Heavyweight Boxing

squinn2912

I agree with you but he looked quite thin then. I really hope he makes it into the ring now to see this through.
On the issue of mental health it’s a very real thing (I don’t think Walsheb is denying its existence) and I’m sure TF suffered from it. I think for a long, long time he masked it. Very jumpy in individual interviews.
As an aside I think it’s good that mental health is talked about. But I think far too often so in a negative way which is counterproductive

walshb

Absolutely not denying its existence..

Just saying that in a lot of instances it’s exaggerated and hammed up to cover up and justify and explain plain bad behavior...

Fury has been involved in a lot of controversy...

Been involved in illegality as well. “Criminal” stuff as regards the narcotics industry. I have no time for that sh1t, and make no apologies for it..some people don’t see an issue with cocaine and its use in society..

Seems some want to explain that away and justify it as “sure what else is the depressed man meant to do.” That to me is utter garbage....

Plenty people out there genuinely suffering and in need of compassion and help.

I happen to think that Fury and his camp hammed it up to try and explain the bad behavior.

If people disagree. No problem..

Alfred Borden

walshb wrote: »

Absolutely not denying its existence..

Just saying that in a lot of instances it’s exaggerated and hammed up to cover up and justify and explain plain bad behavior...

Fury has been involved in a lot of controversy...

Been involved in illegality as well. “Criminal” stuff as regards the narcotics industry. I have no time for that sh1t, and make no apologies for it..some people don’t see an issue with cocaine and its use in society..

Seems some want to explain that away and justify it as “sure what else is the depressed man meant to do.” That to me is utter garbage....

Plenty people out there genuinely suffering and in need of compassion and help.

I happen to think that Fury and his camp hammed it up to try and explain the bad behavior.

If people disagree. No problem..

Same goes for Joshua so?

Ultimate Seduction

Alfred Borden wrote: »

Same goes for Joshua so?

Hatton was found of the white stuff aswell, 100s of boxers involved in other criminality too.

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

Absolutely not denying its existence..

Just saying that in a lot of instances it’s exaggerated and hammed up to cover up and justify and explain plain bad behavior...

Fury has been involved in a lot of controversy...

Been involved in illegality as well. “Criminal” stuff as regards the narcotics industry. I have no time for that sh1t, and make no apologies for it..some people don’t see an issue with cocaine and its use in society..

Seems some want to explain that away and justify it as “sure what else is the depressed man meant to do.” That to me is utter garbage....

Plenty people out there genuinely suffering and in need of compassion and help.

I happen to think that Fury and his camp hammed it up to try and explain the bad behavior.

If people disagree. No problem..

I don’t agree with you but there’s nothing wrong with that viewpoint for me

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Absolutely not denying its existence..

Just saying that in a lot of instances it’s exaggerated and hammed up to cover up and justify and explain plain bad behavior...

Fury has been involved in a lot of controversy...

Been involved in illegality as well. “Criminal” stuff as regards the narcotics industry. I have no time for that sh1t, and make no apologies for it..some people don’t see an issue with cocaine and its use in society..

Seems some want to explain that away and justify it as “sure what else is the depressed man meant to do.” That to me is utter garbage....

Plenty people out there genuinely suffering and in need of compassion and help.

I happen to think that Fury and his camp hammed it up to try and explain the bad behavior.

If people disagree. No problem..

But threatening to kill your female manager while brandishing a loaded gun and testing positive twice for the use of illegal drugs are perfectly acceptable if your name is James Toney?

walshb

Why are others being brought into the debate?

Toney/AJ and anyone else....same rules and views apply to anyone...

This wee discussion concerns Fury and his issues.

If Toney did x, y and z and people tried to explain it away as him suffering with a bit of depression or any other mental health illness I’d make my own view on it. I would not just accept it as fact..

walshb

Btw,

In case of any confusion. Toney is for me the best fighter ever.

As a human and person I have no like or dislike. I don’t know the man.

megadodge

Been involved in illegality as well. “Criminal” stuff as regards the narcotics industry. I have no time for that sh1t, and make no apologies for it..some people don’t see an issue with cocaine and its use in society..

You're not shy about mentioning this when Fury is being discussed, yet I have never EVER heard you criticise James Toney for his "illegality" or "criminal stuff".

That's hypocrisy!

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Btw,

In case of any confusion. Toney is for me the best fighter ever.

As a human and person I have no like or dislike. I don’t know the man.

That's serious delusion there!


