister11 wrote: »

Is it an irish thing to still be living with parents, or is it becoming the norm now days.

I think living at home is finally more accepted in Ireland. If you were training in the big four on a small enough salary, you are seen as a failure by some people to be living in your parents plush house in suburbs. Whereas someone living in a horrific bedsit eating beans as their rent was so high and struggling to get by was seen as more mature and respected by some. It made no sense that the person making the poor financial decision is the admired individual in this circumstance

Living at home longer is becoming the norm in places like the states and rightly so. What is wrong with living rent free or contributing something to your parents living in a nice house in the suburbs rather than living in a damp kip in a dog rough part of Dublin? Yes it is nice to have freedom etc. But you should not be pushing yourself into poverty to do so

I can imagine this is another stellar show from RTE... I imagine something along the lines of we are supposed to be shocked about a family of four living in a massive four bedroom house in the suburbs. How can they cope with living in crowded and squalid conditions?

People are in education and training longer these days. We just need to accept that and not try to make a budget TV show out of it

pilly

wordofwarning wrote: »

I think living at home is finally more accepted in Ireland. If you were training in the big four on a small enough salary, you are seen as a failure by some people to be living in your parents plush house in suburbs. Whereas someone living in a horrific bedsit eating beans as their rent was so high and struggling to get by was seen as more mature and respected by some. It made no sense that the person making the poor financial decision is the admired individual in this circumstance

Living at home longer is becoming the norm in places like the states and rightly so. What is wrong with living rent free or contributing something to your parents living in a nice house in the suburbs rather than living in a damp kip in a dog rough part of Dublin? Yes it is nice to have freedom etc. But you should not be pushing yourself into poverty to do so

I can imagine this is another stellar show from RTE... I imagine something along the lines of we are supposed to be shocked about a family of four living in a massive four bedroom house in the suburbs. How can they cope with living in crowded and squalid conditions?

People are in education and training longer these days. We just need to accept that and not try to make a budget TV show out of it

That's exactly what's wrong with it, your sponging off your parents. They've done their job raising you, how long do you expect them to support you?

LirW

Well, don't hate the player, hate the game.
If you're living in Dublin, where we think we all know how difficult it is to find something to rent, and you're just about to start out after graduating you can run to viewings for months to find some tiny overpriced bedsit if you're lucky. Plus you need references (I give you that, the landlord ones are fairly easy to fake). For plenty of young people on a slim paycheck it's seriously hard.
I don't see anything wrong staying with your parents once they are happy with it. Otherwise it wouldn't work anyway, too much resentment building up.

o1s1n

I've found one common thing among a lot of people mid 20s+ who never moved out and are still living with their parents - no concept to the cost of running a home.

The idea of living with your parents 'rent free' is an absolutely ridiculous level of entitlement. You're no longer an adolescent at that age, you're an adult. Pay your own way.

pilly

LirW wrote: »

Well, don't hate the player, hate the game.
If you're living in Dublin, where we think we all know how difficult it is to find something to rent, and you're just about to start out after graduating you can run to viewings for months to find some tiny overpriced bedsit if you're lucky. Plus you need references (I give you that, the landlord ones are fairly easy to fake). For plenty of young people on a slim paycheck it's seriously hard.
I don't see anything wrong staying with your parents once they are happy with it. Otherwise it wouldn't work anyway, too much resentment building up.

That's not actually true though is it? For a kick off bedsits aren't allowed anymore so the old vision of a young fella living is squalor in a bedsit is long gone.

There are plenty of options, 3 or 4 lads/girls between them can afford to rent a lovely house. A couple can afford a one bedroom apartment.

There are loads of foreign people living on minimum wage who have no option but to rent and they manage.

My son rents in Dublin city centre, himself and a pal. Small 2 bedroom, not the greatest of areas but they're big enough and hairy enough to look after themselves and very happy there.

It's all about learning to live independently before you get married.

