increasing the grazing platform options .

kerry cow

I have 100 acres grazing platform and rear all replacements on rented land .also get silage from rented land .
I would like to grow the herd but I am maxed out on the milking platform .
I could rent 50 acres next door but he want €250 ac and it need a complete resend job.
I could extend my platform to milk more cows by
cutting good bales instead on cheaper land rental

Zero graze cheaper ground

Cut cow numbers and rear all replacements and cut silage at home .

Not grow cow numbers and stay as I am .
If I go up 160 cows I will need a helper but I reduced to say 70 I would manage easily on my own.
I probably need a expert to do the figures but I just can afford everything right now as I am new on the road .

Sorry it all seems so jumbled but I really don't know what to do .am at a cross roads .

Timmaay

What's your current milking block SR? You mention two extremes there, expand to 160 cows or drop back to 70, why not stay in the middle somewhere? You'll prb need to jump to 160 or more like 180 to justify any sort of extra full time staff, but why not go for part time help during the spring, and aim to throw on just a few more cows, while still improving efficiency etc? No need to consider either extremes in my view, not medium term at least

GrasstoMilk

Timmaay wrote: »

What's your current milking block SR?

What's current farm sr

mahoney_j

kerry cow wrote: »

I have 100 acres grazing platform and rear all replacements on rented land .also get silage from rented land .
I would like to grow the herd but I am maxed out on the milking platform .
I could rent 50 acres next door but he want €250 ac and it need a complete resend job.
I could extend my platform to milk more cows by
cutting good bales instead on cheaper land rental

Zero graze cheaper ground

Cut cow numbers and rear all replacements and cut silage at home .

Not grow cow numbers and stay as I am .
If I go up 160 cows I will need a helper but I reduced to say 70 I would manage easily on my own.
I probably need a expert to do the figures but I just can afford everything right now as I am new on the road .

Sorry it all seems so jumbled but I really don't know what to do .am at a cross roads .

Sr on current milk block
Do u need to reseed it or spread lime p and k to increase grass grown which can result in a higher Sr
Current milk per cow and kgms produced per cow and per hectare on milk block
What are current facilities luke ,parlour ,cubicles ,calving pens ,calf sheds slurry storage i??
Over 120 cows you will need some form of labour ,help in spring ,is it there ???
Will u be any better off by milking more cows ,more cows won't nesecerally mean more money

kerry cow

I have a cow to acre as it's uphill land and am growing grass as well as the farm can grow .good p and k levels .it just the land is heavy when it rains.
I have enough parlour and cubicle for what I have .
Was also thinking of renting next door for my silage and replacements and dropping other land 2 miles away but the old land is at 180ac and fertile .

The part time boy

Do you have sheds and parlour capacity to milk 160 ?

yosemitesam1

Would you consider moving elsewhere. Sell the place and buy a bigger farm beside dawg with plenty of room for expansion...

K.G.

kerry cow wrote: »

I have 100 acres grazing platform and rear all replacements on rented land .also get silage from rented land .
I would like to grow the herd but I am maxed out on the milking platform .
I could rent 50 acres next door but he want €250 ac and it need a complete resend job.
I could extend my platform to milk more cows by
cutting good bales instead on cheaper land rental

Zero graze cheaper ground

Cut cow numbers and rear all replacements and cut silage at home .

Not grow cow numbers and stay as I am .
If I go up 160 cows I will need a helper but I reduced to say 70 I would manage easily on my own.
I probably need a expert to do the figures but I just can afford everything right now as I am new on the road .

Sorry it all seems so jumbled but I really don't know what to do .am at a cross roads .

Anything else you do will be more expensive than land nextdoor at 250e an acre

yewtree

250 acre isnt bad for land beside the parlour, to purchase the land if it made 7k acre would cost 33k in repayments versus 12500 in rent which is fully tax deductable.
its another question whether you want to take on the extra work

Water John

It would be important that the upgrading of the grazing land, next door, is factored in to the lease.
He takes a hit in the first 2 years. If its old grass and low index and ph, the lessor cannot expect top rent rates.
It is very convenient to you and he knows it. A bit of a chat, maybe with a third party present.

kowtow

K.G. wrote: »

Anything else you do will be more expensive than land nextdoor at 250e an acre

My thoughts exactly.

Leaving aside dropping numbers or staying put - surely grass down the road is no less likely to need cash, p&k, infrastructure etc. to make a return than grass next door?

If you can get a long lease of next door, then any investment needed will be easier to justify.

