Unwarranted fine for M50 toll

armaghlad

So I was down in Wickla about a month ago and obviously used the M50. I paid the toll online using my card and recall having a bit of hassle which resulted in me paying it TWICE (it said at the time that payment didn't go through, so I tried again; and after the same result, I left it until the next day where I saw the payments had successfully left my account).

Today I received a letter requesting the guts of €90 by way of a fine. I was pretty sure I paid this and can see on my online banking that two payments came out to eflow; but I can also see two payments go straight back out again.

Now this is hardly my fault, I paid in good faith at the time and have not tried to avoid payment in anyway. Any other people have any experience of this, nordies especially?

ScouseMouse

What are you driving? The toll is 3 euro something and if not paid by 8pm next day, it doubles. Then you have so long to pay that, and it goes up again. I dont understand how it is 90 euro. That must be an old one you never paid or something.

Try ringing them. I did once when I forgot and they said as it was the first time, they would sort it for me.

markpb

armaghlad wrote: »

So I was down in Wickla about a month ago and obviously used the M50. I paid the toll online using my card and recall having a bit of hassle which resulted in me paying it TWICE (it said at the time that payment didn't go through, so I tried again; and after the same result, I left it until the next day where I saw the payments had successfully left my account).

From what you're saying, it sounds like both payments failed for some reason and you were told this at the time. I'd call them, explain the situation and see what they say. They're usually quite reasonable.

ScouseMouse wrote: »

I dont understand how it is 90 euro. That must be an old one you never paid or something.

I'm guessing it was two tolls (at €3.10 each). These weren't paid so they increased by €3.00 to €6.10 each. These also weren't paid so they increased by €41.50. At this point, the OP either suddenly started receiving the letters or, more likely, started reading them. The process is described here.

ScouseMouse

markpb wrote: »

From what you're saying, it sounds like both payments failed for some reason and you were told this at the time. I'd call them, explain the situation and see what they say. They're usually quite reasonable.

Thats doesnt total 90 quid !

ScouseMouse

As per your edit, that makes sense. Did the OP not get a letter when it doubled?

If you have a card statement showing payment taken, then ring them and explain. I found them quite ok to deal with when polite.

armaghlad

I made the outward journey on a Saturday and returned on the Sunday.

I made the payments as soon as I got home, which I as I recall was before the 8pm deadline.

The website did not give me a receipt or confirmation of the payments but it was able to take two payments regardless(I mistakenly paid twice because the eflow site is piece of 5h1t).

Once I saw said payments leave my bank account I thought that was the matter dealt with. I have since learned that the payments were returned. I have contacted my bank who have confirmed nothing was untoward at their end and that I can prove I made the payments on the Sunday.

Today I received my first letter asking for £87.52 which includes STR and UTN penalties (whatever tf they are).

Also I have to pay to an English company rather than eflow so it remains to be seen how sympathetic they will be.

L1011

STR is the first level of extra charge, UTN is the 'fine' for not paying that

The English company is the firm they use to track DVLA registrations. Contact eflow by phone rather than them - they're fairly flexible and you've proof that their systems ballsed up payment.

Just FYI there's a free account you can sign up for that will automatically charge your card at the end of the month if you use the M50, it's called the video account, check the eFlow website. Dead handy.

Caliden

Gloria White String wrote: »

Just FYI there's a free account you can sign up for that will automatically charge your card at the end of the month if you use the M50, it's called the video account, check the eFlow website. Dead handy.

I don't even think it's charges you a maintenance fee even if you don't use the toll.

Agree that it's dead handy as you never have to worry about paying the toll on time.

markpb

Caliden wrote: »

I don't even think it's charges you a maintenance fee even if you don't use the toll.

Agree that it's dead handy as you never have to worry about paying the toll on time.

And it knocks 50c off the price of the toll.

PhoenixParker

Just write to them and tell them you paid it with screenshot evidence of the money leaving your account and being returned and a time and date you made the payment. They should cancel it without quibble.

I've had a fine show up when I hadn't used the toll. A quick email and it was cancelled.

markpb

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Just write to them and tell them you paid it with screenshot evidence of the money leaving your account and being returned and a time and date you made the payment. They should cancel it without quibble.

