Daughter wants to leave Irish school

wannabecraig

All,

My daughter moved from an Educate Together primary school to an Irish school when she went to secondary. We knew it'd be a challenge but as she's quite interested in learning languages we felt sending her to Irish school would be very helpful. She did struggle at first but with grinds and extra after school classes she got to the point where she was enjoying herself and feeling a lot better about being in there.

She's a pretty high achieving student and never dropped below top two in her class over the course of her primary but secondary is different! Anyway, her results came in and she got a few As, a bunch of Bs but a C in Science and a D in Irish. She cried for about a day over these results! I thought because she had done everything through a language she didn't speak a year before that this was pretty good but she feels that doing her exams through Irish will cause her to get poorer results that doing them through English! The feedback that I got from teachers is that her issue is she doesn't understand all the questions correctly, not that she doesn't know the answer.

I have no issue taking her out of Irish school if there is foundation for this, I was thinking of sending her to The Institute for the last two years anyway, but I think it might be worth her staying in Irish school for a few more year to nail Irish and Spanish (don't want to move her to a school where she has to learn French/German).

Anyway, I'm just looking for advice/information on how well kids in Irish schools doing in their Leaving Cert v English schools. I'd also be interested in a list of schools that do best in LC results so I can compare the schools near by that she'd like to switch to.

TIA.

calfmuscle

I went through Irish school and was dyslexic but didn't know it. I ended up requesting both the English and Irish papers for my junior and leaving certs. I always found it helpful. Plus just because your in an Irish school does not mean you have to answer in Irish. There is no rule about which language you answer in. Your daughter might find this reassuring to know.

riffmongous

More practice with the questions simply. Get copies of the questions from previous years and just work on understanding them

wannabecraig

I think the main issue is not that she can do the exams in Irish it's that she's learning through Irish and so won't be as good with the
terminology in English if she sits it in English.

afkasurfjunkie

I think the exams are difficult enough for students without throwing the language issue in too. If she wants to leave I'd let her. The Irish she has done already will stand to her.

riffmongous

Is she going into second year now? If she's getting mostly A's and B's in the other subjects and Irish is her weakest then it's Irish that needs the work and is taking her out of an Irish speaking school going to make it better or worse?

wannabecraig

Riff'

I think as she's in and Irish school she's probably being marked in a more strict manner in Irish.

wannabecraig

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

I think the exams are difficult enough for students without throwing the language issue in too. If she wants to leave I'd let her. The Irish she has done already will stand to her.

YEah, she's understands the grammar well, is willing to not throw it away and go to extra Irish lessons etc to make sure she can do honours Irish come leaving cert time.

mollygreene

I completed all of my education as Gaeilge and during state exams you are always given the paper as Gaeilge and a copy of the English version.

I always read the questions on both papers - it definitely helps to decipher *exactly* what is expected in the answer.

My assumption from reading your post is that your daughter is probably in 2nd year? With that, I'd at least give her to junior cert to see how she gets on.

We had many students in my school transfer from English medium schools, as late as even fifth year and over a period of time they nearly caught up to the same standard of every one else.

Like another poster mentioned, ensure she practices past papers and she should get the hang of it.

Also, if she is living her life bilingually, it will definitely make it much easier for her to grasp other languages, like French as you said. I also did French and found many of the grammar principles were quite similar to Irish!

Also, is she doing Irish at honours?
If so, the D isn't a massive red flag, imo, it just means she needs a bit more work.

By your post she seems like a bright girl, some extra attention at school (if teachers can facilitate) should hopefully do the trick)

Ãdh mór!

wannabecraig

Yeah, I'd really like her to stay there for at least another year, I think she'd catch up. Looking at the results of her current school
and the other one it's possible to go to, her's has only a 70% progression rate to 3rd level and a <50% progression rate to University level.
The other English school has a 95% progression to 3rd level and over 70% to University. So that has be leaning the direction of a move.

It looks like it means that kids in the other school generally do better and go on to Uni at a higher rate, which probably means
that there is a higher level of teaching standards there.

echo beach

wannabecraig wrote: »

It looks like it means that kids in the other school generally do better and go on to Uni at a higher rate, which probably means
that there is a higher level of teaching standards there.

That may be the case but it doesn't always follow. The progression to third level usually reflects the parents' expectations and is more a reflection of the social and economic status of an area than the standard of teaching in the school.
If your daughter wants to go to university and it sounds as if she has the ability to get there then she will be one of the 50%. This isn't the only factor you should look at in selecting the most suitable school for her.

byhookorbycrook

How do you know she was always in the "top 2?" in primary and how exactly was that measured? Are the standards in her new school higher , by any chance ?

wannabecraig

byhookorbycrook wrote:

How do you know she was always in the "top 2?" in primary and how exactly was that measured? Are the standards in her new school higher , by any chance ?

Yes, I imagine standards are higher, which I think I alluded to. Re' top two, can only go by what the teachers tell me, which was that she got best results in exams. Means little I'm sure.

byhookorbycrook

wannabecraig wrote: »

Yes, I imagine standards are higher, which I think I alluded to. Re' top two, can only go by what the teachers tell me, which was that she got best results in exams. Means little I'm sure.

I think this may have been part of her issue. The so called "exams" seem to have been very subjectively set by the teachers, in comparison to other peer groups. It is also not good for a teacher to rate a child in such a way and is at best unprofessional. No wonder she is feeling the pressure.

kandr10

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I think this may have been part of her issue. The so called "exams" seem to have been very subjectively set by the teachers, in comparison to other peer groups. It is also not good for a teacher to rate a child in such a way and is at best unprofessional. No wonder she is feeling the pressure.

Could it have been a centile ranking based on standardised tests?

byhookorbycrook

Not if she was in the "top two" of everything. Standard tests generally test English and Maths.

kandr10

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Not if she was in the "top two" of everything. Standard tests generally test English and Maths.

Two children could potentially have got the highest sten scores in the class, making them the top two, no? It's not always the case of course, but generally performance in standardised testing is a decent indication of ability? Obviously with certain exceptions, e.g. Child could perform poorly in maths but be a whizz in history.

byhookorbycrook

kandr10 wrote: »

Two children could potentially have got the highest sten scores in the class, making them the top two, no? It's not always the case of course, but generally performance in standardised testing is a decent indication of ability? Obviously with certain exceptions, e.g. Child could perform poorly in maths but be a whizz in history.

But is seems the child was supposedly top in all exams, which is why I am wondering as to the standard in the other areas.

wannabecraig

kandr10 wrote:

Could it have been a centile ranking based on standardised tests?

The results were in both general tests and the standardized ones, but that's not the focus here as I think it means very little for reasons mentioned in other posts. The real question is if makes sense for her to move. I'm not saying she's exceptionally smart or anything like that, she's just used to doing a lot better and I'm looking for some info on Irish versus English language school and leaving cert results.

byhookorbycrook

I would sit tight until after the Junior Cert. It's going to mean some hard work, but at least you both will have a better idea of how she is coping.