If you can't, then at 250 / acre it's still surely going to be cheaper to eat, bale, or draw next door until you find some outside ground you are comfortable investing in.

kerry cow

I suppose the grassland walk opened eyes to costs but the neighbours our Is he'll bend on 250 or he will run away the dry stock till someone pays up
A indifferent person he is .

If someone else takes it then I may never expand because I am surrounded by large dairy farm on one side who has a 16yr old going farming and forestry on the other 2 sides

jaymla627

kerry cow wrote: »

I suppose the grassland walk opened eyes to costs but the neighbours our Is he'll bend on 250 or he will run away the dry stock till someone pays up
A indifferent person he is .

If someone else takes it then I may never expand because I am surrounded by large dairy farm on one side who has a 16yr old going farming and forestry on the other 2 sides

120 acre milking platform here, and going to 160 cows with 115 at the minute, have 30 acres of rented ground on long term lease that I've reseeded with silage grass mixes and simply operating a 4 cut system on this ground and these bales are used to buffer the cows on the shoulders of the year our whenever grass gets short, should get around 550 bales of this block altogether and this effectively gives us 100 days feed for the milkers, if you can tie down your existed rented ground for a long lease reseed it and do something like the above I'd reckon you'd be better off especially on heavy ground having a big bank of feed like above will be a. Godsend

The part time boy

Kerry cow . I tried to send you a pm but systum says I can't .

It may have interest you so if you want send me a pm

Sam Kade

Platform = raised level surface on which people or things can stand. Them bloody Kiwi's.

pedigree 6

Sam Kade wrote: »

Platform = raised level surface on which people or things can stand. Them bloody Kiwi's.

Cows are standing on it grazing.:)

Riddle solved.:D

patsy_mccabe

People say they have a grazing platform, but when you ask them where the cows are, they'll tell you they are down in Murphy's Meadow.

The part time boy

The part time boy wrote: »

Kerry cow . I tried to send you a pm but systum says I can't .

It may have interest you so if you want send me a pm

Got your pm but can't pm you back due to your setting . If u want give me your email in next dm or change setting !

Farmer_3650

Nice farm available for Lease in Co Roscommon if any of ye are interested . About 700 acres in it. Be more than enough land to increase your grazing platform

Markcheese

If you can get the land on a long term lease and don't have to spend too much on it reseeding/liming fencing and roadways it might be the cheapest...
. . Anyway you can interest your neighbour in some sort of farm share deal? So in a brilliant year he also does well and in a ****e year you don't get reamed.. Might be able to get a bit of peak time labour into the deal...
. . . If you're boosting the cow numbers, could you look at ways to get contractors to take up more of the workload,
. . And would sheds, roads and parlour on your own place need serious Investment to handle the extra investment?

Who2

I thought you were milking 4-500 already or maybe i was mistaken.

kerry cow

No , used to work for years on another farm .took up the home Farm from beef earlier this year . Used to be old dairy farm .

I had 40 cows on other farm and took stock loan this year and sold the beef .problem is stock loan is short at 5 yrs.

Water John

Well, you outlined the three choices in you opening post. The land, while critical, is secondary to the first decision.
Model 1:Work on your own with 70/80 cows.
Model 2: Work with some spring help and have 100/120 cows.
Model 3: Go to 180 cows and have one full labour unit along with your self.

You already have leased land for silage and replacements, 2 miles away.

For the 2nd and 3rd model
The further base annual cost, besides capital needed for stock, buildings etc is, the wage to the part time/full time labour unit along with the lease of the neighbouring 50 acres for model 3.

Extra land €12,500

Part time labour X
Full time labour 5X

Would X be €6K? So labour diff is €24K

The decision is yours.
You can switch land leased for model 2, if you wish.
You certainly have the skills for whichever model you wish to take.

Who2

Would it be wise to work with things as they are for a bit and try and ensure it's worth expanding to 160 or more cows. Could you achieve 100 on your block as it stands and not worry about staff and extra headaches. 100 on your own and not be working for the banks

kerry cow

My first feeling would now be to take the land next to me and drop the rented land .it will.only be half productive in 2018 till I get it up to speed on it .
It will keep my young stock and silage in 2018 and in a years time I can see what to do with the surplus . It will hit my cash flow next year but looks like I will just have to suck it up .
I suppose you cannt turn down next door because I couldn't live with someone else there long term when I might need it .
Thanks for the feed back .
Better go and see will he now let it or has he changed his mind !.

