Neighbour making false complaints.

Shelli2

Long story short. Got permission from landlady through letting agency to have a dog.
I'm bloody fuming. Our neighbours sister has made false complaints direct to our landlady that the dog is barking day and night. We 100% know they are not as they are recorded on camera for the periods of time we are not here.
Landlady won't speak with us directly and has informed us through the agency that she doesn't care if the complaints are true or not, she doesn't want the hassle and has changed her mind about the dog.
And get this, the woman who complained doesn't even live next door, she only visits. And we spoke with the man who actually lives there and he has no problem with the dogs.
We knocked in to try have a conversation with her and she rudely dismissed us, stating she had also reported us to the DSPCA!!!
She clearly has issues. But we have no idea how to deal with this!
The RTB have told us to record all communication, which we are doing.

Anyone else ever face something like this?

Browney7

Shelli2 wrote: »

Long story short. Got permission from landlady through letting agency to have a dog.
I'm bloody fuming. Our neighbours sister has made false complaints direct to our landlady that the dog is barking day and night. We 100% know they are not as they are recorded on camera for the periods of time we are not here.
Landlady won't speak with us directly and has informed us through the agency that she doesn't care if the complaints are true or not, she doesn't want the hassle and has changed her mind about the dog.
And get this, the woman who complained doesn't even live next door, she only visits. And we spoke with the man who actually lives there and he has no problem with the dogs.
We knocked in to try have a conversation with her and she rudely dismissed us, stating she had also reported us to the DSPCA!!!
She clearly has issues. But we have no idea how to deal with this!
The RTB have told us to record all communication, which we are doing.

Anyone else ever face something like this?

Wait and see if she takes a third party dispute to the RTB - she'll have no problem proving it if it's true...

Hitman3000

Browney7 wrote:

Wait and see if she takes a third party dispute to the RTB - she'll have no problem proving it if it's true...

The landlady has changed her mind and withdrawn permission for the dog to be there.

Browney7

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The landlady has changed her mind and withdrawn permission for the dog to be there.

Just say the dog is gone so. If the dog doesn't make noise, what dog?

BrokenArrows

I dont think the landlady can withdraw permission on something like this.
Permission was granted and you got a dog based on that permission.

Spanish Eyes

I don't blame landlady. Are you in apt or house here? Unless the lease says pets are welcome it is only landlady's word. She wants no hassle, and I don't blame her.

Dog owners can be delusional. A former neighbour never realised his dog barked day and night. Even at nighttime when he was there the yapping dog never bothered him, but drove his neighbours nuts. Gone now thank god.

I know OP has cameras and the like, but dogs can cause issues other than barking.

I don't think you will succeed. Landlady has all the cards, as I said, unless when you first rented the lease did not exclude pets. Word of mouth from the LL is not enough.

Hitman3000

BrokenArrows wrote:

I dont think the landlady can withdraw permission on something like this. Permission was granted and you got a dog based on that permission.

The landlady has stated she doesn't want agro. Does the OP value good relations with there landlady or the company of a dog more.

Topper Harley

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The landlady has stated she doesn't want agro.

If she doesn't want agro, trying to force someone to either get rid of their dogs or out of where they live isn't the way to go.

Topper Harley

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I don't think you will succeed. Landlady has all the cards, as I said, unless when you first rented the lease did not exclude pets. Word of mouth from the LL is not enough.

But permission was given by the landlady through the letting agent so it's not just her word. The OP has acted in good faith upon getting permission. Not all agreements have to be in writing to be binding (within reason).



OP, you say the landlady won't speak to you directly, yet she will speak to your neighbour, so they must know each other. I wonder if the landlady just changed her mind and is using the neighbour to help get them out of their agreement.

And if the DSPCA get involved, could that work in your favour, in that it could show that the dogs are looked after properly and not doing any harm.

Hitman3000

Topper Harley wrote:

If she doesn't want agro, trying to force someone to either get rid of their dogs or out of where they live isn't the way to go.

I read the first post, curious the OP says he got verbal permission for a dog. They then go to mention 'dogs'. So did they get permission for one dog but have 'dog's. Maybe they can clear up that point.

Shelli2

To be clear. We have permission in writing.
We have two dogs.

We were advised by the RTB to have a conversation directly with the LL, the agency has stated she does not want to speak with us and have refused to give us her details.

