Switch from big diesel to Leaf make sense?

g0g

I posted a thread in the Buying forum, but this is probably the better place to focus my question.

Current car: 2011 Skoda Superb 2.0 with around 115,000km on the clock. It's an Elegance spec so I'd value it around € 12,000ish with annual motor tax around I think the € 390 bracket and insurance around € 800 I think.

Mileage Requirements: In a word, minimal! Round trip to creche most days 5-6km and I'd commute on average 1-3 days per week with a 35km ish roundtrip.

This was originally a main car but has become the second car with three young kids as they don't fit, so we use 5008 to travel anywhere.

Looks like for the value of my car I could get something like a 2012/2013 Leaf if I got the 24kw battery. Seems like range would be more than enough for my average driving and I could use the other car if ever needed for long journeys etc.

My questions:
1) Which of the two will depreciate faster?
2) Does my mileage look to be enough that I'll see any sort of saving with the move if I made it?
3) Would a small petrol car make more economic sense? (only catch for me is I love my gadgets and very few small cars seem to come with that many at the price range I'm looking at)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions from the EV community!

I've read some of the other buying threads and they've inspired me to look into this further! I'd be happy to take on the adventure of importing one if I thought it'd make sense.

cros13

g0g wrote: »

1) Which of the two will depreciate faster?

Depends on how long you keep it.

Over 3-5 years I'd say the Leaf would hold it's value better if it's a 132 Mk1.5 24kWh.
The other way around if you went for a 2012/131 Mk1.

If you were planning on keeping it more than 5 years I'd bet on either Leaf beating the Skoda.

g0g wrote: »

2) Does my mileage look to be enough that I'll see any sort of saving with the move if I made it?
3) Would a small petrol car make more economic sense? (only catch for me is I love my gadgets and very few small cars seem to come with that many at the price range I'm looking at)

TBH yes, a small petrol would beat it. But that's mainly due to the tiny mileage in your example. The main financial benefit is in fuel costs where nightsaver electricity is 10-12 times cheaper than petrol or diesel per km.

Many people's experience is that you will transfer a lot of your mileage to the EV as soon as you get it and it will become your primary car.
I would be very surprised if the average mileage among EV drivers wasn't higher than diesel drivers. In my own case my primary EV alone does 60,000km/annum.

For the non-financial side the Leaf is easier to live with, the 80kW motor in the Leaf will be a bit of a step up from the 2.0 diesel in power and of course cabin pre-heating in the winter etc. etc.

goz83

I would echo what Cros said above and I will add that you should ideally look at a late 2013 Leaf, which is when the better battery came along. It also shows battery percentage on the display, which I prefer.

Our Zafira was driven the most. I had an E200, so similar size vehicles to what you have. We imported a 141 Leaf Tekna (all the gadgets ) and the Leaf immediately became the main car with almost all mileage moved from the Zafira. This was in March. 5 weeks ago, we bought a 2012 Leaf Acenta here for a bargain 5k. The Zafira was sold a few days later.

Unless you are carrying a lot of baby stuff, you should be able to fit 3 kids and 2 adults into a Superb. I know I can fit 3 kids into the back of the Leaf, including a baby and booster seat...2 boosters if needed.

Bigus

Id stick with the superb for now and I'd wait until the newer leaf is released, as the arsill definitely fall out of used leaf values then , just like an iPhone 4s and such advancing tech.

goz83

Bigus wrote: »

Id stick with the superb for now and I'd wait until the newer leaf is released, as the arsill definitely fall out of used leaf values then , just like an iPhone 4s and such advancing tech.

There is no definite about it. I don't expect to see much change in price at all with the exception of some deals on the current gen Leafs still not sold.

Orebro

Bigus wrote: »

Id stick with the superb for now and I'd wait until the newer leaf is released, as the arsill definitely fall out of used leaf values then , just like an iPhone 4s and such advancing tech.

Nonsense. How can you compare a mobile phone to a car?! The reason the phones lose their value is because iOS for example advances along with the other software which requires more advanced tech to run. A Leaf will take you to work and back no matter how many new models of it come out. Can't believe I even had to type that. It makes as much sense as comparing a phone to your fireplace.

Bigus

Orebro wrote: »

Nonsense. How can you compare a mobile phone to a car?! The reason the phones lose their value is because iOS for example advances along with the other software which requires more advanced tech to run. A Leaf will take you to work and back no matter how many new models of it come out. Can't believe I even had to type that. It makes as much sense as comparing a phone to your fireplace.

The op asked which would depreciate quicker , a diesel superb or a Leaf.

I'll stand over my opinion that the leaf will depreciate a lot more more , after my experience selling the cheapest 151 leaf in Ireland and it still taking over 3 months .
Leafs are a pioneering tech and will suffer from that, just like early smart phones.

g0g

goz83 wrote: »

I would echo what Cros said above and I will add that you should ideally look at a late 2013 Leaf, which is when the better battery came along. It also shows battery percentage on the display, which I prefer.

