Irish car tax system

aidanki

Heard a snippet on the radio during the week that our car tax system is going to be changing

Has anyone heard anything yet as to what is proposed

Yea they will change it allright,
it will go up to pre 08 rates and EV will go up .
Not a hope it will go down

Tow

They are losing a lot on the so called low emissions cars since the 08 changes, so I can only see it going up. What you gain on 'Water Refunds' will pay for the higher car tax, except the water refund is a once off.

nice_guy80

should just be put onto the price of fuel
the more you drive, the more you pay

grogi

nice_guy80 wrote: »

should just be put onto the price of fuel
the more you drive, the more you pay

There is a danger in that - three years down the line when budget needs money a new 'vehicle tax' will be added and the levy on fuel kept the same.


IMHO the vehicles should be taxed on the weight. The heavier, the more stress on the road it puts.

Nuw

nice_guy80 wrote: »

should just be put onto the price of fuel
the more you drive, the more you pay

Transport companies will also adjust their prices to reflect the cost of this, are we really prepared to pay more for everything? every single good you buy in ireland will be more expensive.

cruizer101

Tax on fuel is by far the fairest system, you want to drive a big engined thirsty car you'll pay more tax, you only drive it occasionally you won't end up paying too much, you drive a small car lots you pay a moderate amount.

It takes into account car size, efficiency and how much you drive so by far the fairest.

I do get your point about they might then a few years down the line add a rate back onto cars but whats to say they might not load on extra money on to the current rates anyway.

No matter what way you look at it tax on fuel is the fairest way, maybe combine with a flat rate on all cars say 100 quid.

You have to remember with tax its just a big bucket that has to be filled. In general tax changes just involve changing the distribution of how the bucket is filled (PAYE, VAT, Cigarettes and Alcohol, Various Motor Related taxes) so we should aim for it to be filled in a fair way and with regards to motors, that is tax on fuel.

colm_mcm

BrownFinger wrote: »

Yea they will change it allright,
it will go up to pre 08 rates and EV will go up .
Not a hope it will go down

Based on what info?

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Based on what info?

I cant reveal my sources :cool:

colm_mcm

Is it related to your username?

TallGlass

I didn't renew my insurance this year, motoring is costing a fortune and you get ripped off at every turn, I have just had enough of it at this stage. I have a Motorbike spare and majority of my transport is now done on a push bike.

The government strangling motorists for cash, it's unbelievable how they get away with it.

bear1

BrownFinger wrote: »

Yea they will change it allright,
it will go up to pre 08 rates and EV will go up .
Not a hope it will go down

colm_mcm wrote: »

Based on what info?

BrownFinger wrote: »

I cant reveal my sources :cool:

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is it related to your username?

BOOM OWNED!

ION08

grogi wrote: »

IMHO the vehicles should be taxed on the weight. The heavier, the more stress on the road it puts.

What has Stress on Road got do with anything?

bear1

ION08 wrote: »

What has Stress on Road got do with anything?

He means that the heavier the vehicle the more damage it can do to a road surface which would require main maintenance.

colm_mcm

If the tax money was ringfenced to be spent on the roads then fair enough, the majority goes on things like social welfare, health system, national debt etc.

Would a 1000kg car on 165 tyres do more damage to the road than a 1100kg car on 225 tyres?

ION08

bear1 wrote: »

He means that the heavier the vehicle the more damage it can do to a road surface which would require main maintenance.

Yes , I realise that. So my question remains, what has that got to do with anything?

This is motor tax we are taking about not "Road" tax.

Riskymove

colm_mcm wrote: »

the majority goes on things like social welfare, health system, national debt etc.

No it doesn't, in fact none of it goes on the items you mention - it goes into the Local Government Fund

So while it isn't all spent on roads, some of it is - as well as other local authority services

grogi

ION08 wrote: »

Yes , I realise that. So my question remains, what has that got to do with anything?