My issue here is that the complaints are definitely not warranted. We are a quiet family and are not 'delusional dog owners'.
We have written statements from other neighbours that the dogs are very quiet and not a nuisance. We have video recordings of the dogs, who are only left for a max of 3hrs each day, and who sleep for this time as they are walked each morning before bring left.

Tigger

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The landlady has changed her mind and withdrawn permission for the dog to be there.

Not a pet owner I'd guess

magentis

Shelli2 wrote: »

To be clear. We have permission in writing.
We have two dogs.

We were advised by the RTB to have a conversation directly with the LL, the agency has stated she does not want to speak with us and have refused to give us her details.

My issue here is that the complaints are definitely not warranted. We are a quiet family and are not 'delusional dog owners'.
We have written statements from other neighbours that the dogs are very quiet and not a nuisance. We have video recordings of the dogs, who are only left for a max of 3hrs each day, and who sleep for this time as they are walked each morning before bring left.

Are the dogs straying into the neighbours garden?

Hitman3000

Tigger wrote:

Not a pet owner I'd guess

You guessed wrong, but I assume there is a point to your guess. Care to share?

Shelli2

magentis wrote: »

Are the dogs straying into the neighbours garden?

One dog did once. We knocked in and apologised immediately, the man that lives there was very pleasant, we have a good relationship with him. He even offered to let us into his garden to block up any holes from that side.
We installed a dog run immediately and it has not happened since.

The woman who has complained to our landlady doesn't live there.

nuckeythompson

What breed of dogs are they

Topper Harley

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You guessed wrong, but I assume there is a point to your guess. Care to share?

I think they were referring to the landlady.

Hitman3000

Topper Harley wrote:

I think they were referring to the landlady.

You're right. I jumped the gun.

Shelli2

nuckeythompson wrote: »

What breed of dogs are they

A tiny mongrel (he's only 4.5kg) and a pom.

qrx

It seems strange that someone would go to the bother for no reason. You mentioned she is going to go to the DSPCA, maybe there is something about your setup that upsets her? How long are the dogs left alone? Ideally dogs should not be left alone for more than 2-3 hours otherwise an owner should really consider whether they are a suitable pet for them. If they are left alone in a dog run for longer than a couple of hours on a daily basis then I'd guess that is probably what has upset her.

Shelli2

qrx wrote: »

It seems strange that someone would go to the bother for no reason. You mentioned she is going to go to the DSPCA, maybe there is something about your setup that upsets her? How long are the dogs left alone? Ideally dogs should not be left alone for more than 2-3 hours otherwise an owner should really consider whether they are a suitable pet for them. If they are left alone in a dog run for longer than a couple of hours on a daily basis then I'd guess that is probably what has upset her.

As stated above, they are never left for more than 3 hours. The dog run is 12ft square and is connected to a conservatory which runs the length of the house. We had a home check from the adoption agency before getting our second dog and they said they were very impressed with our set up. I work from home a lot and the dogs come with me whenever feasible when I go out.
It's just not possible to have them with me 24hrs a day.

There's no talking to this woman unfortunately.
We are in a good position to fight this with the LL, but what this woman is doing is tantamount to harassment, and we don't know why she's picked on us and what we can do to stop it.
I'm worried that she won't stop at the dogs, are our kids next to be complained about?

SteM

Shelli2 wrote: »

As stated above, they are never left for more than 3 hours. The dog run is 12ft square and is connected to a conservatory which runs the length of the house. We had a home check from the adoption agency before getting our second dog and they said they were very impressed with our set up. I work from home a lot and the dogs come with me whenever feasible when I go out.
It's just not possible to have them with me 24hrs a day.

There's no talking to this woman unfortunately.
We are in a good position to fight this with the LL, but what this woman is doing is tantamount to harassment, and we don't know why she's picked on us and what we can do to stop it.
I'm worried that she won't stop at the dogs, are our kids next to be complained about?

Why do you feel you are in a good position to fight this with the LL? Personally I disagree. If you refuse the get rid of the dogs then the LL will probably just give you notice at the first available opportunity. Difficult to find a new home with 2 dogs, it's hard enough without pets.

Does your written agreement say you can have 2 dogs or 1 dog or is it specified? In your OP you said 'Got permission from landlady through letting agency to have a dog.'. Is there any way she can argue that permission was given for 1 only?

