Alarm system - New or use Existing ?

RaulDublin

Hi All.

We are getting keys for our house in August and had a question around alarm systems as I've always live in apartments before where I havent paid for the system

Its an old house and it has an existing alarm system from what i understand .. I am thinking that the existing providers services may be discontinued by the current owners before moving out - is it better to contact the service provider and continue the service or have a new system in place ?

I see that phonewatch phone safety systems are around 41 euros a month for their system .. Looking online they seem to be one of the cheaper ones around ..

However they talk about phone based apps and wireless systems and I really dont want to have an app based system before even properly settling in..

Can the existing sensors in door and window openings not be reused ?
I also see that Seimens and HKG seem to be the preferred alarm systems any any PM's on recommendations on service providers with these systems will be very helpful

thanks , raul

KoolKid

PW are the cheapest at €41 per month?:eek:
You need to do some more shopping around. It really depends on whats already in place or what you are looking for?
You may be able to upgrade the panel etc and give you apps & remote control.
These start off with free options all the way up to 100s per year depending on features required and whether you might want monitoring & maintenance included.
See the sticky here for more information.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057394782

2011

Personally I would not go for a PhoneWatch alarm for a number of reasons, such as:

- High running costs
- I don't like the idea of a 3rd party having access to cameras installed in my home.
- Generally speaking these systems do not have perimeter protection meaning they have to be disarmed when I am home and they can only be set off when an intruder is in my home as opposed to attempting to gain entry.
- Generally they don't have working external bell boxes.

There is a never ending debate on this forum by various installers most of them are commercially aligned with HKC or Siemens so they will generally recommend on or the other. In my opinion you won't be disappointed with either. The differences in terms of security are minor. My preference would be for the HKC mainly because far more installers use HKC making shopping around much easier. Also HKC systems are hybrid (wireless and wired devices available). There are ways around this with Siremens as you will be told.

I would also go for the vastly cheaper self monitored option. This saves you the cost of paying a third party to ring you and tell you what an app can tell you far a fraction of the price. This is less lucrative for alarm installers but most / all offer this option.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

KoolKid

All new systems now are hybrid.The only wireless not available on Siemens Vanderbilt is wireless inertia shock sensors. As stated this can be done via 3rd party interfaces, however if wireless shocks are a requirement I would generally recommend GSD or Risco unless a particular feature of Siemens Vanderbilt is required.

kub

2011 wrote:

I would also go for the vastly cheaper self monitored option. This saves you the cost of paying a third party to ring you and tell you what an app can tell you far a fraction of the price. This is less lucrative for alarm installers but most / all offer this option.

Good luck getting a Garda response with that.
Wonderful as well to have your phone beep with an alert while you are in bed and some intruder has kicked in your back door.

2011

kub wrote: »

Good luck getting a Garda response with that.

As it happens I have had remarkable "luck" with getting a Garda response from self monitored alarm activations

If considering paying for monitoring by a third party I would recommend reading An Garda Síochána Policy on Monitored intruder alarms. It states:

No Alarm Installation Company or Monitoring Centre shall, in or on any of their stationery or advertising material, make any reference to An Garda Síochána or infer that Garda response will result from all alarm activations.

Wonderful as well to have your phone beep with an alert while you are in bed and some intruder has kicked in your back door.

Not really, but thankfully self monitored alarms can contact multiple key holders.

2011

KoolKid wrote: »

As stated this can be done via 3rd party interfaces

Agreed, as I said:

There are ways around this with Siremens as you will be told.

and it took just 7 minutes

For the record, I am not knocking the Siemens system, as per my last post:

In my opinion you won't be disappointed with either.

kub

2011 wrote: »

As it happens I have had remarkable "luck" with getting a Garda response from self monitored alarm activations

If considering paying for monitoring by a third party I would recommend reading An Garda Sh Policy on Monitored intruder alarms. It states:

No Alarm Installation Company or Monitoring Centre shall, in or on any of their stationery or advertising material, make any reference to An Garda Sh or infer that Garda response will result from all alarm activations.



