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Heavyweight Boxing

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Got a hold of a poor quality highlights video entertaining fight. Chisora has provided some really good moments in the last quarter of his career and this was a good last hurrah if he leaves it at that.

    I always liked Parker but I don’t see it happening for him. He doesn’t hit cleanly enough and can be awful lazy in the ring, opting to take hits rather than evade them. Not a great idea in HW especially. The body shots really took their toll. His condition still is just ok. I think the likes of Pulev would have given him an awful night even the shadow that fought Joshua. I think he’s a good opponent for the likes of Dubois or Joyce if he’s waiting around for a shot. The Whyte 2 fight might be there but I’d fancy Whyte in that. Yoka should be looking at him as a good name on the card. Plenty of good fights for him but I think he’s reached his own peak. He’s got high ratings but I can see him falling down the list there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,147 ✭✭✭ normanoffside


    I wasn't even scoring it myself after the first few rounds as I though it was obvious Parker was so far ahead and Chisora needed a knockout.

    I think the commentators just stopped counting the scores after 4 rounds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭ Lion Killer


    Should a commentator working the fight really be shouting "Come on, Del"? This is why Matchroom want to control all aspects of the broadcast so they can create their own reality



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,681 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Funny, I actually thought his punching and accuracy and delivery were better than ever. Clean! He's a tough man who has very decent punch mechanics when on form. It may sound crazy, but in this HW era he has a place to be a contender at least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Ok so I found a better quality highlights video. Excellent fight the desire from Chisora was brilliant. I have to climb back down (a little). Parker looks much improved and Andy Lee is emerging as a fine trainer. He was in better condition and was throwing mean shots from both left and right. Light years away from the version that robbed Hughie. Now, Chisora is ancient and never was great even if this last few years has been his best. Chisora hurt Parker several times I just think he fights way too open. He’s not a good finisher either and I’ve always thought he can be got at, especially to the body. He can take a shot though. It reminded me of the Whyte Chisora fights. I’d like to see that rematch and I think Parker might well beat Whyte if he would start well. That’s something Lee seems tohave instilled in him even if Chisora did knock him down in the first round last time. He started this fight very well. Like it was on the verge of being stopped more or less every round from 2-11. A contender, perhaps. I do find it difficult to see him regaining a world title. But at 29 he has plenty of time still and should kick on into some good fights. Who next?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ The man in red and black


    With regards who next it really is tricky to steer a career progression in HW these days. Like there are plenty of lads at the lower end of the top 20 that the likes of Parker could have a tick over fight against. The problem is the next level up is the likes of Whyte/Ruiz/Dubois/Joyce/Pulev/Povetkin/Ortiz +/- Hughie Fury etc before you get into the top table Fury/Wilder/Usyk +/- Joshua. Like if Parker seriously thinks he deserves to get back to the top tablet he should be trying to fight Wilder or Joshua (When Joshua loses rematch to Usyk). But you would have to think Parker belows with the lower tier guys in the first list. You couldn't say confidently he would beat those guys. The risk is if he starts losing to the likes of them he really can't progress any more and where does that leave him...former HW champion fighting journeymen?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Yea pal I agree with you on that. Where would you have Chisora? Middle of the top 20? So a good workout for a contender like Parker or Whyte. I can’t see Parker ever calling Fury out I don’t think he fancies that at all. I imagine he will tread water for another 2 fights and by then the landscape may have changed. I think he’d fancy a crack at Usyk and possibly even Joshua again - he’s bound to wonder how throwing back may have gone after Joshua’s losses.

    If he fights too many journeymen now then that’s exactly what he will be and remain. That’s a good win and he looks better than before so I think he should be looking to someone on his own type of level. I think he’d beat Dubois (at the moment), Pulev, Povetkin (easily) and Ortiz and they are all good names for him. If he’s improved then he should beat Hughie but he’s fought him before and Hughie is boring. There’s Yoka or Zhang who would be decent names for him but are likely to pad their own records another while. Hunter shouldn’t frighten him either. So lots of credible opponents that he should beat. Not much point in watching him tear apart Washington or Spilzka etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    I like Parker seems a sound bloke but is far to nice, he just doesn't have it in him to be a top guy,

    It must be so frustrating for his coaches there are many many things you can teach a fighter but the one thing you can not is WILL ,

    He just doesn't have the WILL to really bite down and get in the trenches and get the top guys out of there,

    It's funny because if Parker had Dell boys will & guts he'd be right up there,



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,528 ✭✭✭✭ Cyrus


    Andy lee did a good interview on second captains (subscriber section) pre the fight, in fairness to Andy he is always very candid and comes across as a thoroughly decent lad.