Our Zafira was driven the most. I had an E200, so similar size vehicles to what you have. We imported a 141 Leaf Tekna (all the gadgets ) and the Leaf immediately became the main car with almost all mileage moved from the Zafira. This was in March. 5 weeks ago, we bought a 2012 Leaf Acenta here for a bargain 5k. The Zafira was sold a few days later.

Unless you are carrying a lot of baby stuff, you should be able to fit 3 kids and 2 adults into a Superb. I know I can fit 3 kids into the back of the Leaf, including a baby and booster seat...2 boosters if needed.

Hmmmm, well late 2013 I'm assuming will mean a cost to switch cars? Ballpark what would they go for?

These posts have me thinking. My wife commutes to Lucan so she could use that car and leave the other yoke at home for when I need a car.

Re the Superb, no if you google you'll see they're not suitable for 3 cars seats. The problem is the bucket effect of the back seats mean you don't get to use the space right out to the door. That plus the middle seat has tiny space between the buckles and no way can the guy in the booster manage to click in the buckle when it's under his seat. Strangely from looking at the pics it seems like a Leaf might manage to squeeze 3 car seats ok, but I doubt massive amounts in the boot?

g0g

cros13 wrote: »

Depends on how long you keep it.

Over 3-5 years I'd say the Leaf would hold it's value better if it's a 132 Mk1.5 24kWh.
The other way around if you went for a 2012/131 Mk1.

If you were planning on keeping it more than 5 years I'd bet on either Leaf beating the Skoda.

TBH yes, a small petrol would beat it. But that's mainly due to the tiny mileage in your example. The main financial benefit is in fuel costs where nightsaver electricity is 10-12 times cheaper than petrol or diesel per km.

Many people's experience is that you will transfer a lot of your mileage to the EV as soon as you get it and it will become your primary car.
I would be very surprised if the average mileage among EV drivers wasn't higher than diesel drivers. In my own case my primary EV alone does 60,000km/annum.

For the non-financial side the Leaf is easier to live with, the 80kW motor in the Leaf will be a bit of a step up from the 2.0 diesel in power and of course cabin pre-heating in the winter etc. etc.

I don't see any reason I'd need to change soon other than wanting something new.

Big catch with small petrol is it won't have half the gadgets of the Leaf!

Cabin pre-heating!? Can this be done remotely via the keys or an app or something? Does it "cost" much battery?

cros13

g0g wrote: »

Hmmmm, well late 2013 I'm assuming will mean a cost to switch cars? Ballpark what would they go for?

Around €12-13k for anything half decent.

g0g wrote: »

These posts have me thinking. My wife commutes to Lucan so she could use that car and leave the other yoke at home for when I need a car.

Re the Superb, no if you google you'll see they're not suitable for 3 cars seats. The problem is the bucket effect of the back seats mean you don't get to use the space right out to the door. That plus the middle seat has tiny space between the buckles and no way can the guy in the booster manage to click in the buckle when it's under his seat. Strangely from looking at the pics it seems like a Leaf might manage to squeeze 3 car seats ok, but I doubt massive amounts in the boot?

The Leaf is not a small car. It's a similar height to the old Quashqai and weight 1.6 tons.

The Leaf's boot is 370L which is larger than something like a Focus (316L) but the superb's 600L boot is unusually large.

g0g wrote: »

I don't see any reason I'd need to change soon other than wanting something new.

Big catch with small petrol is it won't have half the gadgets of the Leaf!

Cabin pre-heating!? Can this be done remotely via the keys or an app or something? Does it "cost" much battery?

Via the keys or via the app or on schedule... heats or cools to your pre-set cabin temp... clears the windscreen too. Doesn't cost any battery as your car is usually plugged in when you do it, outside of that maybe half a kWh (i.e.1-2% of your battery).

goz83

Bigus wrote: »

The op asked which would depreciate quicker , a diesel superb or a Leaf.

I'll stand over my opinion that the leaf will depreciate a lot more more , after my experience selling the cheapest 151 leaf in Ireland and it still taking over 3 months .
Leafs are a pioneering tech and will suffer from that, just like early smart phones.

Time will tell. Either of us could be wrong, but I doubt there will be much in the difference anyway. The superb is a decent car and is desireable.

I don't kniw why it took you 3 months to sell the cheapest 151 Leaf in Ireland. They tend to sell quickly enough. Did you not like the car? Maybe it wasn't your thing? Perhaps if that's the case, potential buyers picked up on the negativity.

g0g wrote: »

Hmmmm, well late 2013 I'm assuming will mean a cost to switch cars? Ballpark what would they go for?

These posts have me thinking. My wife commutes to Lucan so she could use that car and leave the other yoke at home for when I need a car.

