icbf levy ,pay up !

kerry cow

Whether you like it or not the powers that be ,say you must and will fund the icbf whether you like it or not .pay up .
Not one farm body representative said ya or ne.

wiggy123

heard that..can this be done!

Coolfresian

kerry cow wrote: »

Whether you like it or not the powers that be ,say you must and will fund the icbf whether you like it or not .pay up .
Not one farm body representative said ya or ne.

Is it from November 1st? Order a good few tags before then and ul avoid it. I said it before I don't agree with involuntary levys. If we want to use their services we pay a subscription. Il pay one or the other but not both.

wiggy123

hear you coolfresian
so as you said-paying for the same service twice

be like paying your tv licence, then every time you watched a tv show-pay for it also.. FARCE

mahoney_j

Zero issue with it ,I paid levy this year .savage work done by them as a dairy farmer who uses herd plus a good bit milk records ,genotype stock etc nothing only good things to say various different reports and the way there put together are invaluable to me .herd plus ,bull selection I could go on

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

Zero issue with it ,I paid levy this year .savage work done by them as a dairy farmer who uses herd plus a good bit milk records ,genotype stock etc nothing only good things to say various different reports and the way there put together are invaluable to me .herd plus ,bull selection I could go on

No one is disputing the work they do. The way the fees are paid should be reviewed. We also have the milk recording icbf levy, the ai handheld icbf levy, the tag levy and the annual fee. Could these not all be lumped into one?

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

No one is disputing the work they do. The way the fees are paid should be reviewed. We also have the milk recording icbf levy, the ai handheld icbf levy, the tag levy and the annual fee. Could these not all be lumped into one?

Very good point

yewtree

Its well worth the money, which is relatively small. I find herdplus excellent, best value i get out of €60.
if icbf is farmer funded our data will be under farmer control which i think is very important. Individual data isnt that valueable but a central database has massive value

visatorro

whelan2 wrote: »

No one is disputing the work they do. The way the fees are paid should be reviewed. We also have the milk recording icbf levy, the ai handheld icbf levy, the tag levy and the annual fee. Could these not all be lumped into one?

Pay in a lump sum with a bit of a discount!

Agree with MJ if you use all the facilities it's worth it but if your an average Joe soap your forking out for something you don't use.

kerry cow

Milk recording is a good tool. Really every dairy farmer should be doing it .would it be right if every co op deducted the fee whether you use it or not .
Sure I milk record and it fantastic , great service every dairy farmer should pay up, its good for the national herd ,

boggerman1

The hit they took this yr must have meant the 161 reg car couldn't be replaced with a 171

Sam Kade

Is the 38 cent for a box of tags or per animal?

tanko

Sam Kade wrote: »

Is the 38 cent for a box of tags or per animal?

Think it's per animal.

whelan2

Sam Kade wrote: »

Is the 38 cent for a box of tags or per animal?

per set of tags per animal....I am not knocking icbf but CLARITY is all thats wanted on what is paid on what , didnt know of the 50c ai hand held levy or 78 cent milk recording levy until I was talking to the chief executive of our ai orgainisation.

The part time boy

Not too sure where I stand on this . Icbf are important but I hate having a Levi that u no choice to pay or not .

Why did they allow us opt for one year anyway . Makes a joke of it

Bellview

Where can we see the detail profit and loss along with balance sheet for icbf. In annual report I notice a few graphs that don't tell a lot. I would like to see how much is spent on travel along with advertising
On beef side icbf gave a lot to do. They need to give transparency on how they rate an animal at scores as I can shoe 5 stars that would put me out if business ..now we have folks buying cattle on stars which us flawed as foljs assuming the stars are correct... when the stars are really only 50 per cent if lucky
also icbf have put a lot of effort into a program that states all breeds beef tastes the same and have given presentations in the UK...an angus and Hereford taste the same as a BB...
I'm in herd plus which is useful but the downside here is icbf own all our data and I'm waiting for the time they will screw us to get access to it..but that is 5 years time

Never wrestle with pigs

Payed this year will pay every year. Fantastic work being done by them and I can see the data reflecting what's happening on my farm.