This is motor tax we are taking about not "Road" tax.

A lot actually. The weight of the car correlates with a lot of factors:

• as mentioned before - the damage to the roads. Motor-tax based on weight would encourage use of lighter vehicles, thus less money would need to be spent on road maintenance. Better roads with similar cost.
• by the laws of physics, the heavier car is less efficient than identical car, but lighter. Promotes efficiency.
• luxury vehicles are typically heavier. Cars are necessity, but luxury cars are just it - luxury. So this would work as progressive tax as well.
• similarly, more powerful engines weight more.

bear1

colm_mcm wrote: »

If the tax money was ringfenced to be spent on the roads then fair enough, the majority goes on things like social welfare, health system, national debt etc.

Would a 1000kg car on 165 tyres do more damage to the road than a 1100kg car on 225 tyres?

ION08 wrote: »

Yes , I realise that. So my question remains, what has that got to do with anything?

This is motor tax we are taking about not "Road" tax.

Just to be clear, this isn't my view point. I'm simply offering an explanation as to what the poster meant.

ION08

grogi wrote: »

A lot actually. The weight of the car correlates with a lot of factors:
- the damage to the roads. The money might not go directly to the roads, but currently it does not go to purify the air either. The tax would encourage use of lighter vehicles, thus less money would need to be spent on maintenance.

- the more luxury vehicles are typically heavier. Cars are necessity, but luxury cars are just it - luxury. So this would work as progressive tax as well.

- by the laws of physics, the heavier car is less efficient than identical car, but lighter. Promotes efficency.

Daft suggestion IMHO

The problem with your logic is that it does not factor in the time "heavier" cars actually spend on the Road.

Would a 1,000kg car which does 10,000 miles a year not put more "stress:" on the road than a 1,200kg car which does less than 5,000 miles a year?

Why should the heavier car be penalised on the basis that it theoretically "could" cause more stress to the road than a lighter vehicle when it reality it Could but it also Could not.

If tax is to be based on anything to do with the "road" it should be based on road usage.

R.O.R

Probably to do with the WLTP way of measuring Co2 that's on the way shortly (and already in place for newly released models) that is going to mean a jump in the Co2 figures of models already for sale, but doesn't effect vehicles already on the road.

Got a technical update on some models yesterday which mean at least a €3,320 price increase for anything built September onwards, as they fall under the WLTP testing regime. Now, that's only a 4% price increase, but Co2 jumps by between 18g - 32g / km.

grogi

ION08 wrote: »

Daft suggestion IMHO

The problem with your logic is that it does not factor in the time "heavier" cars actually spend on the Road.

Why put heavier in quotes?

Would a 1,000kg car which does 10,000 miles a year do more damage that a 1,200kg car which does less than 5,000 miles a year?

Why should the havier car pe panlised on the basis that it theoretically "could" cause more stress to the road than a lighter vehicle when it reality it Could but it also Could not.

Of course it does not. But not a single annual tax would. Don't forget the purpose of the tax is not to balance for road damage. It is to encourage certain behaviour.

What we want the people to do?

- drive more efficient cars
- don't drive diesels
- drive cars that stress the roads less, so less can be spent on them

And all would be promoted with weight based approach (diesels are typically heavier).

If tax is to be based on anything to do with the "road" it should be based on road usage.

That tax is part of the fuel levy. The more you drive, the more you pay.

bennyineire

Nuw wrote: »

Transport companies will also adjust their prices to reflect the cost of this, are we really prepared to pay more for everything? every single good you buy in ireland will be more expensive.

Nope they would get a tax rebate on fuel just like they do now

Sam Kade

bear1 wrote: »

He means that the heavier the vehicle the more damage it can do to a road surface which would require main maintenance.

He thinks it's a road tax.

grogi

Sam Kade wrote: »

He thinks it's a road tax.

What difference does the name made? Motor tax, raod tax, car tax, wheel tax - it is just a name.

