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Heavyweight Boxing



  • Registered Users Posts: 47 reclose

    I’m not sure why you think Fury doesn’t need AJ if he loses to Usyk.

    AJ would still be the (arguably) third best heavyweight in the division. Anyone being considered a legend needs to be cleaning house.

    even if they do fight and AJ loses I still want AJ and Wilder fighting each other too.

    plenty of unanswered questions from all of them

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580

    How would aj be 3?, he would be 4 after usyk and wilder. If usyk beats aj again and fury beats usyk, why would he need aj, aj will be a busted flush if he loses again.

  • Registered Users Posts: 33,482 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye

    If AJ loses again then the fight doesn't matter. However it will be said he avoided him when he was a top boxer.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580

    Pretty obvious fury has ducked nobody, wasn't afraid to go to Germany with notorious judging and risk losing his 0, came back from 28stone to fight wilder what was it a year later. Anybody can see h has ducked nobody, that's what i don't like trying to suggest it now even. He was going fighting joshua, a us judge ptu stop to that, 1 thing that cant be levelled at fury is that he is a dodge merchant, just doesn't stack up.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    Interesting interview with John Fury on BT,

    Says Tyson had a four week camp & was unfit for the Wilder fight said the child was worse than anyone knew & flatlined , & also that Tyson has gone under the knife as he had elbow problems ,He says that is why he couldn't throw his jab without pain & its the reason he turned it into a war so he could get close,

    John was also saying he doesn't want to see Fury fight like that again as it will take years off him & also weaken his chin (which is right) & gave some stick to Sugar Hill saying Tyson doesn't need a trainer if the plan is to fight like that, Also said Sugar had him doing to many rounds sparring ,

    It's hard to gauge how annoyed he is with Sugar because he also says Tyson had no choice but to fight that way ,

    He has also he said he has told Fury to retire but that Tyson probably won't listen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    Id love to se AJ v Wilder but Aj & Hearn would never take that fight ,

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    Lets play match making

    I reckon we are going to see,

    AJ v Usyk

    Fury v Whyte

    Wilder v Ruiz

    Then hope we see

    Fury v Usyk

    AJ v Wilder

    Ruiz v Whyte

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭ selectamatic

    Took a much smaller pay day to fight wilder the first time instead of what he was offered to fight Joshua.

    So ya to me that says he ducked or at least was hesitant to fight (pre Ruiz) Joshua

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    How ?

    Fury fought Wilder first in December 2018 , The fight was announced seconds after he beat Paineta August 2018 ,

    AJ fought AVP in September & that fight was ordered in June as a mandatory , Then he was trying to fight Whyte in Wembley for 29 December 2018 but lowballed offered Whyte who refused the offer, Then in February agreed to fight Miller in June 2019 which turned into Ruiz

    So I'm not sure how Tyson ducked AJ ,

    Where in the time line was the fight suppose to be made ?

    Remember it was interview by Wilder that made Fury come back to begin with,

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,305 ✭✭✭✭ Cyrus

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭ selectamatic

    It was always the 50/50 pay demand before any comeback fight that stifled progress.

    From early 2018 this is what fury was demanding according to Hearn and this was never refuted by anyone in Furys camp. Even though he surely knew it was unrealistic coming off a 2 year layoff.

    In my view deliberately pricing himself out of what would have been a very dangerous fight at the time, in hindsight maybe not so much but at the time it was definitely dangerous. A 60/40 split for AJ would still have grossed more for Tyson than the Wilder 1 fight.

    But as I've said before on here fight 1 being a draw and the manner in which rd12 went down proved to be very lucrative from a cash dollar perspective.

    His career path to the wlad fight was very carefully plotted too. Nothing wrong with that at all but again it flies in the face of this fight any man any where mantra.

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,024 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    None them ducking each other and all ducking each's just the sh1tshow that is pro boxing

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    We all seen the video of Fury the day he decided to come back because of words from Wilder,

    The same day he rang Warren & told him i'm coming back & I'm fighting Wilder,

    Hearn heard of this come back & they offered him Bellew as one of his warm up fights , Fury said no as he had his pan of how he would get to the Wilder fight, Which after 2 years off an being nearly 30 stone was fair enough, Bellew said himself he would only fight Fury then & not when he was fit, Basically Hearn was willing to risk Bellew to stop the Fury come back dead in its tracks,

    Hearn was trying to make AJ v Wilder & they didn't agree terms & the Mandatory was called for AJ , so Fury jumped in there,

    On June 27, 2018 (only a week after he fought Sefri ) , Fury gave Wilder a message in an Instagram video saying, "I'll apologise on behalf of Eddie Hearn and Anthony Joshua because they're from the same country as I am, they won't fight you and they've took three months stringing you and the fans along with no intention of fighting, but I'll fight you in three seconds. Get your boss to send me the contract and I'll show you how long it takes to sign it! If you wanna fight the best this country has ever had knock on my door and see if the Gypsy King doesn't answer! The ball is in your court." Around this time, Fury and Wilder discussed a potential fight privately, and their two teams began talks for a fight to take place before the end of the year.

