Another Air Rifle Thread

kop77

Hey all,

I'm new to all this so please bear with me!!

I had a few shots on a friends Cometa Mod. 300 break barrel i'm thinking of getting one for myself for vermin and target shooting,

I've been doing a bit of reading and know I need a licence but do I need 3 permissions from farmers next door or a training/safety course or even both?

I was advised to get a under lever model if possible because they wear better?

I like the look of the Weihrauch HW97K & especially the HW97KT but want something to perform well, I'm thinking of getting a .22 and hope to hit targets and kill vermin from 30 - 40 yards, with a good scope that is!

I was offered a new Gamo Blacknight by a dealer with a scope, mount and ammo for €350 but I have a preference for a wooden stock for some reason (never held anything else)

any tips/advice greatly appreciated...

extremetaz

30-40m is realistic range for an air rifle and the 22 is the better caliber to have.

You won't do any better than the HW97 in a non-PCP rifle - they're absolutely brilliant in every respect.

As regards the permissions - there's no number of permissions required, the super just has to be satisfied that you've enough ground to demonstrate the need for the rifle. In the case of an air rifle for pest control, that could be as little as a farmyard. Once you can convince them of the requirement, you'll be grand.

If you're going to target shoot then you must be a member of a club - and that's also sufficient justification on its own, but you will have to provide proof of club membership along with a PULSE number for the club/range.

You'll want to put down for 1000 pellets as your ammo count - reason being they can't be bought in tins of less than 500, and they can't be readily purchased from your local RFD. 1000 pellets will allow you to keep a stock of 2 tins of pellets.

DON'T buy the Gamo. They're budget in every regard and will perform as such.
DO buy decent ammo - JSB Exact Jumbo would be my recommendation in 22cal. Intershoot usually have a stock of them (although they appear to be out right now...)
DO make sure whatever scope you put on it is air/springer rated - Hawke is your best bet. There's no quicker way to make total ****e of a scope than to put it on a springer if it's not built to handle it; there are H&H rated scopes that an air rifle would destroy in jig time!
DO remember that you can't shoot a springer/ram off a rest - you MUST cradle the forestock in your hand. You'll hit nothing otherwise.

...that's about it really...

kop77

So I completed a safe handling course for shotgun/rifle at a shooting centre over the weekend and put down a deposit on a Weihrauch HW97KT .22

I'll get the paperwork in tomorrow for the licence but I just want to clarify the pest/vermin part.

I'll get a letter from my father saying I have permission to shoot on his land which consists of a 3 acre field a few miles from his house and also on the 0.5 acre and sheds at his house,

Would it be enough and say rabbits at the veg field and rats at the small .5 acre garden and around the yard?

Kran

I just got a HW 97 myself. It's amazing. I've a .22 and a .223 and the HW is definitely going to be my most used gun from now on. Shooting a magpie out of a tree is so satisfying.
Make sure you get a scope with "adjustable objective". When your buying one make sure it says AO in the specs. I'd recommend a Hawke Vantage 4-12 with 50mm Adjustable Objective and a Mil dot rectical. I have one on my .22 rimfire and it's definitely going on the HW. I currently have one with no Ajustable Objective on it and it's a pain due to "parallax" which means the cross hair is kind of blurry at short ranges because the scope is permanently focused at 100 yards straight out the factory.

kop77

kop77 wrote: »

So I completed a safe handling course for shotgun/rifle at a shooting centre over the weekend and put down a deposit on a Weihrauch HW97KT .22

I'll get the paperwork in tomorrow for the licence but I just want to clarify the pest/vermin part.

I'll get a letter from my father saying I have permission to shoot on his land which consists of a 3 acre field a few miles from his house and also on the 0.5 acre and sheds at his house,

Would it be enough and say rabbits at the veg field and rats at the small .5 acre garden and around the yard?

any takers on the bit above ... sending in the FCA1 forms today?
thanks

extremetaz

kop77 wrote: »

I'll get the paperwork in tomorrow for the licence but I just want to clarify the pest/vermin part.

Rodents, rabbits, and any birds on the annual derogations lists during the periods specified.

kop77 wrote: »

I'll get a letter from my father saying I have permission to shoot on his land which consists of a 3 acre field a few miles from his house and also on the 0.5 acre and sheds at his house,

Would it be enough and say rabbits at the veg field and rats at the small .5 acre garden and around the yard?

Yup, way more than sufficient.