Sam Kade

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Cows are standing on it grazing.:)

Riddle solved.:D

It isn't raised and rarely level and cows are not things

pedigree 6

Sam Kade wrote: »

It isn't raised and rarely level and cows are not things

I think it's the only term that can be used to describe the area around the milking parlour available for grazing by the milkers. Say grazing platform and there's no mistaking what the speaker is talking about. It's a bit late now to come up with a different term the cat is already out of the bag.

Water John

Older than you Ped. We called it the grazing 'block' in the 70s on any farm/Moorepark walk. Let the NZ boys accept our word.

kerry cow

What do ye think of zero grazing .was up in North kerry last week and met 3 of them ,while on the way to dairymaster . And saw another parked up near tralee .
I rather top class bales of silage in the yard ready when I want rather than repayments on machinery and maintenance .imagine having to head for a load of grass before or after milking .omg

Grueller

kerry cow wrote: »

What do ye think of zero grazing .was up in North kerry last week and met 3 of them ,while on the way to dairymaster . And saw another parked up near tralee .
I rather top class bales of silage in the yard ready when I want rather than repayments on machinery and maintenance .imagine having to head for a load of grass before or after milking .omg

Contractor near here has one going full time for four farmers. About 12 hours per day. Near here I mean about 15 to 20 miles away

Mooooo

kerry cow wrote: »

What do ye think of zero grazing .was up in North kerry last week and met 3 of them ,while on the way to dairymaster . And saw another parked up near tralee .
I rather top class bales of silage in the yard ready when I want rather than repayments on machinery and maintenance .imagine having to head for a load of grass before or after milking .omg

I'd rent the ground bounding first before zerograzing

Water John

Zero grazing is a handy option with a small grazing 'block' near the parlour. Cow walking to graze is the best option, unless going indoor feeding.

Markcheese

kerry cow wrote:

What do ye think of zero grazing .was up in North kerry last week and met 3 of them ,while on the way to dairymaster . And saw another parked up near tralee . I rather top class bales of silage in the yard ready when I want rather than repayments on machinery and maintenance .imagine having to head for a load of grass before or after milking .omg

I reckon a zero grazer on distant ground would make your neighbouring 250 an acre seem fierce cheap.. 😀 😀

Water John

I wouldn't denegrate ZG, as some have done in other threads. They have a place.
Esp with fragmented ground.
If one is around, also one can always bring in a load before a poor night, weather wise and the cows are nice and dry, next to the parlour, in the morning.

K.G.

Zero grazer very handy when your stuck but i wouldnt build one into a system.would prefer to raise concentrate levels to the max before id consider zero grazing as part of a system espcially on rented ground

kerry cow

Has there been Any teagasc experiment done with ZG or a cost per kg Dm ?
Anyone will to put a figure on it and would reader agree with the cost or disagree.
Say a rented ac 250, plus 250 for fertility and lime and 50 for up keep , 550 euro for say 6 ton of Dm. Almost 10c per kilo Dm.
If you ZG it would be the above plus harvest cost .
Maize silage is 18 cent a kilo Dm.
Meal is 25c plus per kilo.
Graze grass 5 to 6 cent
Bale silage would similar to maize cost 18 c a kilo

What does a contractor charges to ZG

K.G.

kerry cow wrote: »

Has there been Any teagasc experiment done with ZG or a cost per kg Dm ?
Anyone will to put a figure on it and would reader agree with the cost or disagree.
Say a rented ac 250, plus 250 for fertility and lime and 50 for up keep , 550 euro for say 6 ton of Dm. Almost 10c per kilo Dm.
If you ZG it would be the above plus harvest cost .
Maize silage is 18 cent a kilo Dm.
Meal is 25c plus per kilo.
Graze grass 5 to 6 cent
Bale silage would similar to maize cost 18 c a kilo

What does a contractor charges to ZG

My stab-7 cent a kilo dm

kerry cow

7 cent is grass grown on own land grazed ??

K.G.

kerry cow wrote: »

7 cent is grass grown on own land grazed ??