But then again you predicted an ancient waaaaaay past it Toney would beat Randy Couture in their MMA bout, so we're used to it.

walshb

Start a discussion about Toney and his outside ring behaviors and I’ll please you..

Mantis Toboggan

"a bit of depression"

Jaysus there's some ****e in this thread. Don't feed the troll.

Ultimate Seduction

walshb wrote: »

Start a discussion about Toney and his outside ring behaviors and I’ll please you..

Your fine with discussing Fury's out of ring antics but not a fighter you like?

walshb

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Your fine with discussing Fury's out of ring antics but not a fighter you like?

What?

I just said (in reply to a post) start a discussion about Toney’s out of ring antics and I’ll give my view...”I’ll please you.”

You sure you reading right? You quoted me “saying” this, no?

walshb

Alfred Borden wrote: »

Same goes for Joshua so?

Same what?

AJ was involved in criminality? Reading his bio it would appear so.

Did AJ put this down to an issue with his mental health?

Just wondering what you mean by “Same goes for Joshua so.”

squinn2912

I’m going to stick up here. Walsheb and I usually argue on all things boxing with an odd bit of overlap sneaking in. To be fair he always condemns anything he doesn’t like and any controversial calls, ones which which I often disagree, are always backed up by logic. Guy calls it as he sees it which is fair enough

Johner

Fury's opponent is confirmed as Sefer Seferi - a cruiserweight.

normanoffside

Fury's June 9th opponent is Albanian Cruiserweight Sefer Seferi....
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/392701

Seferi has known this for ages as he announced it himself months ago.

The Nal

Lost his only ever heavyweight fight.

squinn2912

Not as soft a touch as I was expecting tbh

selectamatic

squinn2912 wrote: »

Not as soft a touch as I was expecting tbh

As regards pro record maybe but at 5ft 10" and nearly 40 it's pretty much what I was expecting.

squinn2912

Aye that’s fair enough. I’ll give him this one. I’m just glad to see an opponent named it means he’s active again. Division is better with him in it

walshb

selectamatic wrote: »

As regards pro record maybe but at 5ft 10" and nearly 40 it's pretty much what I was expecting.

It’s a joke of a soft touch...10 inches shorter and a CW..

But, all it takes is one clean heavy shot. No better time to land it on a man who has been on the doss the past 3 years or so..

squinn2912

Predictable type and fury has said as much. It’s a workout for him.

walshb

This is an early prediction, but I think Fury may be on the con here with this comeback. I don’t think he really feels he’d beat AJ and Wilder..

Expect 3/4 nothing fights and then he goes off on another bender...?

It’s a comeback being promoted as him reigning supreme. Not just any old comeback...

squinn2912

David Haye has scarred you for life!! You could well be onto something though. There are some similarities with Haye’s behaviour too.

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

David Haye has scarred you for life!! You could well be onto something though. There are some similarities with Haye’s behaviour too.

I was going to mention Haye..

Just a hunch here....anyway, won’t know for 8-10 months assuming he wins fights...

squinn2912

Yep. Part of it will definitely have the same trajectory. One thing in his favour is he’s younger and physically not shot. Won’t count for much if mentally he is (due to illness or simply attitude).

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yep. Part of it will definitely have the same trajectory. One thing in his favour is he’s younger and physically not shot. Won’t count for much if mentally he is (due to illness or simply attitude).

Well, physically he did himself no favors the past 3 years...

All we really know at this stage is that he lost weight...

I don’t expect him to be physically the same fighter he was a few years ago. Shot? That’s just a word...

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yep. Part of it will definitely have the same trajectory. One thing in his favour is he’s younger and physically not shot. Won’t count for much if mentally he is (due to illness or simply attitude).

Well, physically he did himself no favors the past 3 years...

All we really know at this stage is that he lost weight...

I don’t expect him to be physically the same fighter he was a few years ago. Shot? That’s just a word...

No he hasn’t but he didn’t have a number of retirements and false dawns like haye due to injuries.

Yes, like every word, it’s a word. Are you asking what I mean by shot? Finished, not up to it anymore.

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

No he hasn’t but he didn’t have a number of retirements and false dawns like haye due to injuries.

Yes, like every word, it’s a word. Are you asking what I mean by shot? Finished, not up to it anymore.

By shot I was meaning levels...

Some would think shot is past one’s best. How far past is the question. Levels of “shot.”

Will folks be saying that Fury is shot should he look (June 9 and near future) clearly not the same fighter from 2014 and 2015...?