Also to reiterate Kran's point about parallax adjustment, also referred to as side-focus or adjustable objective (AO). At short ranges, your standard fixed parallax scope will mean that you can't have both your reticle and your target in sharp focus at any meaningful magnification (ie: >2.5x or so). This bothers some people more than others (personally it drives me batty) so getting a scope with adjustable parallax is a good move for air rifle or 22lr. Far less necessary with longer distance rounds.

kop77

I got my Firearm Certificate Grant Notice Letter on Friday, paid the €80 on Saturday so I'd imagine I'll have my licence before the weekend...

Will the licence say how many rounds I can buy because I don't see it on the Grant Notice,

extremetaz

Yup, that will be on the back of the licence.

If it's not what you requested and you didn't get a written explanation as to why, then just call your FO and have them reissue with the correct amount.

slug gun

Kop77

I'm sure you'll enjoy your new HW97! What scope did you go for? I just got a Hawke Airmax 2-7x32AO for my HW30s, and it's perfect...light and on low mounts.

I'm a huge fan of HW's and have owned most of them! Currently a '30s, '55T and a '100T.

The '97 like all HW's are built extremely well and will last a lifetime if cared for properly. They're fine out of the box, but respond exceptionally to a proper strip, de-grease and re-lube. I can't recommend highly enough a Tbt guide kit also!

Happy shooting:)

Slug

"I plink, therefore I am"

kop77

mine is about 12 months old but its mint! I've asked the gunshop to give it a proper tune before I pick it up on Saturday,

there's a scope on the rifle, a KonusPro 6x40 I.R which I believe is a cheap enough scope but its shock proof according to various websites,

I'll start off with it and I can always upgrade down the line,

I'm allowed 500 pellets a go... so I'll probably go with the Air Arms Diablo 18 grain

kop77

Got this bad boy today and have been playing around all afternoon,

zero'd the scope at 30 yards and ready for action but I'm wondering if I should oil the silver piston that retracts to let you put in the pellet, I noticed the tiniest spec of rust and want to keep it at bay,

Edit: And more importantly what oil to use...

juice1304

You can get rid of the light rust with 000 or 0000 steel wool with a drop of oil.
If you mean the breach that retracts then yes you can give it a wipe with an oily rag but dont have oil in the barrel etc.. some people will do things like that to try and get higher pressures its called dieseling but it will ruin the seals fairly quickly and it makes no difference as it is anyway..
Just buy a normal gun oil. Do not use wd40 or the likes as it is not designed for such purposes, people will go on about it being great never any problems etc.. but it will leave a layer of gunk which will harden and cause problems i see it every day of the week.
Happy Hunting.

Kran

That's a beauty. I only recently got a HW97kt myself. Absolutely love it. After doing much research I bought a TBT kit and fitted it and while I was at it I polished the internals which is actually really easy. If you decided to do the same at some stage then it's a good time to polish off those marks aswell. Not much oil is needed at all and more of a paste lubricant is preferred. Some moly paste lube came with the kit and you only need the tiniest amount.
Have you tried many pellet types to see what groups the tightest in you gun?

extremetaz

I'd use silicon oil near any seals, just in case a mineral oil would react with them - otherwise, a wipe down of all the metal bits with an oily rag after every use will keep any corrosion at bay.

kop77

So I've been playing around the last couple of evenings with my new toy...

I thought there was a fault in my scope but I think I've figured out my problem,

I'm using Air Arms Diablo Field Heavy 18 Grains and at exactly 20 & 25 yards I can hit the bulleye but if I go back to 32 or 33 yards then it drops just under 2 inches,

pellets too heavy... should I try 16 grain or would it make much of a difference?

slug gun

I think a drop of 2 inches is a bit too much, causing a very loopy trajectory. 18 grains is more suited to a higher power pcp or beefed up springer in .22. I'm guessing power output of your '97 is standard and would perform better with a 14-16grain pellet. This will fly much flatter and faster, and i reckon only drop half an inch(14gr) compared to 2 inches that you're seeing. You could try H&N Field target trophy or JSB Exact RS, they're both around 14gr.

Each springer is different and you'll need to play around with the different combinations of pellet brands and pellet weights to see what works best in your springer.

Let us know how you go!

Kran

pellets too heavy... should I try 16 grain or would it make much of a difference?

Pellets will make a massive difference. You have to test as many as you can to see what suits your rifle the best. Every gun could be slightly different even though they are the same model. Try and get some 14.8 grain H&N Ftt pellets. Also get an app called ChairGun, you can enter your pellet type weight etc and your zero range and target range and it will work out your drops and aim points. I tried 18 grain Air Arms pellets zeroed at 20 and at 30 yards it would hit 13mm lower than your cross hairs. It's a really handy app.

kop77

Just got myself a tin of Air Arms Diabolo Field 16 grains and at 33 yards they get to between 1/2" and 1" of the bullseye, I'd be happy with that!!

