Premium for an e60 diesel over petrol

bmwguy

I bought an e60 petrol a few months ago and apart from not being mad about the engine in it, its a lovely car and in great condition, it's a 523i m sport automatic 177 bhp I think it Is, as soon as I bought it my mileage increased massively due to work contracts I took on.
I have done 10k kms in 4 months which means I will be doing 30k kms a year and its set to increase, so i have to go diesel I think.

It's going through a tank a week or 90 quid. Driving is mainly motorway. I am VAT registered so I can claim VAT back on diesel (but not on petrol) plus it's more economical as we all know. It makes diesel under a euro a litre ex VAT compared to 130c + for petrol So I think I can half my fuel bills by going diesel.

For recently self employed reasons, I am not really interested in financing a new car as I haven't got much by way of accounts or tax returns done. Only 1 year. So I want to change like for like paying cash but not too much cash, just in diesel.

So like for like, depending on what I can get for the 523i, how much higher would you value a 530d? Sell private, buy private would be my preference.
I have one for a week at the moment from my cousin to try it out and it is both a better car and it's a lot more economical at just over 40mpg motorway compared to 30mpg in the petrol. Plus the VAT reclaim. So I'm pretty sold on changing. I am thinking 1500 euro?

bazz26

Post 2007 530d/535d still ask mad money. Pre 2008 ones not so much due to the motor tax difference. I think you will be doing very well to get out of a 523i and into a 530d for 1500 without compromising on something like condition and/or mileage.

bmwguy

Was thinking something like this below. It's actually an 07 LCI mine is an 06 pre LCI. I will NCT it before selling so it will have 15 months test on it.

Presuming this could be got for 5.5k or maybe even lower I could possibly change for 2k.

It's not really the cost it's wanting to move to a 530 really. But don't want a silly cost.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-530d-msport-lci-2007/15686241

wersal gummage

bmwguy wrote: »

mine is an 06 pre LCI.......Presuming this could be got for 5.5k or maybe even lower I could possibly change for 2k.

Sorry I've I've gotten this wrong, but you have expect to get 3.5k for an 06 523i?

I just sold a 05 523i. Brand new NCT, new water pump, I serviced it (including suspension bits) just before sale, new michelin pilot super sport tyres, refurbished alloy wheels, m sport car, full service history, relatively low mileage, in very good condition etc etc... I put it up for 2950 and honestly had every clown going contact me to waste time. No serious offers. Eventually shifted it for 2250. No idea if the 530d is priced well or not, but I'd suggest you will struggle to get 3500 for your car.

bmwguy

wersal gummage wrote: »

Sorry I've I've gotten this wrong, but you have expect to get 3.5k for an 06 523i?

I just sold a 05 523i. Brand new NCT, new water pump, I serviced it (including suspension bits) just before sale, new michelin pilot super sport tyres, refurbished alloy wheels, m sport car, full service history, relatively low mileage, in very good condition etc etc... I put it up for 2950 and honestly had every clown going contact me to waste time. No serious offers. Eventually shifted it for 2250. No idea if the 530d is priced well or not, but I'd suggest you will struggle to get 3500 for your car.

That's kind of what I am asking. If an 05 went for 2250 then i would imagine i could get 3k anyway for an 06. Its a sport model like yours. 175000 kms on it which is average enough.
If I can only get 3k for mine then what is an equivalent 530d going to go for? Would there be a 1500 Premium? 2000?

Is a 530d value in the market that much higher? Is there more demand for them? I don't actually care what I get for my own just don't want to get shafted on the other end. I know and understand the market for 520d is pretty high and they make more than any of the 6 cylinders once they age a bit

wersal gummage

It's definitely a buyers market. Can you afford to hold onto your own car and buy a 530d? That way you can wait and get the one you want. If you sell, you will probably feel compelled to buy whatever the best available example at the time is. Also if you do reasonably well on the purchase you will be more comfortable selling your own afterwards for whatever price.

bmwguy

wersal gummage wrote: »

It's definitely a buyers market. Can you afford to hold onto your own car and buy a 530d? That way you can wait and get the one you want. If you sell, you will probably feel compelled to buy whatever the best available example at the time is. Also if you do reasonably well on the purchase you will be more comfortable selling your own afterwards for whatever price.

I don't think I want to do that. I probably could but I did it with the e39 I had before the e60 and in the end let it go cheap as it was outside house uninsured and unused.
So I think I will sell first. There is an 06 530d on DD looks decent asking 4950, the 07 is asking 5950 and is an LCI . I think I would ask 3950 for my 06 523i with long NCT and see how it goes from there. I have a choice of family cars I could use in meantime anyway that aren't used much until I buy.

