Engagement and marriage

julyjane

Looking for a bit of perspective here. I've been in a relationship for a long time, close on 20 years, and we have a few kids. We met in our very early 20s, have had our ups and downs and one or 2 blazing rows that I thought I'd never get over, but right now things are good as far as I can see. We're older and that bit more relaxed and not sweating the small stuff etc.

About 4 years into our relationship he hurt me badly, but I don't think he realised how much. We were at an age where our friends were starting to get engaged and married and we/I had the usual onslaught of "you're next". I never thought too much about it because earlier in the relationship he had said of himself and his siblings "I don't think any of us will ever get married" (and none of them have so far) It never bothered me much, I don't like too much attention and don't think I could hack the big white Irish wedding. But one day out of nowhere he produced an engagement ring out in a box (bought online because I saw him anxiously looking out for the postman) but he didn't actually propose, he didn't say anything much but it was clear what the intention was and I was texting relatives and friends to tell them I'd got a ring. He was doing similar, it was just after Christmas and he texted his best friend saying "J got a ring from Santa", we went out NYE and people were saying "congratulations on your engagement" and telling us about their weddings. Like many young women in love I got caught up in buying wedding magazines and going on WOL, there was talk of getting married abroad. The engagement ring wasn't a style I'd have picked myself but I was happy and wore it anyway and when I made some harmless remark about what type of wedding ring would go with it he said "whoa now, who said anything about getting married?" I can't remember how I responded, I was young and shy and probably said nothing but I felt so foolish. We were out another night and someone we hadn't seen in a while said "congratulations I heard you got engaged" - he blushed and said "no we didn't" . He's always been a bit of a joker so I couldn't figure out if he was serious or otherwise, communication has never been his strong point but we never once actually spoke about it like adults. I threw it back at him in a row years later by saying "I never felt engaged"

Other than that we've been happy and contented. We had a few babies, I piled on the weight so the ring no longer fit me and I put it back in it's box and put the box in the drawer. Now I've lost weight and it fits me again but I don't want to wear it anymore because it reminds me of how foolish I felt. For me engaged=planning a marriage. I know lots of people get engaged and stay engaged and that's lovely if it's what they want but I'm very black and white, I'm either married or in a relationship no in between.

Now when other people mention weddings he makes jokes about how "she won't have me!" and I feel like saying that's not true but feel like I should just let him (and everyone else) believe that. I would like to marry him, I would like him to be my husband and me to be his wife. If it never happens I will still be 100% content for us just to be together, that's what matters the most to me but the thoughts of marriage keep coming into my mind. I don't even know how to bring it up in conversation.

I have a lot to be thankful for, good relationship, healthy kids, nice house and we're reasonably financially secure. Should I just forget about it and be happy the way we are? Someday we will get time out to have a long, serious conversation about it, maybe when our kids have all moved out!

bee06

You've been together 20 years! Surely this is something you should be able to talk about.

Pelvis

You do know you're allowed to ask him?

retro:electro

Sorry but he bought you a ring and led you to believe you were engaged and then out of the blue one day decided, oh no actually we're not.
That's just cruel.
I'd have no problem interrupting him in future when he says "sure she wouldn't have me", and say "well, actually, here's a funny story", and rehash your op word for word to anyone who asks. I'm sure he'll shut up then.
How dare he put the onus on you so casually like that after what he did.

julyjane

anna080 wrote: »

Sorry but he bought you a ring and led you to believe you were engaged and then out of the blue one day decided, oh no actually we're not.
That's just cruel.
I'd have no problem interrupting him in future when he says "sure she wouldn't have me", and say "well, actually, here's a funny story", and rehash your op word for word to anyone who asks. I'm sure he'll shut up then.

I might do just that someday and that may be what gets the conversation started. I'm not the shrinking violet I used to be and I think a big part of it is acting like it's my decision. The part of me that doesn't want to talk about it is in fear of being rejected again.

retro:electro

julyjane wrote: »

I might do just that someday and that may be what gets the conversation started. I'm not the shrinking violet I used to be and I think a big part of it is acting like it's my decision. The part of me that doesn't want to talk about it is in fear of being rejected again.