    As i already said early that month AJ had already been called to defend his mandatory against AVP ,

    So when was this AJ v Fury fight going to take place ? Hearn talking absolute bollox as usual it was never on the radar back then

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭ Brief_Lives

    Have you a link to that interview... I just went to youtube, theres loads to chose from, is it within the last 24 hours?

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭ selectamatic

    I'm sorry but saying that a fight between the man with 4 HW belts after that April 2017 night and the lineal champ who used to hold those 4 belts and who was rumoured to be making a comeback was never on the radar over the course of nearly a year of media back and forths and snipes on social media is almost as bizzare as your take on HW Usyk and HW Michael spinks being 2 completely different physical specimens.

    Of course it was on the cards it didn't happen but as walshb said such is modern pro boxing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,719 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    Well we’re working with a lot of ifs there but I still think to go down with legendary status he has work in front of him. He might very well fight Whyte next and then Chisora. If a fight isn’t made against Joshua then that one will be missing from his CV and it’s a bigger one than either of those two. Of course he can only beat what’s put in front of him and at the moment I’d fancy him to beat Joshua too. He needs still to win more fights to cement that legacy.

    How many people on here implied that their opinion holds more clout than Tyson or Lewis? But it is logical that they will big up the current lineal champion. Ex boxers are unlikely to talk about him having to do this or that to cement his legacy because it’s so public so even if they think it you won’t hear it. You, unless I’m mistaken, don’t have any access to their private thoughts or conversations and that’s where any criticism will be made.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    Of course it was talked about by the fighters & the media but as a future match up

    But as i said from when Fury came back till after Wilder 2 no dates or offers where on the table simply because the time line never matched up , I went through the time lines in my previous post there was never a date until the summer just gone that it would have possible ,

    And yes Walshb is correct that is modern boxing both men where tied up in contract & mandatory's

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,024 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Just on Mike Tyson...he's a fooking pot smoking weirdo....I'll absolutely value my views and opinions more than that clown!!!!

    The best of his era debate will be finalized when they retire. Right now Fury is in prime position.

    There are still possible fight secnearios and permutations that could change the whole landscape, and whether we get these fights is another thing

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    You might right but legends are decided by those in prominence in the boxing world not by anonymous users of the internet,

    But yes there a plenty of stories are to be still written on the current heavy weight crop all we can do right now is educated guess work,

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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,024 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Interesting to hear Roy Jones claim himself as greatest ever fighter, with Ali at 2

    Also, he thinks today's HWs would stand no chance vs the 1970s

    Not sure if the KOs he suffered has him a bit foggy.....but no way a fighter who has been knocked out that much can be the GOAT

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    I'm not so sure ,

    Roy in his prime was something else , wasn't his first Ko at 35 , Considering his fighting style aging was always going to catch up with him quickly ,

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,719 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    Those are my points about taking prominent boxers’ opinions with a pinch of salt.

    Unreliable for lots of reasons. When Tyson was asked if he’d beat Ali his answer was for an audience. He’d have been thinking very differently privately and would have tried to take his head off in the ring at that time.

    Lewis or Tyson would look good after Fury beat Wilder if they said he’s rubbish. What do you expect only what they did say?

    Prime Roy was amazing. GOAT is a big claim and it’s for others likely to say.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    Id love to see if any of the boxers form the 70's kept track of any of there training logs , that's if they ever even logged them ,

    Be very interesting to see physically how they match up with todays lads ,like what times where they running, sprinting , What numbers & set they where hitting in the gym and so on

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,024 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Outside of Fury, today doesn't bode well for the current crop in some eras for me.....

    Usyk has yet to prove himself proper and at 34 now I can't see him showing too much....I'd back many HWs to do a number on Usyk.

    Bet many to do a number on AJ and Wilder

    Wouldn't bet near as many to do a number on Fury

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,024 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Yes, he had a weak away with it when he had the reflexes, but when they slowed, he was a vulnerable fighter

    He was clean knocked out several times...

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    I reckon it was in the gym where Roy lost his chin,

    He really depending on his reflex's not to take shots but if you are sparring him surely after a while you'll read him and catch him with shots ,

    Like most fighters its the gym where you become shot not on the big stage

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,024 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Gym uses headgear and 16 oz gloves likely....big difference here compared to 10 oz gloves and no headgear...

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    I know that but the sheer amount of rounds in the gym

    Look at the Allen video not to long ago sparring with Usyk he was hurt badly ,

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,719 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    Big difference there is that Allen has already been hit hard and often in fights. The Price fight took a lot out of him. Price was good that night and didn’t fight as frightened. Allen has been used as a sparing partner for the better fighters so he’d have taken some pops in sparring. Plus it’s the very hardest punchers too.

    It’s strange. Jones has been really ironed out his losing fights are nearly as entertaining a reel as the ones he won from that point of view.