Best of luck OP.

TheChizler

SteM wrote: »

If you refuse the get rid of the dogs then the LL will probably just give you notice at the first available opportunity. Difficult to find a new home with 2 dogs, it's hard enough without pets.

Based on what? The OP is acting completely within the terms of the agreement with the landlord. If the terms are to change they both need to agree or else one is breaking the contract.

Unless they're coming up to the 4 (or is it 6 now?) year anniversary of starting there's no other reasonable opportunity for her to remove them.

SteM

TheChizler wrote: »

Based on what? The OP is acting completely within the terms of the agreement with the landlord. If the terms are to change they both need to agree or else one is breaking the contract.

Unless they're coming up to the 4 (or is it 6 now?) year anniversary of starting there's no other reasonable opportunity for her to remove them.

I said at the first available opportunity, based on that.

You don't know when that will be and neither do I. LL might need the property for a family member all of a sudden.

Shelli2

I entered my 3rd year lease in March. Does that matter?

Maybe I'm posting in the wrong place. I guess the advice I'm really looking for is how to deal with the woman making false complaints against us.
The RTB have been extremely helpful in advising us on how to deal with the LL/Agency, so I'm confidant that we can resolve that issue.

Who is the complainer to your neighbour? Is she caring for an elderly person or something like this? Otherwise approach the actual neighbour and explain your trouble with their visitor.

Shelli2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who is the complainer to your neighbour? Is she caring for an elderly person or something like this? Otherwise approach the actual neighbour and explain your trouble with their visitor.

Our neighbour is a man who lives next door and cares for his elderly mother who also lives there.
The woman complaining is his sister who visits but does not live there.
The man is lovely and has apologised to us for his sister's actions, but it doesn't stop her.

spaceHopper

Shelli2 wrote: »

I entered my 3rd year lease in March. Does that matter?

Maybe I'm posting in the wrong place. I guess the advice I'm really looking for is how to deal with the woman making false complaints against us.
The RTB have been extremely helpful in advising us on how to deal with the LL/Agency, so I'm confidant that we can resolve that issue.

Not really she as asked you to rehome the dogs.

You could ask the RTB to mediate, if she refuses it may strengthen your case.

Before you do find our your exact situation, the RTB should be able to set you straight, the law changed last year.

With a new lease after 6 months you have part 4 rights and you can't be asked to leave with in 3.5 years for no reason. But in the first six months you can be asked to leave without a reason. That ran in 4 year blocks. Now it's six and possibly in the send term you can't be asked to leave, without a reason. You may be covered under the old system in which case in a year your LL could ask you to move out at the end of the 4 year block giving 16 weeks notice.

Pick you battles, the RTB might take your side but your LL could simply wait and ask you to go that will take them 18 months ish.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

Ms Doubtfire1

Shelli2 wrote: »

I entered my 3rd year lease in March. Does that matter?

Maybe I'm posting in the wrong place. I guess the advice I'm really looking for is how to deal with the woman making false complaints against us.
The RTB have been extremely helpful in advising us on how to deal with the LL/Agency, so I'm confidant that we can resolve that issue.

I would first of all have a talk with the person this whinger is visiting and state quite clearly that your dogs don't cause any hassle.Furthermore try to figure out WHY she is complaining-see if there's anything you can do to deescalate the situation. BUT, if poush comes to shove - she doesn't live in the area and has no say in the matter at all. I'd be pretty straight forward telling her to *** off and get a life. But try the sweet approach first...

Askthe EA

Shelli2 wrote: »

We installed a dog run immediately and it has not happened since.

Thats the problem I'd bet......

GoldFour4

I find it bizarre that the landlord/agency would take the complaint seriously when it was from someone other than the actual neighbour?

Hitman3000

malistheman wrote:

I find it bizarre that the landlord/agency would take the complaint seriously when it was from someone other than the actual neighbour?

Poms and most small dogs in general are fairly yappie. I find it hard to believe that said dogs are quiet for the 3 hours each day they are on their own. Maybe the neighbour wants his sis to do the 'dirty' work for him.

Pelvis

SteM wrote: »

Why do you feel you are in a good position to fight this with the LL? Personally I disagree. If you refuse the get rid of the dogs then the LL will probably just give you notice at the first available opportunity. Difficult to find a new home with 2 dogs, it's hard enough without pets.