LirW

I don't disagree with independence, but in the first place the 3-4 people need to find a place in this VERY competitive market. Not everyone has a partner to live with.
And bedsits, while they don't exist anymore, are replaced by a handful of substandard dog house studios.
What I'm talking about is that you actually have to find a place first in a market where people are willing to queue around the block and offer a multiple of the monthly rent as a deposit. I know a few people myself that really struggle with that, one guy had to few places for months until he found a room in a share.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

That's exactly what's wrong with it, your sponging off your parents. They've done their job raising you, how long do you expect them to support you?

They are your parents ffs, living in your home, in your bedroom is not even on the same planet as sponging. Whats more most parents are delighted to still have their children living with them and being able help them out by not seeing them waste mountains of money on rent.

Honestly I don't really know how people get these sorts of opinions but its not an opinion I ever encounter in real life, only a few people on boards. In fact its the exact opposite opinion I often come across with parents trying to discourage their children from moving out to rent as they see it as a waste of money when they can still live at home.

Sad Professor

What does "living at home" mean anyway? Just living with a parent? Or living with parents who own their own home and let you live in it all or mostly rent-free?

pilly

Sad Professor wrote: »

What does "living at home" mean anyway? Just living with a parent? Or living with parents who own their own home and let you live in it all or mostly rent-free?

I don't understand your question? Both those things are the same?

Lumen

Finnley High Shrapnel wrote: »

They are your parents ffs, living in your home, in your bedroom is not even on the same planet as sponging. Whats more most parents are delighted to still have their children living with them and being able help them out by not seeing them waste mountains of money on rent.

Honestly I don't really know how people get these sorts of opinions but its not an opinion I ever encounter in real life, only a few people on boards. In fact its the exact opposite opinion I often come across with parents trying to discourage their children from moving out to rent as they see it as a waste of money when they can still live at home.

In my generation of my culture, nobody lived at home after the age of 18 unless they were unemployed. I can't recall a single school friend who went to a local university, even though the local university was good.

At university I had accommodation provided (at low rent) in the first year, and lived in a shared apartment for the subsequent years. After university I got a job right away and lived in a further series of shared properties until I got married.

This wasn't a function of cheap rent either. In my early twenties I paid up to 40% of my after-tax income in rent. Going back home would have severely limited my career options and besides, I enjoyed the sense of independence.

But that is just my experience. There is nothing right or wrong about this either way. On the one hand, having full independence from one's parents is the very definition of adulthood. On the other, what's the point in throwing money away on rent if there is space in your parent's home?

Whatever.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

But that is just my experience. There is nothing right or wrong about this either way. On the one hand, having full independence from one's parents is the very definition of adulthood. On the other, what's the point in throwing money away on rent if there is space in your parent's home?

Whatever.

I agree there is nothing wrong with it either way, I wasn't saying there was. If someone wants to move out at 18 or 30, then fair enough.

I just can't stand some of the nonsense that gets posted about it being "sponging" or "no adult should live at home" etc etc etc.

awec

Finnley High Shrapnel wrote: »

I agree there is nothing wrong with it either way, I wasn't saying there was. If someone wants to move out at 18 or 30, then fair enough.

I just can't stand some of the nonsense that gets posted about it being "sponging" or "no adult should live at home" etc etc etc.

It's is 100% sponging. You are avoiding costs by having your parents pay for you instead. There is no other way to describe it.

Some people are happy enough with this and some parents are happy to do it, but it's still sponging at the end of the day.

awec

awec wrote: »

It's is 100% sponging. You are avoiding costs by having your parents pay for you instead. There is no other way to describe it.

Some people are happy enough with this and some parents are happy to do it, but it's still sponging at the end of the day.

But you are living with your parents, at home. It's no more sponging than an 8 year old living at home is sponging. Its your home for gods sake. How can people not see that.

Also what are your parents paying for you assuming you share the esb, heating and food costs? Their mortgage per month isn't less because you are not living there.

Lumen

Aside from whether it's sponging or not sponging, in an RPZ it's better for people outside your family that you live at home, unless your bedroom would otherwise be occupied by a RAR licensee.

Arcade_Tryer

awec wrote: »

It's is 100% sponging. You are avoiding costs by having your parents pay for you instead. There is no other way to describe it.

Some people are happy enough with this and some parents are happy to do it, but it's still sponging at the end of the day.