Not really, but thankfully self monitored alarms can contact multiple key holders.

Banks, shops, cash holding centers are all wasting their money so getting their systems monitored.
They should take your advice.

You must have some incredible keyholders and believe me you were lucky to get a response.

Now please show me where i advertised Garda response.

2011

kub wrote: »

Banks, shops, cash holding centers are all wasting their money so getting their systems monitored.
They should take your advice.

I did not advise anyone on monitoring of "banks, shops, cash holding centers".

My advice was directed at the OP which is clearly for a domestic installation.

I am not commercially aligned with any alarm company or manufacturer, nor do I get a "kick back" from a monitoring station, so I have no axe to grind.
Can you say the same?

In the spirit of a DIY forum this is my advice to the OP based on my experience.
He/she can choose take or leave it, but it is unbiased.

KoolKid

2011 wrote: »

Agreed, as I said:
and it took just 7 minutes

For the record, I am not knocking the Siemens system, as per my last post:

Did not think you were.
Was just clarifying. Reading back your post it sounds like you are saying only HKC is Hybrid and Siemens Vanderbilt requires workaround for wireless instead of just wireless inertias.

kub

2011 wrote: »

I did not advise anyone on monitoring of "banks, shops, cash holding centers".

My advice was directed at the OP which is clearly for a domestic installation.

I am not commercially aligned with any alarm company or manufacturer, nor do I get a "kick back" from a monitoring station, so I have no axe to grind.
Can you say the same?

In the spirit of a DIY forum this is my advice to the OP based on my experience.
He/she can choose take or leave it, but it is unbiased.

Well excuse me so, as a professional on here I also give people advice. As a professional I recommend the best available things and to my mind self notification is a joke.
If you are happy with that, then good for you and continued luck with it.

Also i am sure you know where i am based and where the OP is based, I would therefore have a zero vested interest in whether or not the OP gets their system professionally monitored.

2011

kub wrote: »

Well excuse me so, as a professional on here I also give people advice. As a professional I recommend the best available things and to my mind self notification is a joke.
If you are happy with that, then good for you and continued luck with it.

Also i am sure you know where i am based and where the OP is based, I would therefore have a zero vested interest in whether or not the OP gets their system professionally monitored.

We have both given our opinion now.
Let's leave it at that, rather than derailing the thread.
Armed with the above information the OP can make up his / her own mind.

RaulDublin

2011 wrote: »

We have both given our opinion now.
Let's leave it at that, rather than derailing the thread.
Armed with the above information the OP can make up his / her own mind.

Thanks a ton guys. Trying to find out whats in place right now in the house..
I travel quite a bit so a self monitoring solution can be a tricky ☺

2011

RaulDublin wrote: »

Thanks a ton guys. Trying to find out whats in place right now in the house..
I travel quite a bit so a self monitoring solution can be a tricky ☺

If you are traveling you should nominate key holders that will be able to respond to an alarm activation regardless of what decision you make on self monitoring or monitoring station.
Either way you should have more than one key holder.


Remember: If you are away and the alarm activates the Gardai will not turn up unless a key holder has agreed to meet them there as they can't gain access.

kub

You are taking that Garda policy very literally.
They will, if a keyholder fails to turn up they will log it as a false alarm.
Get more than 6 of those in a 6 month period and they will withdraw their response.

fred funk }{

Us, installers, had a meeting with the Gardai CPO last year (coincidently in your locality 2011) and they recommended quite strongly that we try include monitoring with all the systems we install as they were of the opinion that a monitored alarm is far better than one that's self monitored.

kub

fred funk }{ wrote:

Us, installers, had a meeting with the Gardai CPO last year (coincidently in your locality 2011) and they recommended quite strongly that we try include monitoring with all the systems we install as they were of the opinion that a monitored alarm is far better than one that's self monitored.

What would we know Fred, sur we only do this stuff for a living.