From the OPs description, both payments failed for some reason and they were told that at the time:

it said at the time that payment didn't go through, so I tried again; and after the same result

PhoenixParker

markpb wrote: »

From the OPs description, both payments failed for some reason and they were told that at the time:

He also says he saw the money had left his account the next day. While it came back again it's clear he made an honest effort to pay and the first port of call is actually to talk to the company about it.

volvovolvo

armaghlad wrote: »

So I was down in Wickla about a month ago and obviously used the M50. I paid the toll online using my card and recall having a bit of hassle which resulted in me paying it TWICE (it said at the time that payment didn't go through, so I tried again; and after the same result, I left it until the next day where I saw the payments had successfully left my account).

Today I received a letter requesting the guts of €90 by way of a fine. I was pretty sure I paid this and can see on my online banking that two payments came out to eflow; but I can also see two payments go straight back out again.

Now this is hardly my fault, I paid in good faith at the time and have not tried to avoid payment in anyway. Any other people have any experience of this, nordies especially?

Hi, I am not able to answer your question but can I say that I think that eflow are gangsters.
There is no way I would use their service even if the only alternative was to walk across the city on bi-roads or climb over hedges and walls and swim across the river Liffey.
Why can't they send free text messages or free emails as reminders before posting a letter which they hope the recipient is not at home to receive, so that they can add a fine, and what is with the 41 euro fine?
People have their phone with them all the time these days but they may not be at home all the time or they may be on holidays.
Eflow knows that people are under more work stress these days and then when there is a stressful event like a trip to a hospital, a funeral, a rush to the airport or even a holiday that people are then more likely to forget to pay, then they return home to a fine of 41 or maybe a 100 or maybe a few hundred euro fine from a solicitor.
My advice to you is don't deal with gangsters of any type, even if they are 'legalised gangsters'.

cml387

Once again a rabble rabble about the m50 toll.
Simply sign up to a video account (it's free) and never worry about forgotten journeys again.

Why is this so hard to understand.

(sorry that's not aimed at the OP)

Del2005

volvovolvo wrote: »

Hi, I am not able to answer your question but can I say that I think that eflow are gangsters.
There is no way I would use their service even if the only alternative was to walk across the city on bi-roads or climb over hedges and walls and swim across the river Liffey.
Why can't the send free text messages or free emails as reminders before posting a letter which they hope the recipient is not at home to receive, so that they can add a fine, and what is with the 41 euro fine?
People have their phone with them all the time these days but they may not be at home all the time or they may be on holidays.
Eflow knows that people are under more work stress these days and then when there is a stressful event like a trip to a hospital, a funeral, a rush to the airport or even a holiday that people are then more likely to forget to pay, then they return home to a fine of 41 or maybe a 100 or maybe a few hundred euro fine from a solicitor.
My advice to you is don't deal with gangsters of any type, even if they are 'legalised gangsters'.

Because it's the person who uses the road job to pay not there's to remind you. If you can drive past the numerous massive signs and not know what to do then you have bigger problems than eflow not reminding you.

Petyr Baelish

volvovolvo wrote: »

Hi, I am not able to answer your question but can I say that I think that eflow are gangsters.
There is no way I would use their service even if the only alternative was to walk across the city on bi-roads or climb over hedges and walls and swim across the river Liffey.
Why can't they send free text messages or free emails as reminders before posting a letter which they hope the recipient is not at home to receive, so that they can add a fine, and what is with the 41 euro fine?
People have their phone with them all the time these days but they may not be at home all the time or they may be on holidays.
Eflow knows that people are under more work stress these days and then when there is a stressful event like a trip to a hospital, a funeral, a rush to the airport or even a holiday that people are then more likely to forget to pay, then they return home to a fine of 41 or maybe a 100 or maybe a few hundred euro fine from a solicitor.
My advice to you is don't deal with gangsters of any type, even if they are 'legalised gangsters'.

He doesn't have an account, how do they know what number to text? Same with email.

The reasons for the journey are irrelevant as are the reasons for forgetting.

What the OP has described is a situation that can, I am very sure, be remedied. There is no need for the silly histrionics.

volvovolvo

D el2005 wrote: »

Because it's the person who uses the road job to pay not there's to remind you. If you can drive past the numerous massive signs and not know what to do then you have bigger problems than eflow not reminding you.