I tried the 18 grain again and closest is 2"

kop77

I'm thinking of upgrading the scope, any suggestions on a type to go for...

I have Hawke in mind and the budget would be €250 - €350 but could stretch it a bit if needed. I'd like to go up to a 50mm lens with AO and mil dot centre etc etc etc

slug gun

The Hawke Airmax is a great choice. The 4-12 x 50AO has an etched reticle, 10xmil-dot, will focus down to 9m, and springer friendly! Not sure of costs here, but Krale have them for €250 +16 postage. UK won't ship out over 9 x mag!

Do you need 50mm objective? I find this mounts too high and prefer the 40mm. In saying that my preference at the moment is 2-7 x 32AO airmax...light, low and balanced.

kop77

slug gun wrote: »

The Hawke Airmax is a great choice. The 4-12 x 50AO has an etched reticle, 10xmil-dot, will focus down to 9m, and springer friendly! Not sure of costs here, but Krale have them for €250 +16 postage. UK won't ship out over 9 x mag!

Do you need 50mm objective? I find this mounts too high and prefer the 40mm. In saying that my preference at the moment is 2-7 x 32AO airmax...light, low and balanced.

The 50mm probably wont fit anyway unless I get new higher mounts, I have about 3 to 4mm of a gap with the 40mm scope that's on it,

I basically want an upgrade to the Konus-Pro 6x40 30/30 scope that I have which is a budget scope according to the interweb,

I might head up to Lakelands Mullingar tomorrow and have a look see...

Kran

slug gun wrote: »

The Hawke Airmax is a great choice. The 4-12 x 50AO has an etched reticle, 10xmil-dot, will focus down to 9m, and springer friendly! Not sure of costs here, but Krale have them for €250 +16 postage. UK won't ship out over 9 x mag!

Do you need 50mm objective? I find this mounts too high and prefer the 40mm. In saying that my preference at the moment is 2-7 x 32AO airmax...light, low and balanced.

Just wondering who is Krale? And do they sell scopes online?

kop77

Kran wrote: »

Just wondering who is Krale? And do they sell scopes online?

https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/optics/rifle-scopes.html

kop77

hmmm...:mad:

got myself a Combro CB-625 chronoscope in the post today and it's only putting out an average of 10.5 ft/lbs, long way off the 18ft/lb I was told when I bought it!!!!

I knew something was off!

Kran

kop77 wrote: »

Kran wrote: »

Just wondering who is Krale? And do they sell scopes online?

https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/optics/rifle-scopes.html

Wow, great looking website. Anyone get any scopes delivered from them?

Kran

kop77 wrote: »

hmmm...:mad:

got myself a Combro CB-625 chronoscope in the post today and it's only putting out an average of 10.5 ft/lbs, long way off the 18ft/lb I was told when I bought it!!!!

I knew something was off!

Have you opened her up yet? Could be a broken spring. I'm no expert but 10.5ft/lbs doesn't really sound too bad. Fair enough it's bad if you were hoping for 18 but if you were in the UK 10.5 to 11.5 is what you'd likely be working with anyway. My 97 has the full power export spring, I've no chrono yet but I'd expect it to be 16 ish at most. I almost wish it was closer to the 12 mark though as it would be nicer if it was quieter. If you find your spring is broken and do want a full power one I'd recommend a tuning kit from TBT in the UK. Easy to fit and easy to get delivered.

rsole1

kop77 wrote: »

I'm thinking of upgrading the scope, any suggestions on a type to go for...

I have Hawke in mind and the budget would be €250 - €350 but could stretch it a bit if needed. I'd like to go up to a 50mm lens with AO and mil dot centre etc etc etc

Opticswarehouse.co.uk. A lot cheaper, but has to go to Belfast for any mag over x9

slug gun

Sound like something is amiss! You should be getting around 14/15 ft lb...the figure of 18ft lb is misleading. If you have it set up with a Hornet kit you might reach 16-17ft lb, but it will be harsh to shoot and you'll have gorilla arms after 20 mins of cocking it!

There are a few things to consider why your '97 is producing low power...as Kran says, the mainspring could have broken or collapsed, the piston seal worn or the breach seal not making contact, to name some major factors! I bet it also could do with a proper degrease/deburr and correct lube. You'll need to strip and inspect to find out!