Re the Superb, no if you google you'll see they're not suitable for 3 cars seats. The problem is the bucket effect of the back seats mean you don't get to use the space right out to the door. That plus the middle seat has tiny space between the buckles and no way can the guy in the booster manage to click in the buckle when it's under his seat. Strangely from looking at the pics it seems like a Leaf might manage to squeeze 3 car seats ok, but I doubt massive amounts in the boot?

You can get a 2014 Acenta landed for 10k. A Tekna will be around 12k and those are UK main dealer prices. Sterling is getting killed right now. The Tekna has a few extras including 360 reverse cameras, leather heated front and rear seats, heated steering wheel and 17" rims.

I have fit a large baby seat and 2 base boosters into the Leaf. A bit awkward to buckle the booster kids in, but doable.

g0g

goz83 wrote: »

You can get a 2014 Acenta landed for 10k. A Tekna will be around 12k and those are UK main dealer prices. Sterling is getting killed right now. The Tekna has a few extras including 360 reverse cameras, leather heated front and rear seats, heated steering wheel and 17" rims.

I have fit a large baby seat and 2 base boosters into the Leaf. A bit awkward to buckle the booster kids in, but doable.

Just had a look on Autotrader and year I see a few plus that Tekna spec sounds lovely! Can't believe one as new as 2014 would be that price. I wonder are any/many dealers importing them direct if it's a bit more hassle to move them (EVs) the longer distance with charging? Would love to do it myself but may not have the time. Will do a lot more reading online and through threads on here for the moment. So the big difference between importing one of these and a normal car is (1) no VRT and (2) factor in charging, right?

Soarer

Bigus wrote: »

The op asked which would depreciate quicker , a diesel superb or a Leaf.

I'll stand over my opinion that the leaf will depreciate a lot more more , after my experience selling the cheapest 151 leaf in Ireland and it still taking over 3 months .
Leafs are a pioneering tech and will suffer from that, just like early smart phones.

So you think, in 5 years time, a 9 year old Leaf with minimal running costs is gonna be worth less than a 10 year old Skoda Superb diesel?

Don't see it myself.

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

So you think, in 5 years time, a 9 year old Leaf with minimal running costs is gonna be worth less than a 10 year old Skoda Superb diesel?

Don't see it myself.

It would depend if it was a gen1 or 1.5 leaf.
IMO
I can see good residuals in the 1.5 leaf even after 10+ years vs ICE cars due to the changing market but also exponentially less battery deg vs the 1st leafs.

goz83

g0g wrote: »

Just had a look on Autotrader and year I see a few plus that Tekna spec sounds lovely! Can't believe one as new as 2014 would be that price. I wonder are any/many dealers importing them direct if it's a bit more hassle to move them (EVs) the longer distance with charging? Would love to do it myself but may not have the time. Will do a lot more reading online and through threads on here for the moment. So the big difference between importing one of these and a normal car is (1) no VRT and (2) factor in charging, right?

Have a look at the threads where some of us have recently imported from the UK. I have one, mel.b and kceire have all imported in recent months.

The trip can be done in a day and planning the journey for charging is straight forward enough. I would say it's good fun and well worth it. I collected mine Near Luton, London (141 Tekna) costing £11k at 1.14 exchange rate. I chose the more expensive option of bringing the wife and staying overnight. Kceire got his in Scotland and Mel.b got hers not far from holyhead, just north of Liverpool iirc.

Bigus

Soarer wrote: »

So you think, in 5 years time, a 9 year old Leaf with minimal running costs is gonna be worth less than a 10 year old Skoda Superb diesel?

Don't see it myself.

I didn't say that , over 5 years,

I stated that current leaf values , will drop very very quickly once gen 2 leaf is released (soon)or tech improves, like Hyundai do a 300 km battery .
In the short term a leaf will depreciate much more quickly than a superb diesel , so I'm advising the op to hold off for a few months as per his original question.
24 kW leaf range is a joke and will seem even more so soon, therefore prices will drop , with the floor price being the salvage worth of the battery.
30kw leaf is slightly better but inefficient compared to an ionic so in time this will also seem archaic.
Just ask PCP financiers are they nervous about leaf residuals, hint ; the answer is in current PCP quotes .

Soarer

Bigus wrote: »

24 kW leaf range is a joke and will seem even more so soon

No it's not.

If you need to travel 150kms per day, it's not suitable.

But for someone like me, that averages about 40kms per day, even my 2011 Leaf that's at 75% capacity suits me perfectly.

It's different strokes for different folks.

Bigus

Soarer wrote: »

No it's not.

If you need to travel 150kms per day, it's not suitable.

But for someone like me, that averages about 40kms per day, even my 2011 Leaf that's at 75% capacity suits me perfectly.

It's different strokes for different folks.

Agreed , 40 Kms or 25 miles per day would be comfortable in a leaf .