Some people view it as sponging; some don't. Some people view receiving welfare as sponging; some don't. Some people might think receiving gifts is sponging; some don't. And so on and so forth.

awec

Gwendolyn Tasteless Baby wrote: »

But you are living with your parents, at home. It's no more sponging than an 8 year old living at home is sponging. Its your home for gods sake. How can people not see that.

Also what are your parents paying for you assuming you share the esb, heating and food costs? Their mortgage per month isn't less because you are not living there.

The fact you're comparing it with an 8 year old says it all Gwendolyn Tasteless Baby. You cannot see the wood for the trees.

Of course 8 year olds sponge, they're children. :pac:

Mrs OBumble

Hollister11 wrote: »

My dad moved out at 26, my mum at 23. The only reason they moved is because they had a kid, and my grandad bought them a house. .

Another way to look at it is that they were such absolute scroungers that their father finally copped that the only way he would get his own house back was to buy them one of their own.

Not something to be proud of, IMHO.



Re some of the later posts, what Nox usually forgets to mention is that when he lived at home, he did actually work on the farm. So while he's not paying in cash, he is doing so in kind. This is perfectly acceptable for adult-children who are working in the family business (farm, shop, pub, whatever). But ones who aren't are just immature scroungers.

Macha

Why is this being discussed as if there's no rental crisis going on?

April 73

Maybe it's just my age but bar a few years in the recent recession there's always been a rental crisis in Dublin as far as I can see.
I saw a friend's older sister share a tiny baseflat in the late 80s while they were both in UCD. My then boyfriend had a bed sit in Dublin in the early 90s where the bed was on a platform hanging from the ceiling. Then he shared a bedroom with another poor unfortunate stranger in the next house. This was mid 90s. Early 2000s my sister shared a tiny grotty bedsit in Rathmines with a stranger to have a place to live while she was in college. Two ring cooker & two miniature beds crammed into a pocket-sized room. People have queued for flats for years in Dublin & paid stupid rent for really terrible places.

As for living at home - it's acceptable if you're a student, probably acceptable for a year or two in your first job to build up some savings. Then adults should be living independent lives and funding themselves. By your late 20s it's a bit odd to still be living with your parents. But I'll qualify that by saying I moved away to go to college at 17 so that attitude is a product of my own history.

sunrainmooncl

Typical that the guy with over 32k posts on an online forum has a strong opinion on this!!

Living at home is fully dependent on your family dynamics. Every family is different.

Arcade_Tryer

awec wrote: »

The fact you're comparing it with an 8 year old says it all Gwendolyn Tasteless Baby. You cannot see the wood for the trees.

Of course 8 year olds sponge, they're children. :pac:

It's not necessarily a binary event. Unless you can understand fully the utility function of every parent with an adult child living at home in the world, then throwing around terms like "sponging" is both stupid and biased. Not to mention incredibly condescending and ignorant. But maybe that's my bias.

Hollister11

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Another way to look at it is that they were such absolute scroungers that their father finally copped that the only way he would get his own house back was to buy them one of their own.

Not something to be proud of, IMHO.



Re some of the later posts, what Nox usually forgets to mention is that when he lived at home, he did actually work on the farm. So while he's not paying in cash, he is doing so in kind. This is perfectly acceptable for adult-children who are working in the family business (farm, shop, pub, whatever). But ones who aren't are just immature scroungers.

He bought all 8 of his kids a property. He was a wealthy man, wanted to give his kids a start in life, without taking away the need for them to work.

Do you ever have anything nice to say tbh? You critisce everyone on boards. You post history is shocking.

Graham

Mod Note attack the post not the poster. If you have an issue with a thread please report it rather than retaliating.

Diarmuid

wordofwarning wrote: »

What is wrong with living rent free or contributing something to your parents living in a nice house in the suburbs rather than living in a damp kip in a dog rough part of Dublin?

The problem is that you are presenting those two alternatives as the only options. If this is where we are at it's time to look at what going wrong and resolve that, as opposed to accepting that people in their late 20's only (realistic) option, is to remain at home in their parents house

AlmightyCushion

awec wrote: »

It's is 100% sponging. You are avoiding costs by having your parents pay for you instead. There is no other way to describe it.