Weihrauch are super air rifles, but they need some extra TLC that the factory can't give due to time/money...then they are breathtakingly good! I suggest you swap out the spring for a Macarri or Vortek replacement. Check the two seals, as mentioned, and fit a TbT delrin guide kit. TbT (Nick Stanning in the UK) sells OEM springs but I recommend a better quality one such as the Macarri.

This is all quite manageable to do and not expensive...all well under €100, and very satisfying! PM me if you want, I've shot/tuned HW's for 25 yrs might be able to point you in the right direction.

Lastly, check you didn't get a UK spec '97...if it has HULL CARTRIDGE stamped on it, then it was always under 12ft lbs for the UK market.

ATB, Slug

kop77

^^ PM on the way...

clawback07

Kran wrote: »

Have you opened her up yet? Could be a broken spring. I'm no expert but 10.5ft/lbs doesn't really sound too bad. Fair enough it's bad if you were hoping for 18 but if you were in the UK 10.5 to 11.5 is what you'd likely be working with anyway. My 97 has the full power export spring, I've no chrono yet but I'd expect it to be 16 ish at most. I almost wish it was closer to the 12 mark though as it would be nicer if it was quieter. If you find your spring is broken and do want a full power one I'd recommend a tuning kit from TBT in the UK. Easy to fit and easy to get delivered.

Hi.
I had a B.S.A superten pcp in export power in .177 ,30 ft lb . This was after owning a Hw 77 which I turned my self and loved it. The BSA was just too much power , and if you removed the moderator it was very close to the sound of a shotgun .I could do no tuning myself on the rifle and I even contacted BSA to see about getting the power down to around 12 ft lb , but were hopeless to deal with .
Last year I traded it in for a Hw 97 it ,insisting that I wanted one in 12 ft lb , .177 which Lakeland got for me from Germany ! Happy at last ! My theory is that export power is coming up towards .22 LR subsonic but way too loud while 12 ft lb is quieter and definitely safer in ,say farm yard environments .

slug gun

clawback07

I'm with you on that one! If you want high power in an air rifle, it's probably best to go for a pcp than try and squeeze the last ounce of grunt from a springer (anyone remember trying to cock & fire a Webley Patriot!)

I really enjoy shooting my 30 ft lb HW100, but for uncomplicated, simple airgunning fun I'd reach for a 12 ft lb springer in .177 or my HW30s which is doing 670 fps with 7.9gr domes (only 7-8 ft lbs). Really easy to cock, light to hold and will put pellet on pellet at 30m all day long.

I think people underestimate how good a well set-up 12 ft lb springer is in .177, until they get a chance to try one out. I'm glad you asked for your HW97 in that spec, I know how fun they are to shoot and leave me with a smile on my face! One question, why'd you get rid of the HW77, if you liked it so much?:(

clawback07

slug gun wrote: »

clawback07

I'm with you on that one! If you want high power in an air rifle, it's probably best to go for a pcp than try and squeeze the last ounce of grunt from a springer (anyone remember trying to cock & fire a Webley Patriot!)

I really enjoy shooting my 30 ft lb HW100, but for uncomplicated, simple airgunning fun I'd reach for a 12 ft lb springer in .177 or my HW30s which is doing 670 fps with 7.9gr domes (only 7-8 ft lbs). Really easy to cock, light to hold and will put pellet on pellet at 30m all day long.


I think people underestimate how good a well set-up 12 ft lb springer is in .177, until they get a chance to try one out. I'm glad you asked for your HW97 in that spec, I know how fun they are to shoot and leave me with a smile on my face! One question, why'd you get rid of the HW77, if you liked it so much?:(

Hi slug gun
Why did I get rid of the the 77 ? Because I was a complete stook ! I bought it from Watts on Ormond quay and its' accuracy out of the box was fantastic ,shooting the heads off matches at 15 metres with a basic 4x32 Nikko sterling scope all day long .
Took it for granted , and traded it for a scope for a .22lr .Big mistake !
Went through various air rifles (one , a little Baikal izj 60 side lever was a cracker !) ,The BSA superten , and back to the hw 97 which is just as accurate as the 77 was .
If I could do it all again I'd still have the 77 !!

slug gun

Hi clawback07

I think we all regret selling a favorite rifle in a moment of madness! You reminded me that my first air rifle was an HW80, from Bobby down in Watts as well...happy memories as a kid of shooting 1000's of the good old original Eley Wasp pellets Must make more time to shoot more airguns