He's flippantly throwing the blame for you not being married over to your shoulders, but doing it in a subtle, witty way. After the stunt he pulled that's just not on. Maybe tackle him on it privately first, like "why do you say that, you know it's not true", and see what he says. The conversation may grow from there.

Katgurl

I am baffled as to why you two haven't discussed this.

Mr. Incognito

You have kids together and have been together years.

Without a marriage or a registered form of co-habitation or partnership you have no inheritence rights, no beneficial tax treatment, and a myriad of other practical considerations that marriage bestows.

He is going to have to pull the finger our. Marriage is practical as well as Romantic.

SusanC10

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You have kids together and have been together years.

Without a marriage or a registered form of co-habitation or partnership you have no inheritence rights, no beneficial tax treatment, and a myriad of other practical considerations that marriage bestows.

He is going to have to pull the finger our. Marriage is practical as well as Romantic.

My sentiments exactly.

julyjane

Katgurl wrote: »

I am baffled as to why you two haven't discussed this.

Marriage has been casually discussed a few times. What I've never told him is how hurt I felt all those years ago, maybe I was pretending to tough it out, maybeI was in some sort of denial and to be honest after being treated that way I wasn't sure I wanted to marry him. It's now that we're many years down the line and doesn't hurt anymore that I feel the need to say something about it.

groovyg

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You have kids together and have been together years.

Without a marriage or a registered form of co-habitation or partnership you have no inheritence rights, no beneficial tax treatment, and a myriad of other practical considerations that marriage bestows.

He is going to have to pull the finger our. Marriage is practical as well as Romantic.

Am I correct in thinking the ops partner wouldn't be considered her next of kin if something terrible happened and a decision needed to be made in a life/death scenario?

baby and crumble

julyjane wrote: »

It's now that we're many years down the line and doesn't hurt anymore that I feel the need to say something about it.

OP, if it didn't hurt anymore, you wouldn't be still thinking about it and posting online. Clearly it bothers you. If you've had kids together but can't bring this up, then you've some big fish to fry about communication in this relationship.

julyjane

Oh I can bring it up alright, but like I said in my op I would like a bit of perspective from others, and I'm grateful to everyone who replied

Ursus Horribilis

The one thing that's coming across here is that you've communication issues. How well do you connect on a deeper level with your partner. You seem to be doing a lot of dancing around him, surmising, second guessing and doing anything apart from holding a serious conversation with him. It's as if you're very insecure and unsure of where you actually stand with him.

December2012

You should make some time to talk about whether or not you are engaged.

You could simply ask him "Do you want to get married?" Not as in a proposal (but you can do that too!), but more of a question of preference. You can tell him that you would like to get married.

give him some time to think about it, and be patient. You have been thinking about this and processing it, he hasn't.

Whether or not you bring up the past is up to you. Personally I think you should let it go. You forgave him with your actions by staying with him, and maybe there was a miscommunication on both sides.

That was in the past. Talk about your future instead.

GingerLily

julyjane wrote: »

Oh I can bring it up alright, but like I said in my op I would like a bit of perspective from others, and I'm grateful to everyone who replied

It's very hard to understand your relationship and give perspective given that you haven't actually talked to him about any of this, that's your first port of call, not strangers in the Internet. Until you can brave the question I don't know if you're even ready to marry each other! Serious communication issues here.

I do agree that you need to talk to him about next of kin rights and solutions for the sake of your kids anyway. Marriage would be the most straight forward solution to all that.

skallywag

I'm in a similar situation in that we have been together a long time, have a family together, etc, but we're not married. Neither of us have ever been pushed about it. That said, if my OH really wanted to, and it meant a lot to her, then I would have nothing against it and would quite happily get married.

I think you really need to have that chat. It sounds to me that he really does not appreciate how you feel about it.

LegacyUser

Can you give him back the ring, explaining that you thought it was a proposal and so accepted it on that basis. But as it's not what you thought it was you feel you don't want to wear it so no point in keeping it? That might get the conversation started.