2011

Some installers seem to be of the opinion that the sole purpose of the forum for them push their product, their services and generate business. In reality some answers / advice may not be the most profitable for alarm installers. Self monitoring being a prime example, hence the reaction I have received on this thread.

Rather than suggesting that alarm installers are best placed to recommend monitoring options how about full disclosure from the installers?

When recommending monitoring options is it true that...

1) ...installers get paid a kick back from the monitoring station for each customer that they get to sign up?

2) ...a monitoring contract requires a maintenance contract, which is another revenue stream for an alarm installer?

3) ...a self monitored alarm can contact multiple key holders at the same time and is considerably less lucrative for the alarm installer?


Security systems should be designed to be proportionate to the risk posed, I get that. However the installation and running costs also need to be affordable. So how can someone get the cost down?

That is part of what a DIY forum is about, understanding the different monitoring options, alarms systems and possibly installing and maintaining your own alarm. It is not about promoting your business, making money and recommending the most lucrative options.

[/RANT]

fred funk }{

2011 wrote: »

Some installers seem to be of the opinion that the sole purpose of the forum for them push their product, their services and generate business. In reality some answers / advice may not be the most profitable for alarm installers. Self monitoring being a prime example, hence the reaction I have received on this thread.

Rather than suggesting that alarm installers are best placed to recommend monitoring options how about full disclosure from the installers?

When recommending monitoring options is it true that...

1) ...installers get paid a kick back from the monitoring station for each customer that they get to sign up?

2) ...a monitoring contract requires a maintenance contract, which is another revenue stream for an alarm installer?

3) ...a self monitored alarm can contact multiple key holders at the same time and is considerably less lucrative for the alarm installer?


Security systems should be designed to be proportionate to the risk posed, I get that. However the installation and running costs also need to be affordable. So how can someone get the cost down?

That is part of what a DIY forum is about, understanding the different monitoring options, alarms systems and possibly installing and maintaining your own alarm. It is not about promoting your business, making money and recommending the most lucrative options.

[/RANT]

1. We are operating a business and need to be profitable to survive. We also make profit on everthing else we sell.

2. False. You can have monitoring without a contract.

3. Central station monitoring and self monitoring are two different products. Some people are happy to go for self monitoring and some will only go for central station monitoring. CSM is by far the more secure and safest service and costs money to supply that service.

I had a big reply to your first part of your post but I'm just not arsed to post it. It's full of nonsense and inflammatory bull, and frankly, very disappointing from you.

kub

2011 to be fair here, I actually think you are winding us up.

I had a long reply all lined up but you know what I just could not be bothered replying to such a post as that.

KoolKid

2011 wrote: »

Some installers seem to be of the opinion that the sole purpose of the forum for them push their product, their services and generate business. In reality some answers / advice may not be the most profitable for alarm installers. Self monitoring being a prime example, hence the reaction I have received on this thread.

Rather than suggesting that alarm installers are best placed to recommend monitoring options how about full disclosure from the installers?

When recommending monitoring options is it true that...

1) ...installers get paid a kick back from the monitoring station for each customer that they get to sign up?

2) ...a monitoring contract requires a maintenance contract, which is another revenue stream for an alarm installer?

3) ...a self monitored alarm can contact multiple key holders at the same time and is considerably less lucrative for the alarm installer?


Security systems should be designed to be proportionate to the risk posed, I get that. However the installation and running costs also need to be affordable. So how can someone get the cost down?

That is part of what a DIY forum is about, understanding the different monitoring options, alarms systems and possibly installing and maintaining your own alarm. It is not about promoting your business, making money and recommending the most lucrative options.

[/RANT]

As an installer I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
We have had cases where lads will refuse to install systems for people unless they sign up to some form of ongoing payments,whether that be for monitoring, apps or maintenance etc.
As always shop around is my advice.

kub

I advise people to shop around as well, but I do not agree with a lot of 2011's post.
Again I think it is a wind up.