You'll save about €1600 all in at current fuel prices and at 30k kms a year going from 30mpg petrol to 40mpg diesel acceptting the VAT back thing.

Motor tax will go from €1080 to €1494 if paid yearly, so €400 quid of the €1600 saved eaten up my that.

Cost to change I imagine would be €3k and it seems like your 523i is minty, minty 530d are quite likely harder to come by.

You are right in saying the 530d is a better car though no doubt.


If doing mileage that can genuinely be classed as business mileage than you you might be better off going Ltd company than the sole trader and VAT back route.

grogi

bmwguy wrote: »

LPG it. BMW engines work with LPG very well.

bmwguy

grogi wrote: »

LPG it. BMW engines work with LPG very well.

That's a good call actually and worth exploring. Because the car is a good one and I did plan to keep for 2-3 years before my mileage needs exploded! I'll look it up this evening. Maybe the way I would be happy to keep it for a few years.

Idbatterim

I was going to say LPG could be a good option...

I would highly question the likes of a 530d on the old system, when you can get the likes of the below for 6k..

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/bmw/5-series/used-2008-bmw-5-series-520d-se-mo-dublin-fpa-185811278254208657

bazz26

bmwguy wrote: »

That's a good call actually and worth exploring. Because the car is a good one and I did plan to keep for 2-3 years before my mileage needs exploded! I'll look it up this evening. Maybe the way I would be happy to keep it for a few years.

It sounds like the better way to go. Your biggest challenge will be if there is a LPG filling station in your area or commute.

grogi

bazz26 wrote: »

It sounds like the better way to go. Your biggest challenge will be if there is a LPG filling station in your area or commute.

It's actually not that bad...

https://www.mylpg.eu/stations/ireland/#map

bmwguy

bazz26 wrote: »

It sounds like the better way to go. Your biggest challenge will be if there is a LPG filling station in your area or commute.

I live in Lucan. I believe there is one in Palmerston and Tallaght. Don't really have a commute to be honest all over the place. 230kms today alone and I stayed in Dublin, well went as far north as Drogheda and South to Leopardstown and a few things to do in between.

Might do the LPG. I read about it before and it's something I would be happy to do. Would be happy to keep it for 3 years then because it is a good example of the model.

grogi

bmwguy wrote: »

Might do the LPG. I read about it before and it's something I would be happy to do. Would be happy to keep it for 3 years then because it is a good example of the model.

There is one more thing to remember. The overall range of the car increases, but LPG range is rather short. A typical tank will get you around 300-400km.

While I am not a fan of sacrificing everything to drive only on LPG, to have a substantial saving you would need to visit the station almost every day. That's fine if you pass one close enough, but making a special trip every day is nightmare.

bmwguy

grogi wrote: »

There is one more thing to remember. The overall range of the car increases, but LPG range is rather short. A typical tank will get you around 300-400km.

While I am not a fan of sacrificing everything to drive only on LPG, to have a substantial saving you would need to visit the station almost every day. That's fine if you pass one close enough, but making a special trip every day is nightmare.

My mileage is going to be about 600kms a week so I won't have to be visiting more than twice a week. Plus I still have the petrol anyway I know it will be used at times. There are some pretty convenient ones to me. I calculate about a 40-50 euro a week saving. Worth doing.

grogi

bmwguy wrote: »

My mileage is going to be about 600kms a week so I won't have to be visiting more than twice a week. Plus I still have the petrol anyway I know it will be used at times. There are some pretty convenient ones to me. I calculate about a 40-50 euro a week saving. Worth doing.

If so, then absolutely. :ok:

bmwguy

grogi wrote: »

If so, then absolutely. :ok:

Just as another reason.
I did about 100kms today all within Dublin off motorways a lot of town driving. Was 21.2 mpg over the 100kms.

Although yesterday when I was on the open road a lot I thought to myself if I need a car with more power like I was thinking with the 530d and the answer is no.

The 523i is no rocket but it's big, smooth and comfortable and is effortless to drive most of the time. Its still a 2.5 straight 6.
Overtaking perhaps i could do with more power but I don't be at that very often at all to be honest.

bmwguy

grogi wrote: »

If so, then absolutely. :ok:

Just as another reason.
I did about 100kms today all within Dublin off motorways a lot of town driving. Was 21.2 mpg over the 100kms.

Although yesterday when I was on the open road a lot I thought to myself if I need a car with more power like I was thinking with the 530d and the answer is no.

The 523i is no rocket but it's big, smooth and comfortable and is effortless to drive most of the time. Its still a 2.5 straight 6.
Overtaking perhaps i could do with more power but I don't be at that very often at all to be honest.