kerry cow

I haven't paid this year and will order my tags early so as not to pay next year .it's all wrong,if you want the service then pay for it and if you don't then do not .
The problem is the guys that want it could not fund it without the guy who could careless about it .
If so why don't the people who want the service pay 1k or 2k per year .
Who owns icbf ? Is it a not profit organisation . Where are the fees and running costs and expenses printed for us all to read as we have and will be contributors.
What is the top brass paid ?

wiggy123

should not be compulsory + all should be transparent-re what monies they get.
re levies on all aspects of farming, be it the tags/milk/marts..etc
Did I read in the Farmers journal, they have gone from being a charitable organisation, so have to pay taxes now. Or did I read it wrong

whelan2

kerry cow wrote: »

I haven't paid this year and will order my tags early so as not to pay next year .it's all wrong,if you want the service then pay for it and if you don't then do not .
The problem is the guys that want it could not fund it without the guy who could careless about it .
If so why don't the people who want the service pay 1k or 2k per year .
Who owns icbf ? Is it a not profit organisation . Where are the fees and running costs and expenses printed for us all to read as we have and will be contributors.
What is the top brass paid ?

Info here on their website https://www.icbf.com/?page_id=27
Annual report including account here https://www.icbf.com/?page_id=319

kerry cow

whelan2 wrote:

Annual report including account here

whelan2 wrote:

Info here on their website

So the icbf has share holders ?
Has 1.7 million in the bank ?
Non profit making .
Owns 200k to 300k of livestock ?
No detail brake down of the top 5 employees pay and benefits. ?

Maybe whelan can explain to this uneducated farmer the details as I am open to correction

Bullocks

I'm not happy to pay it simply because I couldn't care less about their information . I'll stick to buying/breeding to my own personal choice .
As someone else said ,let the people that want it pay enough for their service and leave the rest of us alone .
Without paying anything aren't we helping them by not lying about calving difficulty when we are registering calves

Did we find a way to stop unscrupulous breeders from not declaring a hard calving or a high cell count freisan rearing another breeds calf while the real moma concentrates on trying to get back in calf without the draw of a weanling every day ?

Bullocks

kerry cow wrote: »

So the icbf has share holders ?
Has 1.7 million in the bank ?
Non profit making .
Owns 200k to 300k of livestock ?
No detail brake down of the top 5 employees pay and benefits. ?

Maybe whelan can explain to this uneducated farmer the details as I am open to correction

I bet there are no shareholders with vested interest haha

kerry cow

Look every thing is about money and it's just more of the same with the high flyers who can pull the strings of power to create a honey pot for themselves .all they really care about is a fat salary because when the next big ticket comes they be on that bus and won't give a fiddlers about the man in the boots .
Money money makes the world go round and if you get in the way you may get mowed down .imo
It's a job and there no romance or love to all this

How can it cost 17 millon to run a computer program in a office gather electronic information and print a index of bulls , a yearly print of your herd book .
Sounds like a lot to me .
It should be tendered out yearly to best offer .

Bullocks

kerry cow wrote: »

Look every thing is about money and it's just more of the same with the high flyers who can pull the strings of power to create a honey pot for themselves .all they really care about is a fat salary because when the next big ticket comes they be on that bus and won't give a fiddlers about the man in the boots .
Money money makes the world go round and if you get in the way you may get mowed down .imo

Exactly , maybe most farmers want this service and are happy to pay for it but I suspect alot would rather not . If that is the case it shows what a pack of sheep we are to fall in and accept another deduction without question .
Who gave the ok to for them to throw their charge on top of tag prices ?

freedominacup

visatorro wrote: »

Pay in a lump sum with a bit of a discount!

Agree with MJ if you use all the facilities it's worth it but if your an average Joe soap your forking out for something you don't use.

This is the problem. If the service is that good there'd be a queue around the block of people looking to sign up. Good commercial services rarely have any trouble getting paying customers. An involuntary levy means icbf can head off in any direction they choose with no reference to the people who are funding the business. There's already a very long list of shysters getting a cut of my income with no permission from me and no reference to any input I might have on their policies or actions. I didn’t pay this year but always pay herd plus.

freedominacup

Germinman wrote: »

Trolling in feedback is not allowed and will only receive a single warning before a ban. Multiple trolling posts may result in a straight ban without warning.