Contractor charge.based on 4tonplus maybe load at 20%dm at roughly 50e a load.around here the way it works is by the hour from leaving contractors yard or last yard he was at

jaymla627

K.G. wrote: »

My stab-7 cent a kilo dm

Fairly low estimate if you say 12000kgs dm/ha was utilized that means total costs per ha would be 840 euro, after a land charge of 600/ha you have 240 euro to cover all other sundries, fertilizer alone would come to 250-300/ha not even including spreading costs, so that's the budget used up.....
Once you take into account lime/a yearly spray for docks/fencing/water and roadway upkeep along with factoring in reseeding a certain % of the grazing block yearly your heading well north of 10 cent kg dm

K.G.

jaymla627 wrote: »

Fairly low estimate if you say 12000kgs dm/ha was utilized that means total costs per ha would be 840 euro, after a land charge of 600/ha you have 240 euro to cover all other sundries, fertilizer alone would come to 250-300/ha not even including spreading costs, so that's the budget used up.....
Once you take into account lime/a yearly spray for docks/fencing/water and roadway upkeep along with factoring in reseeding a certain % of the grazing block yearly your heading well north of 10 cent kg dm

Thats contractor only.if you allow for land rent youcould add 5cent kg dm so 20 cent total mighten be far away from it

cute geoge

K.G. wrote: »

Thats contractor only.if you allow for land rent youcould add 5cent kg dm so 20 cent total mighten be far away from it

So feeding good quality ration sourced for €230/ton would rival zg .

Henwin

kerry cow wrote: »

What do ye think of zero grazing .was up in North kerry last week and met 3 of them ,while on the way to dairymaster . And saw another parked up near tralee .
I rather top class bales of silage in the yard ready when I want rather than repayments on machinery and maintenance .imagine having to head for a load of grass before or after milking .omg

But there are a lot of advantages as well, fresh grass is better at driving yield than sillage bales, you can graze longer in the year, it reduces meal bills and increases milk. you dont have to make that many silage bales.
disadvantages are more diesel and fetiliser bills and more labour hours but i think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages,

mf240

cute geoge wrote: »

So feeding good quality ration sourced for €230/ton would rival zg .

I suppose the big advantage of meal is you only have to buy it if you need it.

Timmaay

Henwin wrote: »

But there are a lot of advantages as well, fresh grass is better at driving yield than sillage bales, you can graze longer in the year, it reduces meal bills and increases milk. you dont have to make that many silage bales.
disadvantages are more diesel and fetiliser bills and more labour hours but i think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages,

I'd disagree with a good few points of yours, high dmd leafy bales will actually increase intakes and drive on yields, leafy bales are a perfect Grassland management tool, cut when the growth is high and feed back when the growth is less than demand on the mp. A contractor can do most of the bales, no extra machinery needed, only extra job for the farmer is feeding them out. High dmd bales offer so much more flexibility in terms of weather than ZG, in the shoulders when it's wet all your going to be doing is drawing some grass and loads of water into the cows, if your drought prone your outfarm will be lacking grass also.

Keepgrowing

ZG grass is €50/load in this area with a contractor. A load would fully feed c70 for 24 hrs.

Meal will always be the best value as its 100% consistent

Bales will not affect yield or solids if proper hi quality silage.

Any system that builds meal or zg in are automatically high cost and won't be as resilient in lower price times.

Meal can only be fed to a certain level before you reach diminishing returns.

Land next door that cows can walk to at €250/acre will always win this argument. It's of course contingent on a long term lease that allows you time to get a return on your initial cap ex. 20 years would be what I'd be striving for.

Gross sales at 5500 litres €1800
Fert 220
Meal 120
Cubicle 100
Interest 20
Vet Ai 60
Land 250
Labour 200

These are rough figures so aprox €970 so aprox €900 left for yourself and the other costs I've left out

patsy_mccabe

Get a slash hook and knock a gap in next door.

blackdog1

Why don't you try and buffer feed? You could increase your cow numbers while getting more starch into them and increasing they're yield. On the rented ground I would offer him 200 and tell if he refuses tell him your sorry but that's all you can offer at the moment and you might be able to offer more in 2/3 years time as you've just started up.

mf240

If the land is going to be sold eventually and you have it rented and all improved up are you no kind of making it dear for yourself?

GrasstoMilk

mf240 wrote: »

If the land is going to be sold eventually and you have it rented and all improved up are you no kind of making it dear for yourself?

If it's locked in a lease you have first option of buying, do you not?

kerry cow

Well when lease expires it's normal practice to give the man leasing first option to buy but it will be one price offered by owner .
Take it or leave it .
I know a guy who had 2 farms leased next door to him .
He paid big money yearly to lease and put up with a lot of crap over the years but knew one day they would both sell which they did .he had stronger neighbours lining up but they never got a look in because he was offer it at a price and again he paid up .
In fairness he never treated them anything but good neighbours even after buying , when you'd think he feel like telling them his mind .
He jump all the jumps and hoops.
Good lad .