Idbatterim

There is a thread,see below link on motor tax, the below post mentions something I could see happening from this budget... which potentially makes keeping your car even more attractive...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104152835&postcount=63

bmwguy

I got a quote today of 1450 inc VAT from LPGain over in Finglas. Talked to a taxi driver that had his 1.8 Avensis in for a service while I was there.

He couldn't speak highly enough of the conversion. LPG is currently at 67c per litre so more or less half price. He told me I might get 15% less mpg on LPG than petrol but I still work that out as the effective cost of having a 50mpg motorway car and a 35mpg city car.

The 1450 on top of my purchase price is still just under what I could have got a like for like 520d or 530d.

I think I will pull the trigger on it. Put 130 euro into it this week! That's well above average but reckon I will make back 40/50 euro most weeks giving me a payback of 6 months or so.
I pass the station twice a week in normal course of work too so that's OK.

Sexual Chocolate

Anything said about effecting performance power wise ?

bmwguy

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Anything said about effecting performance power wise ?

No he said it should be the exact same no difference positive or negative

grogi

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Anything said about effecting performance power wise ?

Similarly to premium fuel, LPG has higher octane number - even up to 120. When an ECU can take advantage of that and delay the ignition, it is capable of getting even more power than on petrol. Typically this can be observed by the torque curve going up in the low rpm areas, making the engine more enjoyable to use.

With LPG the power limitation comes with the efficiency of the injectors - how much gas can they deliver in one cycle at high rpm before next cycle begins. This highly depends on the gas pressure after the vaporiser. To lower pressure will result in lack of power, while to high will cause problems at idle. This should be properly set by the installer.

grogi

bmwguy wrote: »

I got a quote today of 1450 inc VAT from LPGain over in Finglas.

What ECU (Stag I assume, but which? Qmax Plus/Qmax Basic/300 Premium)?
What injectors (WC 02/03 or something else)?
Vaporizer (R02 TWIN ??)
Tank into the spare wheel well (Stako)? How big?

bmwguy

grogi wrote: »

What ECU (Stag I assume, but which? Qmax Plus/Qmax Basic/300 Premium)?
What injectors (WC 02/03 or something else)?
Vaporizer (R02 TWIN ??)
Tank into the spare wheel well (Stako)? How big?

Yes stag. Option of a 68 litre spare wheel well tank or an 80 litre tank up against back seats. Think I will go for the spare wheel tank as I only have a space saver anyway and get run flats all round as I need new tyres soon enough anyway.

I don't know the answer to rest of your questions sorry.

grogi

bmwguy wrote: »

Yes stag. Option of a 68 litre spare wheel well tank or an 80 litre tank up against back seats. Think I will go for the spare wheel tank as I only have a space saver anyway and get run flats all round as I need new tyres soon enough anyway.

I don't know the answer to rest of your questions sorry.

68l toroid is the way to go, it will hold ~55l of gas.

For the rest just ask them

bmwguy

grogi wrote: »

68l toroid is the way to go, it will hold ~55l of gas.

For the rest just ask them

Yes 55 litres was what i had in mind working off about 80%. 2 fills of this should do easily me a week. I will be in Finglas every Monday and also Thursday so looking ok.

110 litres @ 11l per 100km should give me 1000km on motorway costing 73.60 euro at current prices.

73.60 euro in petrol @ 9 l per 100km would give me about 55 litres and bring me 600 kms. So its a decent saving after it pays for itself.

And likewise for town driving I suppose.

Do you have any recommendations about systems? You seem to know a bit about it.
Would you recommend LPGain or any of the other installers? Is 1450 a good price?

And I might finally stop driving it like a granny if it's not costing me too much.

grogi

bmwguy wrote: »

Do you have any recommendations about systems? You seem to know a bit about it.

Stag (AC to be precise) is a well established manufacturer from Poland. They are in the business for two decades at least. BRC (Italians) or Prince (Dutch) might be better (but I honestly don't know where), but costs twice as much.

Don't go with Valtek injectors, regardless of their colour. Insist on AC injectors. Or Matrix - but those are again much more expensive.

Would you recommend LPGain or any of the other installers? Is 1450 a good price?

I have no idea about Irish prices and realities. In Poland the same installation would cost you half that - around €700.

When you pick the car up, test drive it thoroughly and don't let 'the installation needs some time to adapt itself' bull****. If you feel the difference - jitteriness, hesitation etc - they need to fix it. Don't handle rest of the money before you're happy.

And I might finally stop driving it like a granny if it's not costing me too much.

The empirical fact is that the installation works for itself much longer than one calculates. Simply because the car is driven much harder