Does your written agreement say you can have 2 dogs or 1 dog or is it specified? In your OP you said 'Got permission from landlady through letting agency to have a dog.'. Is there any way she can argue that permission was given for 1 only?

Best of luck OP.

The OP has written permission to allow the dogs, thereby amending the terms of the lease. The landlord cannot renege on this without the OPs permission as far as I know, as this would again change the terms of the lease which the OP doesn't have to agree to.

Riskymove

malistheman wrote: »

I find it bizarre that the landlord/agency would take the complaint seriously when it was from someone other than the actual neighbour?

they are not taking it seriously as such....they are just fed up of the woman complaining and think this will solve that

Right2Write

Shelli2 wrote: »

Maybe I'm posting in the wrong place. I guess the advice I'm really looking for is how to deal with the woman making false complaints against us.

Go and have a polite chat with her next time she's over. Get to the bottom of the issue. That's about it.

SteM

Pelvis wrote: »

The OP has written permission to allow the dogs, thereby amending the terms of the lease. The landlord cannot renege on this without the OPs permission as far as I know, as this would again change the terms of the lease which the OP doesn't have to agree to.

No. The OP said in the first post she asked for permission to get a dog - singular. I asked if the written permission she received said she could have a dog or multiple dogs or wasn't clear but the OP hasn't replied yet. You don't know what the written permission grants. If the written permission states specifically one dog then it's the tenant that has broken the terms of the lease by having more than one dog.

Topper Harley

SteM wrote: »

No. The OP said in the first post she asked for permission to get a dog - singular. I asked if the written permission she received said she could have a dog or multiple dogs or wasn't clear but the OP hasn't replied yet. You don't know what the written permission grants. If the written permission states specifically one dog then it's the tenant that has broken the terms of the lease by having more than one dog.

If permission was given for a dog, I think most reasonable people would assume that two small dogs is ok. If the LL didn't want animals at all in the house or garden, she wouldn't have given permission. Clearly she doesn't mind one so why would she have a problem with two, since they can keep each other company and therefore be less likely to become bored and destructive or start barking.

Anyway, the LL's problem is not with the dogs, it's with the neighbour but she sees this as the easiest fix. However, as I stated earlier, the LL is going about this all wrong. If she just wants to avoid any hassle then she should NOT do the following:

- Create bad blood with her tenant;
- Try to force them to get rid of their dogs;
- Eventually have to work out a way to get rid of them / have them leave of their own accord and;
- Have to find new tenants (I know there's plenty out there but they're not all good ones).

Instead she should just ignore malicious complaints. They will stop and then she'll have no hassle.

OP, the only thing I can suggest is talking to your neighbour to see if he can actively help you deal with his sister, rather than just apologising for her. Even if it's to just get her to actually engage with you rather than rudely dismissing you. If you can have a discussion with her, kill her with kindness. Bring her a bottle of wine or something and tell her you want to be on good terms and find a workable solution. If you can get her to like you, she might give up complaining.

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Ms Doubtfire1

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probably because her mother saw them in the run..? :getlost:

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Ms Doubtfire1

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Sure they could just be visiting dogs?

Are you telling me to get lost? I dont understand the end of your post?[/quote]
lol I'f I'm telling you to get lost I'll say that. i suggest you read the whole thread(again if you have already) it will answer the question.

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Mrs OBumble

malistheman wrote: »

I find it bizarre that the landlord/agency would take the complaint seriously when it was from someone other than the actual neighbour?

To view it another way - the actual neighbour is an elderly woman, who lives with her spineless son who won't say boo to a goose. Her daughter visits regularly, and appears to have to deal with problems the mother has, like yapping dogs in the neighbourhood.

The OP's LL gave permission for a dog because she didn't want the fuss of saying "no". But clearly doing so has caused a fuss, so I can see why she'd change her mind.

What counts now is what is written in the lease.

Dial Hard

Riskymove wrote:

they are not taking it seriously as such....they are just fed up of the woman complaining and think this will solve that

How did she know who to complain to, though?

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Ah come off it. If you see a dog in someone's garden it's a reasonable assumption that they own it.

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Mena

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I've a friend who visits with her dog regularly and it goes out the back cos I've a cat.

Just seeing a dog means nothing. Particularly if it's just someone visiting who saw the dog. If they're not there early morning/late evening then they wouldn't have a clue if a dog lives there or not.[/quote]

That's true, and we have the same. However it's still a reasonable assumption.