However you call it, the tax is there to promote/discourage certain habits among motorist. Now it promotes diesels...

morritty

grogi wrote: »

What difference does the name made? Motor tax, raod tax, car tax, wheel tax - it is just a name.

However you call it, the tax is there to promote/discourage certain habits among motorist. Now it promotes diesels...

Exactly, its a tax applied to mechanically propelled vehicles to allow use on public roads. Who cares what you call it.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Dfmnoc

C word mentioned close thread

bear1

How about they stop penalizing people who want to drive something which isn't a piddly 1.0 tdi and actually make the tax regime fairer.
Absolute bull**** that the highest tax is over 2k a year.
And then further penalise you if you can't pay in one go.
Put a max amount of say 500 per year regardless of the car or something and exclude electric cars altogether.
Utter joke that an electric car is on a co2 rate...

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

morritty

bear1 wrote: »

How about they stop penalizing people who want to drive something which isn't a piddly 1.0 tdi and actually make the tax regime fairer.
Absolute bull**** that the highest tax is over 2k a year.
And then further penalise you if you can't pay in one go.
Put a max amount of say 500 per year regardless of the car or something and exclude electric cars altogether.
Utter joke that an electric car is on a co2 rate...

And piss off the chape tax diesel brigade? Can't see that every happening.

Fully agree with the electric car comment though.

Edit, read that wrong, thought it was a flat rate, whoops

grogi

bear1 wrote: »

How about they stop penalizing people who want to drive something which isn't a piddly 1.0 tdi and actually make the tax regime fairer.
Absolute bull**** that the highest tax is over 2k a year.

Do you need to drive a monster like that? Hell no. One can drive something modest and pay ten times less.

Do I want to drive a V8? Hell yes. But I want man different things I cannot afford.

bear1

grogi wrote: »

Do you need to drive a monster like that? Hell no. One can drive something modest and pay ten times less.

Do I want to drive a V8? Hell yes. But I want man different things I cannot afford.

One thing is a need to and another is a matter of want.
What if I want a 3.0 but the tax (leaving extortionate insurance aside) makes it impossible to afford and I'm forced into something I won't enjoy simply cause the government believes we shouldn't drive them?
I still maintain that if they introduced a fair system I.e. 500 max a year then you'd have a much more exotic choice of cars.
Keep the diesel at their 200e a year and if you fancy something special then 500e for the year.
They are also thinking of increasing the vrt so I mean they are deliberately making it hard to save money.

grogi

bear1 wrote: »

I still maintain that if they introduced a fair system I.e. 500 max a year then you'd have a much more exotic choice of cars.

And what good do exotic cars do to the society? They are nothing but toys.

Keep the diesel at their 200e a year and if you fancy something special then 500e for the year.

So you're not debating the progressiveness at all, but just talking how much

Henry Ford III

These threads crop up here and there.

Once you understand that:-

1/. Motor Tax isn't necessarily fair.
2/. It'll never be levied on fuel (too many jobs would be lost amongst other reasons).
3/. Those paying pre 08 rates will always moan about those who pay lower 08 and later rates, notwithstanding the later group have contributed way more in VAT and VRT on their newer vehicles.
4/. It's a big revenue ticket so the government won't ever allow the net take to reduce.

Things will make more sense.

p.s. We'd all love to drive more powerful cars with bigger engines, but sadly we can't afford them.

boardsuser1

It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

I currently pay €570 in tax, however if my motor had a manual gearbox instead of auto i'd be paying €280.

ION08

It's just pisses me off that instead of benefiting from the fact that we are a small island nation sitting on the edge of the Atlantic we get so shafted when it comes to motoring enjoyment. :mad:

Meanwhile in the US they get to barge around in bug F**k Off V8's and pretty much top spec Petrol version of every sh!te Daysul European car you see over here ... hell , even our Next Door neighbors in the UK seem to get a fairer cut of the motoring pie than we do.