Orebro

Bigus wrote: »

24 kW leaf range is a joke and will seem even more so soon

Just to put a 24kWh Leaf range into perspective - it is far from a joke I can assure you.

E.g. from Cork City you can make a return journey comfortably (without charging) to Macroom, Bandon, Kinsale, Midleton, Mallow - encompassing an overwhelming majority of commuters, I would argue most of which an EV would suit perfectly.

Bigus

Orebro wrote: »

Just to put a 24kWh Leaf range into perspective - it is far from a joke I can assure you.

E.g. from Cork City you can make a return journey comfortably (without charging) to Macroom, Bandon, Kinsale, Midleton, Mallow - encompassing an overwhelming majority of commuters, I would argue most of which an EV would suit perfectly.

If there were many multiples of the current public chargers and they weren't iced or suffering from software and other glitches ,the current Leaf range might not be such a joke . However as of today in Ireland ,driving a Nissan Leaf is like going around with your fuel reserve warning light on since yesterday.

Many many people will not accept this lack of range compromise as part of their mobility options, mainly due to unforeseen and spontaneous needs. Hence used Leaf values being hit hard due to lack of demand.

Unlike some , I bought a Leaf to educate myself so I'm not uninformed and ignorant.

Also it's the middle of summer , without the cold, strong headwinds, wiper and heater requirements to reduce range which temporarily make the range slightly less of a joke in summer .

Orebro

Bigus wrote: »

If there were many multiples of the current public chargers and they weren't iced or suffering from software and other glitches ,the current Leaf range might not be such a joke . However as of today in Ireland ,driving a Nissan Leaf is like going around with your fuel reserve warning light on since yesterday.

Many many people will not accept this lack of range compromise as part of their mobility options, mainly due to unforeseen and spontaneous needs. Hence used Leaf values being hit hard due to lack of demand.

Unlike some , I bought a Leaf to educate myself so I'm not uninformed and ignorant.

Also it's the middle of summer , without the cold, strong headwinds, wiper and heater requirements to reduce range which temporarily make the range slightly less of a joke in summer .

Sounds like you've been stung by your experience alright - I presume it just wasn't the car for you. That's fair enough, they obviously don't suit everyone.

The 24kWh Leaf range is only a joke it it doesn't meet your distance requirements, it's unfair to say it's a joke in all circumstances. Like I've mentioned above, I do those journeys regularly and there are zero range issues.

Soarer

Bigus wrote: »

If there were many multiples of the current public chargers and they weren't iced or suffering from software and other glitches ,the current Leaf range might not be such a joke . However as of today in Ireland ,driving a Nissan Leaf is like going around with your fuel reserve warning light on since yesterday.

Many many people will not accept this lack of range compromise as part of their mobility options, mainly due to unforeseen and spontaneous needs. Hence used Leaf values being hit hard due to lack of demand.

Unlike some , I bought a Leaf to educate myself so I'm not uninformed and ignorant.

Also it's the middle of summer , without the cold, strong headwinds, wiper and heater requirements to reduce range which temporarily make the range slightly less of a joke in summer .

What happened to you to say you've such a dislike for the Leaf?

Bigus

Soarer wrote: »

What happened to you to say you've such a dislike for the Leaf?

Range , range , range and range , and now since release of the Ioniq, efficiency.

A leaf at 120 Kmh is disastrous consumption wise.

Also It's a pain in the ass losing a few % battery charge driving for a few minutes 3 km gingerly home from the public charger.

No harm done , but pioneering tech always dates quickly, therefore affecting residuals..... that's my point.

I've nothing against leafs , they drive quite well , but people need to buy with their eyes wide open because of real world range limitations.

Soarer

Bigus wrote: »

Range , range , range and range , and now since release of the Ioniq, efficiency.

A leaf at 120 Kmh is disastrous consumption wise.

Also It's a pain in the ass losing a few % battery charge driving for a few minutes 3 km gingerly home from the public charger.

No harm done , but pioneering tech always dates quickly, therefore affecting residuals..... that's my point.

I've nothing against leafs , they drive quite well , but people need to buy with their eyes wide open because of real world range limitations.

So you basically experienced what every other Leaf driver experiences, except you went all hyperbolic and called the range a joke.

The range suits some people perfectly, most people well, and the minority not at all.
You're in the minority. Pity you had to pay to find out.

Are you the chap that bought the Megane afterwards?

cros13

Easy lads.

Horses for courses and all that.

I think there's a solid floor under any EVs value because of even a clapped out EVs utility as a practically zero maintenance, near-zero running costs runabout.
So that was my primary point when it came to the 5 year plus depreciation.

sgalvin

How often to the 5 of you go in the car together.
I have a fluence and it does take 2 hiback boosters and a loose booster with a bit of a fiddle to get the seat belts on.

In reality when only 4 of us were travelling, I would put the eldest in the front to reduce the risk of a fight!
Now he's a bit older, he doesn't need the booster so with him in the middle the car they can put their own seatbelts.