If I work for someone and they pay me a few days late then I don't fine them.
In fact I am lucky to get paid at the end of the month and sometimes I have to wait 2 or 3 months.
When someone forgets to pay the m50 toll by 8pm the following evening then they should not be treated like a criminal who was trying to evade paying.
I could understand if eflow, after waiting a month and after sending out several free automated text and free automated email reminders and a letter then perhaps sent a fine, but not after 24 hours or whatever it is.
If they didn't play so dirty and opportunistically with people, especially old people, shift workers, people going abroad etc then I would have used their services and I would have paid them thousands over many years as would my family members too.
But on principal we won't use their services.

aon1998

volvovolvo wrote: »

I could understand if eflow, after waiting a month and after sending out several free automated text and free automated email reminders and a letter then perhaps sent a fine, but not after 24 hours or whatever it is.

As Petyr Baelish already said, where are eFlow meant to get your email and phone number?

Petyr Baelish

volvovolvo wrote: »

blah blah blah.... then I would have used their services and I would have paid them thousands over many years as would my family members too.
But on principal we won't use their services.

Grand so, that will help ease congestion on the M50. Enjoy your drive.

duffman13

volvovolvo wrote: »

If I work for someone and they pay me a few days late then I don't fine them.
In fact I am lucky to get paid at the end of the month and sometimes I have to wait 2 or 3 months.
When someone forgets to pay the m50 toll by 8pm the following evening then they should not be treated like a criminal who was trying to evade paying.
I could understand if eflow, after waiting a month and after sending out several free automated text and free automated email reminders and a letter then perhaps sent a fine, but not after 24 hours or whatever it is.
If they didn't play so dirty and opportunistically with people, especially old people, shift workers, people going abroad etc then I would have used their services and I would have paid them thousands over many years as would my family members too.
But on principal we won't use their services.

How can they send out text and email reminders unless you sign up to there service? In which case then youd be best signing up for a video account as it's free to operate, reduces the cost per trip and also ensures you never get caught for a late fee again.

They provide a service and you are under no obligation to use it however they are a very reasonable organisation. I contact them previously about a fine I received after forgetting and they waived it quickly and just charged the original amount. Very courteous staff and not the behaviour of a dirty, opportunistic organisation.

volvovolvo

Petyr Baelish wrote: »

He doesn't have an account, how do they know what number to text? Same with email.

The reasons for the journey are irrelevant as are the reasons for forgetting.

What the OP has described is a situation that can, I am very sure, be remedied. There is no need for the silly histrionics.

I would imagine that if they can get a postal address from some database then they could get an email and phone number from the same database (probably the Rsa or motor tax data base).

jamesbondings

volvovolvo wrote: »

Hi, I am not able to answer your question but can I say that I think that eflow are gangsters.
There is no way I would use their service even if the only alternative was to walk across the city on bi-roads or climb over hedges and walls and swim across the river Liffey.
Why can't they send free text messages or free emails as reminders before posting a letter which they hope the recipient is not at home to receive, so that they can add a fine, and what is with the 41 euro fine?
People have their phone with them all the time these days but they may not be at home all the time or they may be on holidays.
Eflow knows that people are under more work stress these days and then when there is a stressful event like a trip to a hospital, a funeral, a rush to the airport or even a holiday that people are then more likely to forget to pay, then they return home to a fine of 41 or maybe a 100 or maybe a few hundred euro fine from a solicitor.
My advice to you is don't deal with gangsters of any type, even if they are 'legalised gangsters'.

I disagree on this point. When our son was percolating we changed car and forgot about changing the eflow tag. My partner went into labor and was in such a state for 5 days (trooper). I was over and back at least 14 times through the toll (not including in the lead up to the labor). I forgot simple as. When he was a week old or so I remembered I needed to change the tag to the new car. One quick call. One easy chat and not only was the tag moved over to the new car, but all of the late fees and fines were gone.

One of the most reasonable customer service people I ever have had the pleasure of dealing with.

I feel I should say I have no link personal or otherwise to them in anyway shape or form!

Petyr Baelish

volvovolvo wrote: »

I would imagine that if they can get a postal address from some database then they could get an email and phone number from the same database (probably the Rsa or motor tax data base).

Not everyone uses email. Not everyone has a mobile phone.