Sometimes things this important, you need to make time for. If you have family support with kids (grandparents etc) make time for yourselves. Even if it means taking time off work and turning off phones. Something like this is too important to ignore. It is making you unhappy. You can explain that you are happy to stay in "just" a relationship or get married but you don't want to stay in limbo. That's not fair on anyone. Having to deal with people's questions. Next time, tell them ask him in future. When he says "She won't have me" ask him how would he know as he never asked you. You have no need to feel foolish. This is all on him.

bee06

OP, correct me if I'm wrong but did this "ring situation" happen about 16 years ago?

I would leave that out of any conversation and just discuss your future.

woodchuck

There are definitely communication issues here, from both sides.

Just playing devils advocate for a moment...
So he gave you a ring as a present. But didn't actually propose or ask you to marry him. Is it possible you got the wrong end of the stick and it was just a ring and not an actual engagement ring? Even if it was meant as an engagement ring, how did you "accept" a proposal from him when there wasn't one I find the whole thing very confusing. Obviously you should've both actually talked about what was happening i.e. he should have made his intentions clear and if he didn't you should have asked what it meant. But that ship has long sailed now. I'm just using an example that you've given of how there are communication issues from both sides.

You need to figure out what you want. Do you need to be married to be happy? Are you happy now? If not, marriage won't change that. Then you need to talk to your partner about what he wants and see if you can get on the same page about your future together.

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LushiousLips

So after he gave you the ring and you went out NYE and people were congratulating both of you on your engagement, he didn't say anything about not being engaged. Then out of the blue he says ye are not engaged. Its very strange.

How you've kept quiet all these years is beyond me :eek::eek::

Ursus Horribilis

Are you afraid he'll break up with you if you say the wrong thing?

OnDraught

I've been with my girlfriend from a young age for a similar length of time. I know neither of us are too pushed about getting married, seems pointless. We're listed as next of kin on all our documents etc.

However if we had a kid I'd be getting married for a whole host of legal reasons.

julyjane

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Are you afraid he'll break up with you if you say the wrong thing?

Oh not at all, he wouldn't be a bit like that. I'm a bit of an introvert and I often find serious conversation awkward. He's very easy going (on the surface) which is probably why he never spoke that much about it. I do remember once when he made one of his "you wouldn't have me" jokes that I laughed out loud and said "that ship has sailed". His parents had a somewhat unhappy marriage and maybe that clouds his judgement. Long before he met me his father said (possibly in jest) "dont ever get married". I don't know how unhappy but things weren't great between them when their youngest left home and my OH said "I always thought they might split up when we were grown up". Unfortunately serious illness intervened and his father died, he's not close to the rest of his family and probably wouldn't want a traditional wedding because he'd have to invite them.

heretothere

It sounds like you need to just be honest with him. Get the kids out of the house for an evening, sit down together and tell him how you feel. That you would like to be his wife. You're very happy in your relationship with him and love the life you're living but marriage is something you now feel is you want (from you post it sounds like you just now really want this).
It doesn't have to be a big day, back in my waitressing days I worked at a wedding for about 25 people in the back of our local pub/ restaurant it was really lovely. Plenty of beautiful civil ceremony options out there too.

Hannibal_Smith

julyjane wrote: »

I might do just that someday and that may be what gets the conversation started. I'm not the shrinking violet I used to be and I think a big part of it is acting like it's my decision. The part of me that doesn't want to talk about it is in fear of being rejected again.

I don't think you should do that OP. This shouldn't be tit for tat. Although I think how he's behaved is incredibly cruel, there's no need to flip it back on him.

Talk to him. Explain exactly what you said in your opening post. If you're not the shrinking Violet you used to be, this is how you show it. Speak to him like an adult and your partner of 20 years.

It's a very strange way for him to behave and it's no wonder you're still hurt over it. It's never even been properly addressed.

For what it's worth, I certainly wouldn't wear the ring. It was given in the most peculiar of circumstances and understanding.