Although the mpvs do take 3 isofix in the back, they still have the same issue with seatbelts when you move away from the seats with their own harnesses. I've done both mpvs and saloons aren't any worse!

As said before the big savings in electric cars is about 7cent/km, so for 100 km/week it's not a lot of savings.

For the distance you mention I'd buy a bicycle for yourself. Seriously.

Or an MX-5 depending on your interest.

goz83 wrote: »

I would echo what Cros said above and I will add that you should ideally look at a late 2013 Leaf, which is when the better battery came along. It also shows battery percentage on the display, which I prefer.

Our Zafira was driven the most. I had an E200, so similar size vehicles to what you have. We imported a 141 Leaf Tekna (all the gadgets ) and the Leaf immediately became the main car with almost all mileage moved from the Zafira. This was in March. 5 weeks ago, we bought a 2012 Leaf Acenta here for a bargain 5k. The Zafira was sold a few days later.

Unless you are carrying a lot of baby stuff, you should be able to fit 3 kids and 2 adults into a Superb. I know I can fit 3 kids into the back of the Leaf, including a baby and booster seat...2 boosters if needed.

Bigus

Soarer wrote: »

So you basically experienced what every other Leaf driver experiences, except you went all hyperbolic and called the range a joke.

The range suits some people perfectly, most people well, and the minority not at all.
You're in the minority. Pity you had to pay to find out.

Are you the chap that bought the Megane afterwards?

No I didn't buy a Megane.

goz83

sgalvin wrote: »

How often to the 5 of you go in the car together.
I have a fluence and it does take 2 hiback boosters and a loose booster with a bit of a fiddle to get the seat belts on.

5 of us travel together very often, every other day. When more of us are going somewhere, we use both Leafs.

sgalvin wrote: »

As said before the big savings in electric cars is about 7cent/km, so for 100 km/week it's not a lot of savings.

You see, here's the thing.....it depends on what you were driving before. We were spending 40-50 per week most weeks in each of our petrol cars. We now spend about €5 per week on both cars. I reckon I am happy with those savings.....not to mention the 1k per year saved on tax.

We did not want Diesel cars. We see them as dirty, smelly yokes that only contribute to the demise of our local air quality.

sgalvin wrote: »

For the distance you mention I'd buy a bicycle for yourself. Seriously.

I have a bicycle, but i'm not a fan of cycling much. I don't fancy turning up at a clients premises dripping in sweat and smelling like traffic. I also don't like the idea of carrying home bags of shopping on my bike if I can help it. I cycle for recreation and avoid the roads as much as possible when I do.

sgalvin wrote: »

Or an MX-5 depending on your interest.

I had a number of FTOs. I do like the MX-5

sgalvin

I intended querying the original poster but all insight is useful!

Cycling is not an option when customer facing the op mentioned a return of 35 km a few times a week which is ideal cycle distance if you can get a shower at work.

Similar to yourself i was spending €40-50/week on petrol and now I am not!

If the op is travelling 100km/week predominantly on short trips, diesel
isn't really the answer, and for such little driving, economy doesn't matter much either. Money would be better spent on insulation etc.

goz83 wrote: »

5 of us travel together very often, every other day. When more of us are going somewhere, we use both Leafs.



You see, here's the thing.....it depends on what you were driving before. We were spending 40-50 per week most weeks in each of our petrol cars. We now spend about €5 per week on both cars. I reckon I am happy with those savings.....not to mention the 1k per year saved on tax.

We did not want Diesel cars. We see them as dirty, smelly yokes that only contribute to the demise of our local air quality.



I have a bicycle, but i'm not a fan of cycling much. I don't fancy turning up at a clients premises dripping in sweat and smelling like traffic. I also don't like the idea of carrying home bags of shopping on my bike if I can help it. I cycle for recreation and avoid the roads as much as possible when I do.



I had a number of FTOs. I do like the MX-5

unkel

Bigus wrote: »

Range , range , range and range , and now since release of the Ioniq, efficiency.

A leaf at 120 Kmh is disastrous consumption wise.

There's no point denying motorway range in a Leaf is an issue. Now if you never need to go further than 100km in a day, or very rarely, or if you don't mind driving at 90km/h, this is not a bother

I do like making progress on motorways. But doing that and having to potentially stop 2 or 3 times on a long journey would get old very quickly if travelling with your family. I did realise that when considering buying a Leaf last year. And the 30kWh model isn't that much better at speed either (and it was out of my budget)

When I realised that in the Ioniq you could do any long journey in Ireland with just the 1 stop, I quite quickly convinced myself to buy one and I knew it wouldn't be too hard to sell that concept to the family

Shefwedfan

Have you driven a Leaf yet?

I would not just look at Leaf to be honest, there is other options out there.