If eflow had access to those kinds of information you would be complaining about that instead. It is very clear you just have an issue with paying tolls, why is that?

Did you get caught?

volvovolvo

aon1998 wrote: »

As Petyr Baelish already said, where are eFlow meant to get your email and phone number?

From the same government database where they got my address from.

TheRiverman

Sometimes it is better to forget about cards and eflow accounts or whatever they are called and go into a shop and pay the toll before or after using it.

Petyr Baelish

volvovolvo wrote: »

From the same government database where they got my address from.

That database does not exist. If it did they would use it.

Email addresses and phone numbers are not reliable means of contact since they could be located anywhere on earth. Addresses are not perfect either but they are the best we have since the vehicle and the drivers licence have to be registered to a physical location as named on the registration certificate that is posted to the owner of the car when it is purchased.

spurious

jamesbondings wrote: »

One of the most reasonable customer service people I ever have had the pleasure of dealing with.

Have to also add to this. I found them excellent to deal with when my late father was hospitalised the day after he had gone through the toll. Naturally it wasn't top of his list of priorities. There was a substantial bill by the time he died a couple of months later which it only took one phone call and a follow up email to do away with.

volvovolvo

jamesbondings wrote: »

I disagree on this point. When our son was percolating we changed car and forgot about changing the eflow tag. My partner went into labor and was in such a state for 5 days (trooper). I was over and back at least 14 times through the toll (not including in the lead up to the labor). I forgot simple as. When he was a week old or so I remembered I needed to change the tag to the new car. One quick call. One easy chat and not only was the tag moved over to the new car, but all of the late fees and fines were gone.

One of the most reasonable customer service people I ever have had the pleasure of dealing with.

I feel I should say I have no link personal or otherwise to them in anyway shape or form!

I wouldn't fault the customer service staff in any such corporate monopoly, they are dictated a set of rules to, knowing that they will be threatened, dissaplened or fired if they dry to express their humane side and go against the corporate policy which is designed to maximise profit for the benefit of a few.

volvovolvo

spurious wrote: »

Have to also add to this. I found them excellent to deal with when my late father was hospitalised the day after he had gone through the toll. Naturally it wasn't top of his list of priorities. There was a substantial bill by the time he died a couple of months later which it only took one phone call and a follow up email to do away with.

Sorry to hear your father passed away RIP.
I imagine that the financial wing of the m50 toll bridge monopoly were disappointed to hear your Dad had died because they couldn't hound him any more with fines and threatening letters.
I imagine that you were not under any legal obligation to pay for your fathers toll bridge use.
However if your father left assets then maybe they could have went after them, I am surprised they didn't.
However I am not sure of the law in this area.

volvovolvo

Petyr Baelish wrote: »

That database does not exist. If it did they would use it.

Email addresses and phone numbers are not reliable means of contact since they could be located anywhere on earth. Addresses are not perfect either but they are the best we have since the vehicle and the drivers licence have to be registered to a physical location as named on the registration certificate that is posted to the owner of the car when it is purchased.

When I registered my vehicle I put my name,address, phone number and email on yhe same form.
That is most likely where the toll monopoly got my address from, they could easily operate a system of automated parallel emails and text messages reminders instead of demanding urgent dirty fines.
They prefer a flow of easy ill gotten fines from soft targets like the elderly, the stressed, the unorganized, the time poor, agency workers, shift workers, etc.

Petyr Baelish

volvovolvo wrote: »

Sorry to hear your father passed away RIP.
I imagine that the financial wing of the toll bridge monopoly were disappointed to hear your Dad had died because they couldn't hound him any more with fines and threatening letters.
I imagine that you were not under any legal obligation to pay for your fathers toll bridge use.
However if your father left assets then maybe they could have went after them, I am surprised they didn't.
However I am not sure of the law in this area.

Wow.

Just wow.

Petyr Baelish

volvovolvo wrote: »

When I registered my vehicle I put my name,address, phone number and email on yhe same form.
That is most likely where the toll monopoly got my address from, they could easily operate a system of automated parallel emails and text messages reminders instead of demanding urgent dirty fines.
They prefer a flow of easy ill gotten fines from soft targets like the elderly, the stressed, the unorganized, the time poor, agency workers, shift workers, etc.