    He said parker can take breaks mentally and physically in fights and thats what he is trying to work out of him.

    He also had visa issues getting to the US for Wilder Fury 3 and Jason Quigleys fight (which was tough on Quigley)



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    A few years back about 4 summers ago i was down in Galway with the missus on shop street & she grabbed a table outside & went in and got the drinks anyway when i came back out she was chatting to a couple on the next table & to my surprise it was Andy & Maud his missus ,He was really nice down to earth fella, it was only a few months after he retired



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,528 ✭✭✭✭ Cyrus


    just rewatched the Korobov fight, bring a tear to a glass eye, shame he didnt hang onto the belt longer, but you cant take the achievement away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    On Parker yea lot of tools but goes to sleep in every fight. Any time he takes a shot to the body he shows too much gum shield for me. Chisora really confused him heading for the corners.

    lee is very likeable yea. The Jackson fight is one of my favourites ever. Super finish and the hand up right after he felt the connection



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,681 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    I think Del should have not been allowed head for corners.

    He was clearly showing a reluctance to fight:engage. That is against the spirit of the sport. And I wouldn’t buy the argument of him defending.

    Had the ref waved it off I would have no issues. It reeked of quitting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ The man in red and black


    Chisora is such a difficult lad to place in terms of the top 20 isn't he? Like he wouldn't beat any of the top 5 and maybe top 10. On the other hand he would give any one of them a very hard nights work and not just be blasted out of there like Washington etc. I read an article, I think on BBC sport which was saying it was really a pity Chisora never got another title shot after Vitali. At first I thought that was crazy as he could never quite get to show he was world level. On the other hand lots of people like Washington got a shot at both Wilder and then Joshua and they were far less deserving of title shots than Chisora. I guess the issue is he just sat consistently in the top 20 without really challenging for top 5. Would you call him a gatekeeper to the top 5?

    I agree about Parker needing to fight someone higher up to keep climbing up. If you keep fighting lads your own level there is no hype about the quality of opponents improving and no reason for a title holder to accept a challenge.


    Could Hughie Fury end up a top dog in the division yet? To be fair to him he's very young to have fought who he has fought. They pretty much accepted any fight he got and never made an effort to protect his 0 just to build him up like a Sky hype train "Undefeated" etc. He came up short against a few very good lads but seems to continuously progress to be fair!



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,681 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    The day Hughie Fury becomes a top dog in any division is the day I resign from boxing!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Yup especially since he did it all three times. The ref did say to him to engage. His body language was a bit like Joshua against Ruiz. He wasn’t as out of it though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Good point yea. He’s well down the order yet troublesome against very high level. He was 10 years too late really putting it in which is a pity. When he got the European title shot Pulev beat him in 2nd gear. So he never really got that big win to take him to title shots. I think you mihght mean Molina he fought both and Breazele. Two clowns in that company. He fought Whyte twice and lost both and the standout fights are Takam and Spilzka where he won (excuse all my spelling errors). He’s something of a gatekeeper but beating him isn’t anything that certain that a fighter is top top level either.

    Yea that’s the thing for Parker. Plenty of room for him if he wants it. Wouldn’t rule out him holding a belt again. But equally see him falling down the order either.

    Jaysus I doubt it on Hughie. He’s ok like and wiley and will cause lots of problems but he always looks like a poor man’s Tyson when Tyson wasn’t that good. Anyone high level has beaten him even if the Parker one was a poor call IMO. I still fancy too many lads to beat him though



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ The man in red and black


    You are right my apologies, I thought Washington fought both Wilder and Joshua but it was Molina and Breazeale spot on. Just thinking about your comment that Chisora was 10 years too late really putting in the effort. It's a good point. To be fair after he lost to Klitschko he was given a fight against Haye, a former champion. If he was to seriously get another shot at a title then I guess he would have had to beat the likes of Haye to put himself back in the mix.