Some people are happy enough with this and some parents are happy to do it, but it's still sponging at the end of the day.

So, going around to your parents for dinner or travelling home the odd weekend and staying in your parents' house is scrounging as well because they're not paying for food or a hotel.

myshirt

You have to ask, does anyone truly give a sh't about the housing crisis? At any one given time how many people are looking for houses versus how many already have houses? Maybe 90:10?

The people who already have houses is where you get your votes, not the people who don't have houses. These people are delighted with the lack of supply / property inflation taking them out of negative equity and putting more money in their pocket etc, and the government know this. The banks balance sheets have not fared bad either.

I do not think there is anything necessarily abnormal or wrong about all this, but it is a bit rich for people to 'care', but just as long as it doesn't hit their doorstep or personal pocket. Take for example the huge resistance to any level of restriction of CGT relief on PPR's, look at the resistance of people to lowering CAT thresholds, and rasing CAT rates.

We have an abnormal market which emerged from direct government intervention benefiting one class above another, but no one wants to face up to what's required to rebalance this.

pilly

myshirt wrote:

The people who already have houses is where you get your votes, not the people who don't have houses. These people are delighted with the lack of supply / property inflation taking them out of negative equity and putting more money in their pocket etc, and the government know this. The banks balance sheets have not fared bad either.

People who already have houses usually have sons and daughters they can't get rid of too!

amtc

I didn't leave home until I was 30. I still have the number in my phone as home. I was earning very good money but had a v active social life and travelling for work a lot so didn't see my parents all that much. My mam wouldn't be the best cook (she tries but tends to put the weirdest things on for the same amount of time...one Christmas we had turkey, ham, pizza and indian sides) so I used to buy food and cook for all. To be honest with you we never saw each other as we were three adults. I never paid cash towards bills but I did buy my parents conservatory furniture, and got the garden landscaped.

Since I left home I've never stayed there a night. Took a lot of growing up to realise bills were mine and mine only!

Sunny Disposition

Finnley High Shrapnel wrote: »

But you are living with your parents, at home. It's no more sponging than an 8 year old living at home is sponging. Its your home for gods sake. How can people not see that.

Also what are your parents paying for you assuming you share the esb, heating and food costs? Their mortgage per month isn't less because you are not living there.

I could certainly understand only helping out with bills if the parents have the whole mortgage cleared. But surely if the parents are still paying a mortgage their sons and daughters who are working should be paying some kind of contribution if they are living there? Especially if they have been there for more than a year or so after finishing education?
IMO it couldn't really be called sponging if 20 year old making small wages doing an apprenticeship is living at home and just paying for his upkeep. But if the same young fella is 25 and had been qualified for four years and is making a good wage it'd be unfair for his parents to be forking out every month for his accommodation without him contributing.
It'd be different if there is no rent or mortgage to be paid, but if there is then he should certainly be contributing.

Hollister11

My mum was talking to a friend, a day their eldest son just got his instead job.

He make €500 a week, and is moaning about paying his parents €60 a week.

He drops €200 a week on socialising ect.

Bass Reeves

myshirt wrote: »

I do not think there is anything necessarily abnormal or wrong about all this, but it is a bit rich for people to 'care', but just as long as it doesn't hit their doorstep or personal pocket. Take for example the huge resistance to any level of restriction of CGT relief on PPR's, look at the resistance of people to lowering CAT thresholds, and rasing CAT rates..

And how will changing CGT on PPR's and changing CAT help solve the housing crisis

gmisk

Watching an episode of this now....288 euro a month on a phone bill....and a delusional woman crying like a child at the prospect of having to share with people zzz

Hollister11

gmisk wrote: »

Watching an episode of this now....288 euro a month on a phone bill....and a delusional woman crying like a child at the prospect of having to share with people zzz

I was watching also. The phone was ridiculous. Mines €10 a month...

LoughNeagh2017

Niamh can live with me any day so she can.

I don't get why the Ciaran fellow just can't go get a woman so he can buy somewhere more expensive.

w/s/p/c/

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

Niamh can live with me any day so she can.