Might still be capable, just not at his best...is that shot or heading to being shot...?

If I see a Fury looking clearly less the fighter from a few years ago I would call it shot..

squinn2912

Ah yes I remember this point from before. I don’t know if there are levels of shot. I think when you’re shot it isn’t coming back. Fury could have his timing off and look poorer much like a fighter working too hard to make weight in lower divisions or who had a disrupted camp or personal problems can be ‘off’ for a night. It doesn’t mean they’re shot. In fury’s case I think we need to give it at least 2 fights and then decide

walshb

I will definitely give him a couple fights before deciding on what I think as regards where he is at..

nacho libre

So he won't fight Bellew because he is afraid of the damage he'd do to him, but has no problem taking on a cruiser who is 4 inches shorter than Bellew and almost 40. Joke of a comeback opponent. A quick win here won't tell us anything. If the rest of his proposed fights are the same level of opposition, the Haye comparisons are valid.

squinn2912

Yea that’s fair. For me he gets two ‘free’ fights at crap level. It’s difficult for him though because then he’s expected to take on the belt holders

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

I will definitely give him a couple fights before deciding on what I think as regards where he is at..

I can tell you where you think he's at in two fights time now if you like ?

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

pac_man wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder do you post sh1te for attention seeking.

I don't buy it. Not with Fury, and there are many many out there who will uses the mental illness angle to try and explain their behavior..

Is there some code I have to agree with here, that I must not query these things.....just accept and believe it all?

Instead of posting a hostile one line reply maybe debate and argue it, otherwise jog fooking on.

I think people just think you looking for attention as its bene long documented that he has had mental problems,
As many have pointed out even when he was world champion its been mentioned it,
Watch the gloves are off type interview in the build up to the Wlad rematch that never took place, He clearly has mental issues,

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think people just think you looking for attention as its bene long documented that he has had mental problems,
As many have pointed out even when he was world champion its been mentioned it,
Watch the gloves are off type interview in the build up to the Wlad rematch that never took place, He clearly has mental issues,

I don't give a fook if it's been documented...

I simply said I don't buy it with Fury.....that's all.

Nothing to do with seeking attention.....you disagree, fair enough. I wouldn't fall out with you over it

But to call someone attention seeking or a sh1te talker because they disagree on ONE thing with you is a sign of a pr1ck to me.

But why exactly do you not buy it ?
Why would his whole family speak about it ? why when he was on top of the world would he speak about it ?
It seem you have no rational thoughts as to why he'd pretend ,

yourdeadwright

I don't get why anyone is surprised by the opponent, It's obvious he was going to fight a dud for his firast fight and possibly his second there just work outs for him ,
In my opinion he is doing it the right way, he needs to get some ring time ,at, sparring never tells the full tail, you need a live fight to really tell where you are at,
Sure look at AJ his first 14 pro fights where against similar opponents that had zero chance of beating him ,
Tyson has been out 2 years he needs 2 gimmie fights and then work back up ,
I don't think he is done like Haye  (most of that is wear and tear)  but there is a worry the comeback won't last because of his mental problems, How long can he hold it all together is the big question, You need to get him in big fights soon enough to keep him focused but also make sure you let him get the rounds in , so its tuff balancing job ,

yourdeadwright

nacho libre wrote: »

So he won't fight Bellew because he is afraid of the damage he'd do to him, but has no problem taking on a cruiser who is 4 inches shorter than Bellew and almost 40. Joke of a comeback opponent. A quick win here won't tell us anything. If the rest of his proposed fights are the same level of opposition,  the Haye comparisons are valid.

Bellew has said he will only fight him in one of his first two comeback fights, As he knows that he can catch him cold, He said he won't fight him after that
Tyson is not stupid he knows he needs time , And Bellew knows he only has a chance when Tyson isn't on form, Neither will give the other what they want,
Bellew have made a killing off perfectly timed fights for Tony, like the Haye ones,

Subcomandante Marcos

He'll probably fight Briggs in September if the June night fight finished Early doors.

At least Briggs is a proper heavy weight and can box a bit, even if he is older than Newgrange.