I would prefer the Zoe to the Leaf in terms of looks....http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/renault/zoe/used-2015-152-renault-zoe-electric-ca-meath-fpa-63114065474911360

Probably out of budget but this is beautiful: https://www.usedcarsni.com/2017-Mercedes-Benz-B-Class-B250-e-Sport-5dr-Auto-189083054

Or join the growing eGolf revolution(I think there is 4 of us in Ireland now) http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-e-golf-dublin-fpa-5001655738401152932

g0g

Thanks all for the continued replies. The debate is really helpful to show me different views on the topic!

To answer the person who asked, yes I own a bike and cycle most days to/from work. However, right now having one car would be too impractical. Both of us are involved in creche drop or collection. It's too far to walk from home for winter months and the route isn't practical for a cargo bike. I also play sports some nights and would need a car for that and wouldn't want to leave nothing at home. I do also drive the odd day to work although ideally would love to eliminate that.

Regarding this new Leaf, is it coming soon i.e. actually landing here with people trading in for it?

Love the idea of Ionic or eGolf but I said I don't want to have to pay (well maybe a small bit) for the switch from current car.

What about the charging tech? Do people think that'll change and in a few years you'll need to be changing your home setup?

KCross

g0g wrote: »

Regarding this new Leaf, is it coming soon i.e. actually landing here with people trading in for it?

What about the charging tech? Do people think that'll change and in a few years you'll need to be changing your home setup?

Educated guess is that Leaf II will be on the roads here in 181 since the reveal is in a few weeks (Sep 6).

Home charging won't change in the medium term. Beyond that its impossible to tell.

Shefwedfan

g0g wrote: »

Thanks all for the continued replies. The debate is really helpful to show me different views on the topic!

To answer the person who asked, yes I own a bike and cycle most days to/from work. However, right now having one car would be too impractical. Both of us are involved in creche drop or collection. It's too far to walk from home for winter months and the route isn't practical for a cargo bike. I also play sports some nights and would need a car for that and wouldn't want to leave nothing at home. I do also drive the odd day to work although ideally would love to eliminate that.

Regarding this new Leaf, is it coming soon i.e. actually landing here with people trading in for it?

Love the idea of Ionic or eGolf but I said I don't want to have to pay (well maybe a small bit) for the switch from current car.

What about the charging tech? Do people think that'll change and in a few years you'll need to be changing your home setup?

For the eGolf I just put in 32amp socket, so any cable will then connect to it. The eGolf will only charge at 16amp but the 32amp is future proofing it.....

I would not rule out the Zoe.....far better looking car to the Leaf

Soarer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Have you driven a Leaf yet?

I would not just look at Leaf to be honest, there is other options out there.

I would prefer the Zoe to the Leaf in terms of looks....http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/renault/zoe/used-2015-152-renault-zoe-electric-ca-meath-fpa-63114065474911360

Probably out of budget but this is beautiful: https://www.usedcarsni.com/2017-Mercedes-Benz-B-Class-B250-e-Sport-5dr-Auto-189083054

Or join the growing eGolf revolution(I think there is 4 of us in Ireland now) http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-e-golf-dublin-fpa-5001655738401152932

That Merc is lovely. Has no rapid charging though.

What sort of range are you getting from the Golf? What type of charging does it use?

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would prefer the Zoe to the Leaf in terms of looks....http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/renault/zoe/used-2015-152-renault-zoe-electric-ca-meath-fpa-63114065474911360

Or join the growing eGolf revolution(I think there is 4 of us in Ireland now) http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-e-golf-dublin-fpa-5001655738401152932

Crazy prices on carzone!

Cheapest second hand Ioniq on there is €27k. And that's one with the free solid white colour. I paid a lot less for mine brand new with metallic paint. LOL!

Shefwedfan

Soarer wrote: »

That Merc is lovely. Has no rapid charging though.

What sort of range are you getting from the Golf? What type of charging does it use?

Standard day is circa 150km....could get better if I turned off everything and didn't drive like a looney :P guy on Facebook is getting a lot higher than me

It is same charger as Ioniq....CCS isn't it? :P I have used charge points a total of 3 times I think now....

I know there is one in Ashbourne and Blanchardstown....that about it

Soarer

The Golfs are lovely. Always liked them.

Don't think my stomach could handle paying for one though!

g0g

So.....coming back to this thread!

A family member is selling their car and interested in mine, so I'm stepping up a notch in my interest and might take the plunge. Ultimately, worst case scenario it's the wrong choice, I've made the wrong decision and I switch back to something else in the future. I've talked to three friends who are owners and all are happy. I have a good idea on the limitations in terms of range and I'm happy that one would suit our needs.

Can someone clarify one thing for me. I know I'll need to install a charge point at home to do this properly, but will the car also charge from normal mains socket? Something called a granny plug? If so, is that painfully slow?