You don't have to supply an email or phone number. You chose to. Having said that I have already explained why they would not be used.

Now that's enough tin foil hattery for one night.

Dr Brown

The toll company are gangsters.

It's like they are trying to pull a fast one.

volvovolvo

[quote.="Petyr Baelish;104627037"]You don't have to supply an email or phone number. You chose to. Having said that I have already explained why they would not be used.

Now that's enough tin foil hattery for one night.[/quote]

I wonder with all the money that the M50 toll bridge monopoly collect could they afford to pay a few people on line to try to paint or stick a veneer over to cover their greed.
Are there people around who would do that for money.
What type of people would try to defend a large corporate monopoly which operstes as a legalized highway man then preys on old, vulnerable, time pressurred, stressed unfortunates who over look paying a toll charge which they dictated to be due within 24 hours, then demands dirty gross fines from them.

volvovolvo

Dr Brown wrote: »

The toll company are gangsters.

It's like they are trying to pull a fast one.

I agree, I also think that their system is designed to try to rope in as many registered users as possible for to maximize the eventual sale value of their monopoly.
In the meantime they prey on stressed, forget full, time pressured, elderly, ill and vulnerable people by demanding growing fines within a very short time window.
They sort of remind me of unscrupulous credit card companies.

Del2005

volvovolvo wrote: »

When I registered my vehicle I put my name,address, phone number and email on yhe same form.
That is most likely where the toll monopoly got my address from, they could easily operate a system of automated parallel emails and text messages reminders instead of demanding urgent dirty fines.
They prefer a flow of easy ill gotten fines from soft targets like the elderly, the stressed, the unorganized, the time poor, agency workers, shift workers, etc.

There's multiple toll companies and several free options for crossing the Liffey. So it's not a monopoly and if you are so against it don't use it.

markpb

volvovolvo wrote: »

I wonder with all the money that the M50 toll bridge monopoly collect could they afford to pay a few people on line to try to paint or stick a veneer over to cover their greed.

If eFlow want to pay me to tell you that you're being ridiculous, I won't say no but I'll give them this one for free.

The toll operators are paid a fee to collect the toll and pass it onto the state. If you have a problem with the rates, timeframes or penalties, your problem is with the government, not the company paid to collect it. Get on the phone to your local TD and express your unhappiness.

Any suggestion that they prey on the sick or elderly is lunacy of the highest order. They collect tolls from people who choose to use the toll. They apply penalties to people who fail to pay. You've been given examples of people who've had those penalties waved.

Petyr Baelish

volvovolvo wrote: »

[quote.="Petyr Baelish;104627037"]You don't have to supply an email or phone number. You chose to. Having said that I have already explained why they would not be used.

Now that's enough tin foil hattery for one night.

I wonder with all the money that the M50 toll bridge monopoly collect could they afford to pay a few people on line to try to paint or stick a veneer over to cover their greed.
Are there people around who would do that for money.
What type of people would try to defend a large corporate monopoly which operstes as a legalized highway man then preys on old, vulnerable, time pressurred, stressed unfortunates who over look paying a toll charge which they dictated to be due within 24 hours, then demands dirty gross fines from them.[/quote]

Tin foil hat officially confirmed. That's fine serious paranoia you've got going on there.

wordofwarning

volvovolvo wrote: »

they could easily operate a system of automated parallel emails and text messages reminders instead of demanding urgent dirty fines.
They prefer a flow of easy ill gotten fines from soft targets like the elderly, the stressed, the unorganized, the time poor, agency workers, shift workers, etc.

The M50 is a toll road. It has been a toll road from day one. It is plastered with signs reminding you to pay the fine. I don't know you think, people need to be heavily reminded to pay a toll on a road that they know is a toll road. I don't know where you are getting a notion that people need to be reminded that it is a toll road and they used it.

They should make allowances for the "unorganised"? Are you serious? Why should a company have to bend over backwards for someone who is not organised?

If are working shifts or incapable of functioning in a modern society or as you like to call it "unorganised", it is not that difficult to set up an account. Instead of blaming eFlow, people need personal responsibility

Dr Brown

The M50 is the most used road in Ireland it should not be tolled.

I think the whole toll concept is a scam just look at the east link bridge even 30 years after its built they are still charging motorists when its supposed to be free.