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I don't get why anyone is surprised by the opponent, It's obvious he was going to fight a dud for his firast fight and possibly his second there just work outs for him ,
In my opinion he is doing it the right way, he needs to get some ring time ,at, sparring never tells the full tail, you need a live fight to really tell where you are at,
Sure look at AJ his first 14 pro fights where against similar opponents that had zero chance of beating him ,
Tyson has been out 2 years he needs 2 gimmie fights and then work back up ,
I don't think he is done like Haye  (most of that is wear and tear)  but there is a worry the comeback won't last because of his mental problems, How long can he hold it all together is the big question, You need to get him in big fights soon enough to keep him focused but also make sure you let him get the rounds in , so its tuff balancing job ,

That's exactly it. He has said as much himself. His first 2 (minimum) fights will be against doormen. It's taking the next step that will tell us more, presuming he gets through these guys. After 2.5 years in the wilderness surely we have to give him until 2019 to get going again.
Yep I could see Briggs being the next fight. That would represent a step up for sure. Notice how Haye let the talk of that fight die away though - I don't think he fancied it at all. He thought he could frighten Bellew and look how that turned out for him.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I don't get why anyone is surprised by the opponent, It's obvious he was going to fight a dud for his firast fight and possibly his second there just work outs for him ,
In my opinion he is doing it the right way, he needs to get some ring time ,at, sparring never tells the full tail, you need a live fight to really tell where you are at,
Sure look at AJ his first 14 pro fights where against similar opponents that had zero chance of beating him ,
Tyson has been out 2 years he needs 2 gimmie fights and then work back up ,
I don't think he is done like Haye  (most of that is wear and tear)  but there is a worry the comeback won't last because of his mental problems, How long can he hold it all together is the big question, You need to get him in big fights soon enough to keep him focused but also make sure you let him get the rounds in , so its tuff balancing job ,

That's exactly it. He has said as much himself. His first 2 (minimum) fights will be against doormen. It's taking the next step that will tell us more, presuming he gets through these guys. After 2.5 years in the wilderness surely we have to give him until 2019 to get going again.
Yep I could see Briggs being the next fight. That would represent a step up for sure. Notice how Haye let the talk of that fight die away though - I don't think he fancied it at all. He thought he could frighten Bellew and look how that turned out for him.

I agree with you ,
Haye was done a long time ago, If you re-watch the fight in round 4 or 55 one of the sky commentators mentioned that Hayes was in Germany with the specialist midweek, No one replied and it was never mentioned again ,They all knew he was finished and said nothing to sell the fight,
Also pre fight they cut to his dressing room and he was doing ground ladders for footwork and he was going slower than my nan,
Paulie Malignaggi from round one kept mentioning how Haye was leaning onto his front foot while moving around the ring, something a novice would know not to do (obviously doing it due to injury ), and again the rest of the sky team ignored this,
The fight was a total con job ,.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I don't get why anyone is surprised by the opponent, It's obvious he was going to fight a dud for his firast fight and possibly his second there just work outs for him ,
In my opinion he is doing it the right way, he needs to get some ring time ,at, sparring never tells the full tail, you need a live fight to really tell where you are at,
Sure look at AJ his first 14 pro fights where against similar opponents that had zero chance of beating him ,
Tyson has been out 2 years he needs 2 gimmie fights and then work back up ,
I don't think he is done like Haye  (most of that is wear and tear)  but there is a worry the comeback won't last because of his mental problems, How long can he hold it all together is the big question, You need to get him in big fights soon enough to keep him focused but also make sure you let him get the rounds in , so its tuff balancing job ,

That's exactly it. He has said as much himself. His first 2 (minimum) fights will be against doormen. It's taking the next step that will tell us more, presuming he gets through these guys. After 2.5 years in the wilderness surely we have to give him until 2019 to get going again.
Yep I could see Briggs being the next fight. That would represent a step up for sure. Notice how Haye let the talk of that fight die away though - I don't think he fancied it at all. He thought he could frighten Bellew and look how that turned out for him.

I agree with you ,
Haye was done a long time ago, If you re-watch the fight in round 4 or 55 one of the sky commentators mentioned that Hayes was in Germany with the specialist midweek, No one replied and it was never mentioned again ,They all knew he was finished and said nothing to sell the fight,
Also pre fight they cut to his dressing room and he was doing ground ladders for footwork and he was going slower than my nan,
Paulie Malignaggi from round one kept mentioning how Haye was leaning onto his front foot while moving around the ring, something a novice would know not to do (obviously doing it due to injury ), and again the rest of the sky team ignored this,
The fight was a total con job ,.

walshb

I don't think folks are surprised that Fury's return opponent is d1rt. Just commenting on it being so, that's all.

His comeback needs to be looked at in more detail. He has been, the past 2-3 years spouting off how he is the real champ and how he beats everyone handily.