A friend recommended this crowd who can source UK models and will deliver to Holyhead, thus making my life a bit easier. We were in touch today and he reckons he could source a 2014 Tekna spec with 25-30K miles and 6.6 charger for around £ 10K. I was thinking then for € 12K I would pretty much have one in the country possibly even with charge point.

Then I got re-looking on carzone and came across the likes of this one and I'm wondering is there that much benefit in looking at a UK one?

Shefwedfan

g0g wrote: »

So.....coming back to this thread!

A family member is selling their car and interested in mine, so I'm stepping up a notch in my interest and might take the plunge. Ultimately, worst case scenario it's the wrong choice, I've made the wrong decision and I switch back to something else in the future. I've talked to three friends who are owners and all are happy. I have a good idea on the limitations in terms of range and I'm happy that one would suit our needs.

Can someone clarify one thing for me. I know I'll need to install a charge point at home to do this properly, but will the car also charge from normal mains socket? Something called a granny plug? If so, is that painfully slow?

A friend recommended this crowd who can source UK models and will deliver to Holyhead, thus making my life a bit easier. We were in touch today and he reckons he could source a 2014 Tekna spec with 25-30K miles and 6.6 charger for around £ 10K. I was thinking then for € 12K I would pretty much have one in the country possibly even with charge point.

Then I got re-looking on carzone and came across the likes of this one and I'm wondering is there that much benefit in looking at a UK one?

You can use a granny cable. It is slower but if you are using over night it should charge. Leaf users will confirm. But not all cars come with granny cable and standard cable so you need to check that

KCross

g0g wrote: »

Can someone clarify one thing for me. I know I'll need to install a charge point at home to do this properly, but will the car also charge from normal mains socket? Something called a granny plug? If so, is that painfully slow?

If you buy a 6.6kW UK car you are likely, but not certain, to get 2 cables.... the type 2 cable and the granny cable but you need to confirm.

The type 2 cable charges at 16A (3kW) or 32A (6kW) depending on the car and the charge point.

The granny cable has a standard domestic 3 pin plug on it and charges at 10A (2kW). So you can do the math from that as to how long it will take to charge the car bearing in mind the car has 21kWh's usable.

g0g wrote: »

A friend recommended this crowd who can source UK models and will deliver to Holyhead, thus making my life a bit easier. We were in touch today and he reckons he could source a 2014 Tekna spec with 25-30K miles and 6.6 charger for around £ 10K. I was thinking then for € 12K I would pretty much have one in the country possibly even with charge point.

For a top spec Tekna he's not far off on his price. If you watch out for deals you will do better but you have to weigh that against the bother of going over relative to someone handing you the keys. Personal decision really.

g0g wrote: »

Then I got re-looking on carzone and came across the likes of this one and I'm wondering is there that much benefit in looking at a UK one?

Reasonable price too, I'd say. Probably doesn't have the 6.6kW charger though?

sgalvin

Excellent risk based approach to buying a car!

As a rule of thumb each amp of charging current gets you 1km/hour of charge.

Granny lead 10amp, you get 10km for each hour of charge.

16 amp (3.3kw) 16km/hour of charge
32 amp (6.6kw) 32km/hour of charge.

Most of my charging is with a granny lead. My return to work is 60km and the car is plugged in there for 9 hours anyway so is full again each day.

If your house can support it, I suppose it makes sense to plan for a 32 amp but for 16 amp is more than enough for overnight charging anyway.

Get a double rainproof outdoor socket fitted and you could use a granny charger straight away.
Later this can be replaced with a 16 amp charger later if you want/need.

g0g wrote: »

So.....coming back to this thread!

A family member is selling their car and interested in mine, so I'm stepping up a notch in my interest and might take the plunge. Ultimately, worst case scenario it's the wrong choice, I've made the wrong decision and I switch back to something else in the future. I've talked to three friends who are owners and all are happy. I have a good idea on the limitations in terms of range and I'm happy that one would suit our needs.

Can someone clarify one thing for me. I know I'll need to install a charge point at home to do this properly, but will the car also charge from normal mains socket? Something called a granny plug? If so, is that painfully slow?

A friend recommended this crowd who can source UK models and will deliver to Holyhead, thus making my life a bit easier. We were in touch today and he reckons he could source a 2014 Tekna spec with 25-30K miles and 6.6 charger for around £ 10K. I was thinking then for € 12K I would pretty much have one in the country possibly even with charge point.

Then I got re-looking on carzone and came across the likes of this one and I'm wondering is there that much benefit in looking at a UK one?

g0g

KCross wrote: »

If you buy a 6.6kW UK car you are likely, but not certain, to get 2 cables.... the type 2 cable and the granny cable but you need to confirm.
The type 2 cable charges at 16A (3kW) or 32A (6kW) depending on the car and the charge point.
The granny cable has a standard domestic 3 pin plug on it and charges at 10A (2kW). So you can do the math from that as to how long it will take to charge the car bearing in mind the car has 21kWh's usable.
For a top spec Tekna he's not far off on his price. If you watch out for deals you will do better but you have to weigh that against the bother of going over relative to someone handing you the keys. Personal decision really.
Reasonable price too, I'd say. Probably doesn't have the 6.6kW charger though?