Que??

whelan2

freedominacup wrote: »

This is the problem. If the service is that good there'd be a queue around the block of people looking to sign up. Good commercial services rarely have any trouble getting paying customers. An involuntary levy means icbf can head off in any direction they choose with no reference to the people who are funding the business. There's already a very long list of shysters getting a cut of my income with no permission from me and no reference to any input I might have on their policies or actions. I didn’t pay this year but always pay herd plus.

But you are also paying on milk recording and ai hand held- if you use it. Probably paying in other ways too that we dont know about. Can they not just clarify what we pay on what to them. Simple as....

grassroot1

wiggy123 wrote: »

hear you coolfresian
so as you said-paying for the same service twice

be like paying your tv licence, then every time you watched a tv show-pay for it also.. FARCE

LIKE PAYING EXTRA FOR SKY DO YOU MEAN

whelan2

kerry cow wrote: »

So the icbf has share holders ?
Has 1.7 million in the bank ?
Non profit making .
Owns 200k to 300k of livestock ?
No detail brake down of the top 5 employees pay and benefits. ?

Maybe whelan can explain to this uneducated farmer the details as I am open to correction

Don't shoot the messenger. I just linked what you were asking for

rangler1

Bullocks wrote: »

I'm not happy to pay it simply because I couldn't care less about their information . I'll stick to buying/breeding to my own personal choice .
As someone else said ,let the people that want it pay enough for their service and leave the rest of us alone .
Without paying anything aren't we helping them by not lying about calving difficulty when we are registering calves

Did we find a way to stop unscrupulous breeders from not declaring a hard calving or a high cell count freisan rearing another breeds calf while the real moma concentrates on trying to get back in calf without the draw of a weanling every day ?

You'd be a bit simple to think that farmers that needed the service would pay either if it was left up to them.
Government won't give icbf an open cheque but they expect farmers to contribute to the same open cheque.....farmers will pay

Bullocks

rangler1 wrote: »

You'd be a bit simple to think that farmers that needed the service would pay either if it was left up to them.
Government won't give icbf an open cheque but they expect farmers to contribute to the same open cheque.....farmers will pay

I must be simple , I'm not able to provide my service whether people want it or not and get my money collected on the back of someone elses necessary service

rangler1

Bullocks wrote: »

I must be simple , I'm not able to provide my service whether people want it or not and get my money collected on the back of someone elses necessary service

Don't you know farmers, pay nothing unless it's compulsory

Bullocks

rangler1 wrote: »

Don't you know farmers, pay nothing unless it's compulsory

They're in every walk of life . I just dont see the need to make this service compulsory .
Still not compulsory to use the service ,just to pay for it :rolleyes:

freedominacup

rangler1 wrote: »

Don't you know farmers, pay nothing unless it's compulsory

And how does that make them different to the rest of the population?

There aren't many/any other industries which have the list of government agencies we have to deal with all expecting us to cover their overhead. I'll pay for any service I value. Forcing me to pay for something just because isn't going to ingratiate you or your service with me. The kicker us you are in the happy position of not giving a $hit because you're gonna get paid anyway, 'cos you're worth it.

boggerman1

I'm fairly sure that there are some farmers out there that dont have a clue what the icbf stands for let alone do and that every time they tag an animal they were paying money too them.i pay the €60 a yr but i want to pay that no problem

rangler1

freedominacup wrote: »

And how does that make them different to the rest of the population?

There aren't many/any other industries which have the list of government agencies we have to deal with all expecting us to cover their overhead. I'll pay for any service I value. Forcing me to pay for something just because isn't going to ingratiate you or your service with me. The kicker us you are in the happy position of not giving a $hit because you're gonna get paid anyway, 'cos you're worth it.

The fact that you're putting a tag in a calf surely means you have taken advantage of the research and developement of the breeding of that calf...can't expect taxpayers to pay for it.....or even a sheep farmer either.

freedominacup

rangler1 wrote: »

The fact that you're putting a tag in a calf surely means you have taken advantage of the research and developement of the breeding of that calf...can't expect taxpayers to pay for it.....or even a sheep farmer either.

What have icbf got to do with the R&D gone into breeding that calf or the taxpayer for that matter?

rangler1

freedominacup wrote: »

What have icbf got to do with the R&D gone into breeding that calf or the taxpayer for that matter?