I think he was mouthing off about how he beats them all with little to no preparation.....yes, I know, all bluster......but then he comes out with this opponent. Just worth a bit of banter and discussion, that's all.

The Nal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I agree with you ,
Haye was done a long time ago, If you re-watch the fight in round 4 or 55 one of the sky commentators mentioned that Hayes was in Germany with the specialist midweek, No one replied and it was never mentioned again ,They all knew he was finished and said nothing to sell the fight,
Also pre fight they cut to his dressing room and he was doing ground ladders for footwork and he was going slower than my nan,
Paulie Malignaggi from round one kept mentioning how Haye was leaning onto his front foot while moving around the ring, something a novice would know not to do (obviously doing it due to injury ), and again the rest of the sky team ignored this,
The fight was a total con job ,.

Bellew knew Haye was injured aswell. Had his sparring partners pretending to have an injured achilles.

Total con. Glad I streamed it for free.

squinn2912

It was. And that's why it's accurate to say that there's a difference with Fury. The comparisons will be valid if the outcome is the same. Other than that it's both have come back after a period out with some question marks over the motivation. It turns out that Haye was never really in a position to come back so he fought two cans and then one money spinner that he got two paydays out of. Bellew is past his best as well but he took the money spinner too and now has probably one more move to make. He's done very well out of it. The whole series of episodes have given Haye the bit of exposure to launch the promotional name so it's served its purpose. He can move on. For Fury if he is actually motivated to reclaim his titles and can stay that way then physically it's different for him. If it's all thunder then AJ will have an easy night's work in front of him after Fury has opened 2-3 cans and both will get something of a payday. What my hope is that Fury has the grit back and fights two cans, then moves up in class to someone who is a realistic threat before taking on a belt holder. That may not be the smartest thing to do from a business point of view, but if he truly believes he can win back the titles then I think that's the best option.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

It was. And that's why it's accurate to say that there's a difference with Fury. The comparisons will be valid if the outcome is the same. Other than that it's both have come back after a period out with some question marks over the motivation. It turns out that Haye was never really in a position to come back so he fought two cans and then one money spinner that he got two paydays out of. Bellew is past his best as well but he took the money spinner too and now has probably one more move to make. He's done very well out of it. The whole series of episodes have given Haye the bit of exposure to launch the promotional name so it's served its purpose. He can move on. For Fury if he is actually motivated to reclaim his titles and can stay that way then physically it's different for him. If it's all thunder then AJ will have an easy night's work in front of him after Fury has opened 2-3 cans and both will get something of a payday. What my hope is that Fury has the grit back and fights two cans, then moves up in class to someone who is a realistic threat before taking on a belt holder. That may not be the smartest thing to do from a business point of view, but if he truly believes he can win back the titles then I think that's the best option.

To me Fury truly believes he can be champions again ,
He is not like Haye , its been clear for a while Hayes only motivation has been a quick cash in, That is something that has never really motivated Fury ,
IF the come back comes off or not is one thing but I think Fury is in it to be champion not to make a few quick bucks,

dougm1970

fury not making a hatton-esqe mistake with the opponent after this long out.

squinn2912

yourdeadwright wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

It was. And that's why it's accurate to say that there's a difference with Fury. The comparisons will be valid if the outcome is the same. Other than that it's both have come back after a period out with some question marks over the motivation. It turns out that Haye was never really in a position to come back so he fought two cans and then one money spinner that he got two paydays out of. Bellew is past his best as well but he took the money spinner too and now has probably one more move to make. He's done very well out of it. The whole series of episodes have given Haye the bit of exposure to launch the promotional name so it's served its purpose. He can move on. For Fury if he is actually motivated to reclaim his titles and can stay that way then physically it's different for him. If it's all thunder then AJ will have an easy night's work in front of him after Fury has opened 2-3 cans and both will get something of a payday. What my hope is that Fury has the grit back and fights two cans, then moves up in class to someone who is a realistic threat before taking on a belt holder. That may not be the smartest thing to do from a business point of view, but if he truly believes he can win back the titles then I think that's the best option.

To me Fury truly believes he can be champions again ,
He is not like Haye , its been clear for a while Hayes only motivation has been a quick cash in, That is something that has never really motivated Fury ,
IF the come back comes off or not is one thing but I think Fury is in it to be champion not to make a few quick bucks,

I really hope you're right about that. If he's serious then he'll be hard to stop and it makes for brilliant viewing.

The Nal

Eric Molina banned for two years for failing a drug test after the Joshua fight.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/44212756