I don't get why the Ciaran fellow just can't go get a woman so he can buy somewhere more expensive.

That guy needed a reality check.  He didn't realise mortgages are related to salaries and expected to get a house for EUR 80k in this market that he could turn the key and move in.  Plus he didn't want to sell his car which he had an unpaid loan on and by selling it he could pay the loan and downgrade to a second hand older one.  Absolutely clueless.

witchgirl26

pilly wrote: »

That's exactly what's wrong with it, your sponging off your parents. They've done their job raising you, how long do you expect them to support you?

I lived at home until I was 25. I was a fully qualified accountant. I wasn't sponging. I paid my way at home in terms of paying my mam rent which included bills and helped out with normal household things and shopping. Honestly it just made a hell of a lot more sense than moving into a house full of strangers where I may have been paying more for a lot less.

I think sponging only comes into it if you're still expecting your parents to look after you completely and aren't contributing to the house at all. I didn't expect my mam to support me financially at all & I doubt a large number of people who are still at home as adults expect that.

gmisk

w/s/p/c/ wrote: »

That guy needed a reality check. He didn't realise mortgages are related to salaries and expected to get a house for EUR 80k in this market that he could turn the key and move in. Plus he didn't want to sell his car which he had an unpaid loan on and by selling it he could pay the loan and downgrade to a second hand older one. Absolutely clueless.

Totally agree what an eejit, totally delusional!
I think most people realise when they buy their first home it isnt likely going to be a show house...mine had single glazing which rattled when I closed the door!
That house for 80k was a steal any wonder it went for 155!!!

Property around Navan must be extremely good value if its possible to get a property for 80k. His income must be low if he could only get a mortgage for 80k so would buying be a good idea the program never explored that.

Cuddlesworth

mariaalice wrote: »

Property around Navan must be extremely good value if its possible to get a property for 80k. His income must be low if he could only get a mortgage for 80k so would buying be a good idea the program never explored that.

They didn't go for 80k, they went for much higher. Price low at the bottom end, it generates interest, creates a sense of competition and drives up the prices.

Bass Reeves

w/s/p/c/ wrote: »

That guy needed a reality check.  He didn't realise mortgages are related to salaries and expected to get a house for EUR 80k in this market that he could turn the key and move in.  Plus he didn't want to sell his car which he had an unpaid loan on and by selling it he could pay the loan and downgrade to a second hand older one.  Absolutely clueless.

What is worse his bad habits and unrealistic expectations are reinforced by his father. The acceptance of giving him a dig out and not having to sell the car re-enforce's the feeling that you do not have to make scarfices to get on in life, it leads to a lifestyle where you only think about yourself.

I see this as an issue that some in the generation that are in there 20'sand 30's consider that you never have to make lifestyle choices. That you do not have to make choices about the way you spend money. That you do not have to save, that credit card bill's are immaterial. That latte's, eating out, weekend away's etc are a right and need not be scarficed to allow you to achieve other life choices

Paddytheman

mariaalice wrote: »

Property around Navan must be extremely good value if its possible to get a property for 80k. His income must be low if he could only get a mortgage for 80k so would buying be a good idea the program never explored that.

Think they said he was on €30,000 odd, but savings of €9,000 vs car loan of €8,500 when living at home wouldnt really entice any lender. A couple of those €80,000 properties were in Baileborough in Cavan.

lisasimpson

I liked the show but next series a bit more outside of dublin. I really liked the fact brendan can be tough with them about reality. All these ones not wanting to move too far from home... heĺlo half of dublin are blow in and they survive.. i really do wonder about generation entitlement. What will they do when there is no mammy and daddy to bank roll them

Cuddlesworth

lisasimpson wrote: »

I liked the show but next series a bit more outside of dublin. I really liked the fact brendan can be tough with them about reality. All these ones not wanting to move too far from home... heĺlo half of dublin are blow in and they survive.. i really do wonder about generation entitlement. What will they do when there is no mammy and daddy to bank roll them

I think the problem with "out of Dublin/city" is that it's not that hard to save at home on a half decent wage and get your own house. I mean they had to find a mid 30's guy with effectively zero savings and a dependant, who was pretty bad at his finances, to get good TV.