    As for Hughie, I was probably being a bit lose saying top dog but I meant could he end up top 5? Like he's so young that in 4-5 years time when Joshua, Fury, Wilder, Ortiz(Presumably as he'll be 55 years old :P ) Povetkin, Pulev, Whyte +/- Usyk are all probably retired. Hughie will be the most experienced around by then. Not saying he's great but things could open up for him a bit there and he will only be in his early 30's. Maybe by then Canelo will have reached HW though? :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Haha great post!! Yea there was nothing wrong with the losses to Fury or Vitalai. The Haye fight he was pretty dreadful. Heavy and cumbersome following Haye around. Haye was very talented though and the speed killed. He was still on his game at that point. I think the Pulev fight really held him up. Pulev breezed him. It was SD but I remember watching it and I didn’t think Chisora deserved a round. There’s a SD against Helenius as well I don’t remember that fight so if you add the 2 Whyte fights that were very close had he come out on the right side of those it’s a very different conversation. To qualify that he could well have ended up KO’d by Takam too. For his ability which I feel is very limited he has been in some great fights against stars. Had he beaten Pulev he likely would have had a shot at Joshua as well. And he’d have no fear there. If he went after it who knows he has good heart.

    On Hughie you’re spot on yea. Those boys will have moved on and he will or should still be there. It’s hard to see that in those 5 years no one will overtake him though. Top 5 though as you say is realistic and that could mean some big title fights too. But, his best win might well be Hammar? Am I forgetting someone? I guess it should be Parker but it isn’t. He had a chance to fihght Whyte and passed it up which may have been sensible at the time. He’s won his last couple of fights so he would need to kick on I think. Would he beat Dubois, Yoka, this Anderson fella? One thing about him he’s very slippery but he doesn’’t have power to burn to scare the best lads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭ Rjd2



    Like the prospect of a Ruiz v Fury fight and it could do good business. I don't think I'd cross the road to watch him fight Helenius sadly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,351 ✭✭✭ Littlehorny


    Thought Ruiz vs Wilder was in negotiations?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Ruiz Fury is one worth the watch yea. Didn’t Ruiz have knee surgery? Maybe he’s recovered bow. Helenius I like but Fury would just eat him. Mismatch.

    I see Charles Martin is fighting Ortiz tomorrow. At least we’ll know after that. Watched Martin Washington last night again. Two donkeys lunging about, any decent counter puncher would have ironed either of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭ Sunny Disposition



    Think Fury would take Ruiz fairly comfortably, but he could trouble more or less any of the other top contenders on his day. Looked a lot fitter for his last fight, hope he builds on that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    got to love the wbc for ordering 80:20 split for fury whyte, delighted for hearn. Crap he pays fighters when they fighting aj, he was talking 55:45 at start of the month.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    Emm I dunno. Fury has struggled more with smaller opposition before so it would go to how well he’d keep Ruiz away. Think Fury on points though but a test if Ruiz could be trusted to be in shape (which would be an issue for both). I think it would be entertaining.

    A 20% split for Whyte is still an enormous amount of money for him AND he gets a shot at 3 belts. He should still be mad for that. Is he worth an awful lot more? A couple of decent wins and no better than that, never fought in USA, numerous drug issues. He’s not a global draw that attracts boxing and non-boxing fans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    I think fury is using his physical attributes better and hitting harder then ever so would deal with smaller opponents better nowadays. Whytes only hope is to keep going to the body, nobody really tries that against fury, we knw he has v good chin now so the body may be a better avenue for success.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,790 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    You make an interesting point lad. He is definately hitting harder and fighting more aggressively albeit using only 2 fights to really guage that against the same guy who he knew he had the beating of. Wilder began jabbing to the body (without real conviction) and it did have some effect on Fury. The plan I think was right but Wilder wasn’t able to execute it and use it well or often enough but he was outmatched in other more significant areas there.

    Whyte would certainly have to take the fight to Fury and a body assault could be helpful. But I’d say his face would take a pounding doing so. For him to win a second rate Fury needs to turn up and that’s something I have a haunch we will see in the next fight or two, especially if his opponent isn’t Joshua or Usyk. Fury has great spirit and recovery ability along with great mental strength/will to win, but as far as chins go he can be hurt and dropped and Ruiz or /Whuyte would both be capable of doing that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    Yeah reckon whyte would go all out early but would be stopped after 7. Reckon fury is looking at 3 more fights and off into the sunset so not sure if he will be complacent again. Yeah tbf most if not all heavyweights can be hurt but most do not recover like fury. Usyk beats joshua, aj will have to face wilder and if he lost those 2, he wont be getting a shot at fury. If somebody still says fury needs Joshua for his legacy if aj got bet in both of those - i give up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,681 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    I’d rather see Ruiz/Fury from a boxing/style sense than Fury/Whyte



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    `yeah fury/whyte will be a grappling match



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