K.Flyer

Topper Harley wrote: »

If permission was given for a dog, I think most reasonable people would assume that two small dogs is ok.

When it comes to lease contracts and permissions you Assume Nothing!
Permission was given for One dog, not Two.
Was permission given to erect the dog run as well?

....... wrote: »

...

I am wondering how the visiting neighbour knows the dogs exist at all if they are so quiet.

Seeing a dog out the back means nothing, the dog could be visiting with a friend.

I think the purpose built dog run might be a bit of a giveaway in this case.
And the fact that its the same dogs when nobody is at home.
Maybe the complainant is not happy about the dog run, or maybe there are smells from the dogs going to the toilet out the back.

Thargor

Come off it OP, a Pomeranian that doesn't bark when left outside? They never shut up. Literally the first result in Google:

https://www.google.ie/search?num=30&q=do+pomeranians+bark&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3sdaUvOPVAhUmLMAKHcXGAa4QvwUIIygA&biw=1536&bih=759

How many times have we seen this thread in here? A completely oblivious dog owner claiming their little angel never barks meanwhile their totally unreasonable neighbours are being driven mad by this supposedly inaudible barking, and of course the dog owner refuses to accept that its destroying peoples peace and quite thats the problem, no, its the evil crazy neighbour who just hates puppies and wants to cause trouble...

The reason she's threatening to go to the DSPCA is that when you go off for those three hours that dog or dogs is screeching non-stop in the back garden like its being tortured and begging to be let back in again, anyone who's lived in an estate with back gardens has experienced this, and 99 times out of a 100 the dog owner will deny theres any issue.

Control your dogs, its up to you to train them or invest in anti-bark collars or other devices.

EDIT: And stop with the "crazy sister who only visits and doesn't live there" crap, the reason someone who doesn't live there knows about the issue is its because its probably all her brother and elderly mother talk about, they're just too afraid of you or too afraid of causing trouble to approach you themselves.

frag420

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How do we not know the cat aint visiting too? Just seeing the cat in your place means nothing...

Shelli2

Thargor wrote: »

Come off it OP, a Pomeranian that doesn't bark when left outside? They never shut up. Literally the first result in Google:

https://www.google.ie/search?num=30&q=do+pomeranians+bark&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3sdaUvOPVAhUmLMAKHcXGAa4QvwUIIygA&biw=1536&bih=759

How many times have we seen this thread in here? A completely oblivious dog owner claiming their little angel never barks meanwhile their totally unreasonable neighbours are being driven mad by this supposedly inaudible barking, and of course the dog owner refuses to accept that its destroying peoples peace and quite thats the problem, no, its the evil crazy neighbour who just hates puppies and wants to cause trouble...

The reason she's threatening to go to the DSPCA is that when you go off for those three hours that dog or dogs is screeching non-stop in the back garden like its being tortured and begging to be let back in again, anyone who's lived in an estate with back gardens has experienced this, and 99 times out of a 100 the dog owner will deny theres any issue.

Control your dogs, its up to you to train them or invest in anti-bark collars or other devices.

EDIT: And stop with the "crazy sister who only visits and doesn't live there" crap, the reason someone who doesn't live there knows about the issue is its because its probably all her brother and elderly mother talk about, they're just too afraid of you or too afraid of causing trouble to approach you themselves.

Not going to waste my time going through all my points in depth again, but here's a quick summary as you obviously can't be bothered reading the details.
-dogs under constant surveillance by camera.
-statements from other neighbours that they are not barking constantly.
-dogs not left alone for long periods of time.

Do my dogs bark? Yes, occasionally. I'm not claiming they are mute.

Shelli2

Latest update:
The letting agent has reviewed our evidence and is now seeing our side.
The landlady still won't deal with us directly, but the agent knowing that we are entitled to her contact details has asked that we give him time to resolve this himself.
Of course we've agreed, we don't want this hassle and really just want our quiet life back.
The agent has said we are ok to keep the dogs, thst he will be dealing with the complaining lady himself and has said that as it currently stands we have no obligation to get rid of our dogs.

I'm very glad we stood our ground and researched our rights. It appears that the 'LL and agent tried to take the lazy approach and didn't really want to deal with the issue properly until we pushed the matter and forced their hand.