The fact that we even have a €2,350/annum tax band is an absolute disgrace , let alone the fact that you get penalised for not paying it all upfront whilst not even providing Direct Debit facilities.

Joke of country when it comes to anything motoring related be it VRT, motor tax or our laughable insurance system.

grogi

ION08 wrote: »

It's just pisses me off that instead of benefiting from the fact that we are a small island nation sitting on the edge of the Atlantic we get so shafted when it comes to motoring enjoyment. :mad:

And how would you benefit from that? If it wasn't for low corporate tax rates, nobody would put a fence post here...

So we need to balance the income from somewhere else... Luxury items seem like an excellent idea.

Henry Ford III

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

I currently pay €570 in tax, however if my motor had a manual gearbox instead of auto i'd be paying €280.

If it was that important why did you buy the auto?

boardsuser1

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If it was that important why did you buy the auto?

It wasn't important as I wouldn't have bought it otherwise.

I couldn't get a manual version of it st the time unless it was a 1.6 diesel.

I got rid of a Focus with that nightmare of an engine.

If my current motor was 4 grams per kilometre less it would be in the lower band.

bear1

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If it was that important why did you buy the auto?

Licence only an automatic?

Edit: doesn't matter.

boardsuser1

bear1 wrote: »

Licence only an automatic?

Edit: doesn't matter.

My Mrs does to be fair.

BillyBobBS

nice_guy80 wrote: »

should just be put onto the price of fuel
the more you drive, the more you pay

That would be the sensible solution all round, that's why it hasn't a hope in hell of getting introduced.

BillyBobBS

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You get the government you deserve.

bear1

BillyBobBS wrote: »

That would be the sensible solution all round, that's why it hasn't a hope in hell of getting introduced.

As another poster mentioned, they could well do that but just imagine the next budget comes and they decide how about we increase our income and they lob on motor tax again.
So we'd be stuck with extra tax on fuel and then another tax for having the car.
This is what would happen in this country.

BoatMad

The Gov will begin the process of equalising diesel and petrol taxes

EVs will get some additional incentives , possibly zero motor tax and free tolls etc , plus BIK incentives for company EVs

the emphasis on C02 on the motor tax rates will be reduced , the goal is to balance diesel and petrol with petrol and petrol hybrids being the preferred goal now

grogi

bear1 wrote: »

So we'd be stuck with extra tax on fuel and then another tax for having the car.
This is what would happen in this country.

I think it already did once...

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

allthedoyles

For instance anyone driving a brand new Skoda Octavia 2.0TDI is only using 4.3L/100km  and they paying road tax of €200 per annum . This needs to change .
What I would like to see is an easy payment scheme replacing the current setup of 3 months minimum .

BoatMad

ION08 wrote: »

It's just pisses me off that instead of benefiting from the fact that we are a small island nation sitting on the edge of the Atlantic we get so shafted when it comes to motoring enjoyment. :mad:

Meanwhile in the US they get to barge around in bug F**k Off V8's and pretty much top spec Petrol version of every sh!te Daysul European car you see over here ... hell , even our Next Door neighbors in the UK seem to get a fairer cut of the motoring pie than we do.

The fact that we even have a €2,350/annum tax band is an absolute disgrace , let alone the fact that you get penalised for not paying it all upfront whilst not even providing Direct Debit facilities.

Joke of country when it comes to anything motoring related be it VRT, motor tax or our laughable insurance system.

You cant take one tax in isolation to any other
in the US there are HUGE property taxes , in the UK you have considerable council charges

Ireland taken as a whole tax system is not a high taxation country , thats borne out by the facts

BoatMad

allthedoyles wrote: »

For instance anyone driving a brand new Skoda Octavia 2.0TDI is only using 4.3L/100km  and they paying road tax of €200 per annum . This needs to change .
What I would like to see is an easy payment scheme replacing the current setup of 3 months minimum .

it is, the inherent bias towards diesels in the tax bands, will be phased out