Who'll pay for ICBF if the farmer doesn't, that'd be the taxpayer
As for ICBF breeding

---

''The Irish Cattle Breeding Federation (ICBF) was formally set up in 1998, and is a non-profit organisation charged with providing cattle breeding information services to the Irish dairy and beef industries.
ICBF exists to benefit our farmers, our agri-food industry and our wider communities through genetic gain. Genetic improvement comes abWe do this by the application of science and technology to ensure that our farmers and industry make the most profitable and sustainable decisions, through the use of the services provided from the ICBF cattle breeding database.out when the parents of the next generation are genetically superior to their contemporaries. Bringing about improvement requires:
Identification, ancestry and quantitative data on those traits of importance for large numbers of animals in each generation.
A genetic evaluation system to identify the genetically superior animals in each generation. An essential part of the genetic evaluation system is a scientific knowledge of the objectives and principles of cattle breeding.
A breeding scheme design that ensures the required data is available, and that farmers use genetically superior animals in each generation.
Well informed farmers and industry partners who willingly provide accurate data from their own farms and make full use of the information services provided by ICBF, and its service providing partners, in their breeding and farm management decisions.
Ultimately, all the activity outlined above revolves around the maintenance and growth of bla bla bla and more BS...You know yourself''

Bullocks

rangler1 wrote: »

Well informed farmers and industry partners who willingly provide accurate data from their own farms

It was all crap but that bit really takes the biscuit

rangler1

Bullocks wrote: »

It was all crap but that bit really takes the biscuit

And I thought I was the only one here that doubted the integrity of farmers, What hope has any scheme jf not taken serious........heard a prominent sheep breeder yesterday saying he wasn't recording for lambplus anymore. at least our sheeptag contribution is ''voluntary'' still if a bit confusing to get back

bogman_bass

kerry cow wrote: »

Look every thing is about money and it's just more of the same with the high flyers who can pull the strings of power to create a honey pot for themselves .all they really care about is a fat salary because when the next big ticket comes they be on that bus and won't give a fiddlers about the man in the boots .
Money money makes the world go round and if you get in the way you may get mowed down .imo
It's a job and there no romance or love to all this

How can it cost 17 millon to run a computer program in a office gather electronic information and print a index of bulls , a yearly print of your herd book .
Sounds like a lot to me .
It should be tendered out yearly to best offer .

It's not an old IBM sitting in a corner they're using. The amount of computing power they need to crunch the numbers is huge.
Add in top of that the wages for top class geneticists and data anylists.
Then they run Tully and the gene Ireland programs
That stuff doesn't take long to add up.

A not for profit doesn't mean it has to make a loss every year. That would be unsustainable

yewtree

So the lads that dont want to pay think there should be no national breeding programme or central database?
There should be no collective effort from farmers tolivestock improvement?

Bullocks

rangler1 wrote: »

And I thought I was the only one here that doubted the integrity of farmers, What hope has any scheme jf not taken serious........heard a prominent sheep breeder yesterday saying he wasn't recording for lambplus anymore. at least our sheeptag contribution is ''voluntary'' still if a bit confusing to get back

I'm not doubting the integrity of all farmers , but I seriously doubt it of the "industry partners and well informed farmers "

bogman_bass

How the hell did that post 3 times? My phone hates boards at the moment

Bullocks

yewtree wrote: »

So the lads that dont want to pay think there should be no national breeding programme or central database?
There should be no collective effort from farmers tolivestock improvement?

Couldnt care less if they do or dont but I didnt ask for this service so dont want to pay for it .
I actually find it a pain in the ass having to record calving difficulty when registering every calf , wonder would they give me 38c to run my software and supply them with my info for them to run their business

Bullocks

bogman_bass wrote: »

How the hell did that post 3 times? My phone hates boards at the moment

If you were ordering a tag that would have cost over a euro

Buford T. Justice XIX

bogman_bass wrote: »

How the hell did that post 3 times? My phone hates boards at the moment

It's an ongoing problem and a right PITA:mad:

It mostly seems to come from using the quick reply instead of the quote button in the post you're replying to?

alps

rangler1 wrote: »

Don't you know farmers, pay nothing unless it's compulsory

60% paid....

Water John

Yes Alps, paid the levy. It was voluntary and transparent, which is what I require of all levies for services, only some farmers use.
I was able to make a decision. That option is now being taken away from me.

TalkingBull

is this going to be on replacement tags aswell?

edit: i see from whelans link to icbf, levy not paid on replacements