Proposal to 'save' small scale and accidental landlords

Bob24

The_Conductor wrote: »

The new Minister- is making some funny noises already- it looks like someone managed to get to him recently- and it now looks likely that there will be some sort of market supports created to assist small scale landlords- which is a remarkable turn-around (helped in no small part by the REITs now being held up as the bogeymen- thanks to their ability to affect the rent on thousands of units at the stroke of a pen).

This is is interesting. I probably missed reports on this as I haven't been following things closely, what did the minister say exactly?

The_Conductor

Bob24 wrote: »

This is is interesting. I probably missed reports on this as I haven't been following things closely, what did the minister say exactly?

Sunday Business Post had an article on it yesterday- note this 'may' be paywalled

Revealed: the new plan to save small scale and accidental landlords

jamesthepeach

The_Conductor wrote: »

Sunday Business Post had an article on it yesterday- note this 'may' be firewalled

Revealed: the new plan to save small scale and accidental landlords

I hope they aren't under the impression that the only ones leaving the market are "loss-making" landlords.

Samuel T. Cogley

The_Conductor wrote: »

Sunday Business Post had an article on it yesterday- note this 'may' be firewalled

Revealed: the new plan to save small scale and accidental landlords

It is for me, and a summary most welcome; but the solutions are simple IMO. Cut the risk by allowing evictions where strictly necessary, offer alternative solutions with less risk for HAP-type units (10 year lease). Mortgage interest relief to 100% and the rest good luck - it's a business after all, all I ask is to be treated like any other business.

And for the love of God, get rid of rental caps and control it through tax relief for tenants.

LincolnHawk

The_Conductor wrote: »

Sunday Business Post had an article on it yesterday- note this 'may' be firewalled

Revealed: the new plan to save small scale and accidental landlords

Article is behind a *paywall*, but thanks will read it in work later

The_Conductor

LincolnHawk wrote: »

Article is behind a *paywall*, but thanks will read it in work later

My copy got destroyed by my other half yesterday afternoon- when it was used to protect the floor from wet paint. If you could scan a copy of it and post it here- or perhaps a fresh thread would be more appropriate, it would be appreciated.

The_Conductor

Guys- I've stripped this out to its own thread- so it doesn't get lost in the 2017 Property thread.
LincolnHawk- if you could scan a copy of the article and post it here- I would be grateful.

I'm very interested in reading it- but my copy is covered in copious amounts of candy green high gloss paint- my 7 year is happy though

Bob24

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

And for the love of God, get rid of rental caps and control it through tax relief for tenants.

Agreed with your other points but not that one.

Rent caps are no doubt counter-productive, but replacing them by public subsidies so that rent increases are paid by public funds rather than tenants is equally bad if not worse as it would fuel rents inflation even more without addressing the root cause (exactly like the FTB grant did with sales of new build properties).

Samuel T. Cogley

Bob24 wrote: »

Agreed with your other points but not that one.

Rent caps are no doubt counter-productive, but replacing them by public subsidies so that rent increases are paid by public funds rather than tenants is equally bad if not worse as it would fuel rent inflations even more without addressing the root cause (exactly like the FTB grant did with sales of new build properties).

My issue is there is double taxation with this money. The tenant earns it at 40%+ tax and pays it over to the LL who then pays 40%+ tax, it's the double whammy that annoys the feck out of me. Perhaps the solution is to leave a sensible cap in place during the tenancy of say 5% per year, adjusted in the budget or alternatively measures introduced should be in addition to the cap - such as refuse charges.

lcwill

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

My issue is there is double taxation with this money. The tenant earns it at 40%+ tax and pays it over to the LL who then pays 40%+ tax, it's the double whammy that annoys the feck out of me.

Like any other business? I use my taxed salary to go to the supermarket then the supermarket pays corporate tax AND and person at the checkout pays income tax AND I have to pay Vat.....or is renting property not just like any other business?

With you on the limitations on increases in rent for a sitting tenant though, and strong protections to let the tenant stay as long as they want, and high responsibilities on the tenant in terms of furnishing and doing minor repairs because the landlord won't have any incentive to do it.

The_Conductor

I can see how the accidental landlords need help-

They pay up to 54% tax on rental income- and then could be paying rent somewhere else again- from their net income- one measure that really should be considered brought back- is the ability to offset rental outgoings against rental income.

Eric Cartman

Tax relief similar to any other commercial asset , all repairs and mortgage interest should be afforded to landlords.

A quick turn around 60 day eviction procedure needs to be in place for tenants withholding or serious breaches of the lease.

The ability to decline HAP/RA etc.. needs to be allowed back. Hiding it just creates an artificial rent floor and additional deposit requirements as there are landlords who simply will never take it.

Deposit Escrow - Allow companies to offer this, guaranteed by the central bank where deposits are left at an independent 3rd party who mediate and assess any requests from landlords to have the returned amount lowered in a spent money recouped fashion so they cant just say 'ahh yeah ill get it professionally cleaned'

The_Conductor

Allow landlords recoup costs for work undertaken by themselves- to include mileage from their PPR to attend Management Company AGMs or call-outs for the tenants as/when required. Suggest using standard civil service rates- Revenue already employ this for other business owners in the private sector. Bill time in the usual bands- <4 hour, 4-8 hour, >8 hour and overnight for subsistence- and actual time @ minimum wage.

whippet

I got out of the game as soon as my rental house was out of negative equity .. It was previously our PPR and we bought a more suitable house and rented it out.

It was in theory a profitable investment property .. rents were increasing and the value of the asset was increasing .... but between the taxes due, hassle of managing the property and getting burned very badly by tenants we just sold as soon as the mortgage could be cleared and a few bob for a nice holiday.

While tax was an issue (more or less half of everything plus USC) .. the biggest factor in the decision was the inability of mechanics of the state to protect landlords from rogue tenants. Between rent not paid, damage etc .. one tenant cost me 10k and in reality I had zero options to realistically recoup any of this cash. The stress and hassle of it just isn't worth it unless you are a professional LL who can offset losses against other properties etc.

Rogue tenants hold all the cards .. at least a rogue LL can be brought in to line though the like of the RTB .. but when a tenant disappears off in the middle of the night leaving behind a destroyed property .. tough.

beauf

Govt policy seems to be to be to discourage small LL and encourage large investment LL.

They over heat the market inflate rents and make it too risky for small LL. Perfect for large funds wanting a fast buck.

In that environment I think you have to consider that any concessions to the small LL don't really have any teeth, but they are just a pretence of doing something.