I've been assured of the granny cable if I buy from that seller but didn't ask about the other one. So based on these replies that means I'd have all I need.

sgalvin wrote: »

Excellent risk based approach to buying a car!
As a rule of thumb each amp of charging current gets you 1km/hour of charge.
Granny lead 10amp, you get 10km for each hour of charge.
16 amp (3.3kw) 16km/hour of charge
32 amp (6.6kw) 32km/hour of charge.
Most of my charging is with a granny lead. My return to work is 60km and the car is plugged in there for 9 hours anyway so is full again each day.
If your house can support it, I suppose it makes sense to plan for a 32 amp but for 16 amp is more than enough for overnight charging anyway.
Get a double rainproof outdoor socket fitted and you could use a granny charger straight away.
Later this can be replaced with a 16 amp charger later if you want/need.

Thanks, this really helps too. As it happens, I already have a double-socket (waterproof) just around the side of the house and could put the nose of the car within maybe 4-5m of it. I'll assume the cable is long enough?

Is it this simple? Is there anything major I've missed then? Did I see mention of a solar panel to charge the smaller battery? Is that only on certain/newer models? Is Tekna spec identical to SVE spec? (I know in the past usually with other cars they throw in more extras on UK models)

sgalvin

The Nissan/Renault granny leads seem to be 6 meters long, the aftermarket are 5 meters.

Don't complicate things, plug it in when you're not using it and it will be ready to go.

The solar planel is a visual box ticking excercise.

g0g wrote: »

I've been assured of the granny cable if I buy from that seller but didn't ask about the other one. So based on these replies that means I'd have all I need.


Thanks, this really helps too. As it happens, I already have a double-socket (waterproof) just around the side of the house and could put the nose of the car within maybe 4-5m of it. I'll assume the cable is long enough?

Is it this simple? Is there anything major I've missed then? Did I see mention of a solar panel to charge the smaller battery? Is that only on certain/newer models? Is Tekna spec identical to SVE spec? (I know in the past usually with other cars they throw in more extras on UK models)

goz83

SVE is Irish speak for Tekna.

The solar panel adds extra feel good factor

cros13

goz83 wrote: »

SVE is Irish speak for Tekna.

The solar panel adds extra feel good factor

And takes away more range due to it's weight than the power it produces.

g0g wrote: »

I've been assured of the granny cable if I buy from that seller but didn't ask about the other one. So based on these replies that means I'd have all I need.

One thing to note is that along with being at least 40% slower than charging at 3.3kW and three times slower than 6.6kW, charging is slightly less efficient via the granny cable, so on average mileage it's going to cost you €10 to €20 more per annum to charge via it. Also the granny cable itself is not rated for long term outdoor use.

I'd say go ahead and use it for a few weeks to get started but ideally plan on getting a proper chargepoint at some point.

When it comes to your purchase, it's worth noting that the granny cable is certainly a nice to have and is at least two to four times the price of a Type 2 cable. So given the choice, take the granny cable and buy a Type 2 yourself.

goz83

cros13 wrote: »

And takes away more range due to it's weight than the power it produces.

Sort of like a good old bag of chips. Adds weight but damn they are good to eat.

Can ya tell i'm hungry?

g0g

The hunt continues.....

A couple of UK options fell through but still watching out. Also looking at some Irish options.

If I don't get a granny cable where is the cheapest place to grab one until I got a charge point?

I saw on the charge point thread some deals - is there anything good value at present suitable for 6.6kW charging?

KCross

g0g wrote: »

The hunt continues.....

A couple of UK options fell through but still watching out. Also looking at some Irish options.

Monitor this forum:

https://speakev.com/forums/EV-Classifieds/

A car in your price range came and went yesterday! The Tekna's and the 6.6kW's move fast.

https://speakev.com/threads/leaf-tekna-15-plate-24kw-6-6kw-11495-sonic-blue.64289/

g0g wrote: »

If I don't get a granny cable where is the cheapest place to grab one until I got a charge point?

I saw on the charge point thread some deals - is there anything good value at present suitable for 6.6kW charging?

I don't think you'll find any cheap granny cables. They are a ridiculous price new (€600+?, can't remember exactly)... so you won't find any cheap ones unless they are cheap knockoffs... not sure I'd trust them.

Spurious cable example here(£250):
http://www.evcables.co.uk/89/Portable-Charger-Type-1

ELM327

the guy that people reccomended here, electricautos in kildare generally sell granny cables around 350.
Don't know if they are genuines or not though

Soarer

g0g wrote: »

If I don't get a granny cable where is the cheapest place to grab one until I got a charge point?

If you're around Cork, you could maybe borrow mine for a few weeks.