Safety ladders for slurry pits /tanks

handlemaster

With so many horror stories regarding people falling into slurry pits /tanks have any of the readers installed a ladder in your tanks pits ? When you think of the loss of a life its incredible that farmers dont do this, it costs nothing in human terms.

J.O. Farmer

handlemaster wrote: »

With so many horror stories regarding people falling into slurry pits /tanks have any of the readers installed a ladder in your tanks pits ? When you think of the loss of a life its incredible that farmers dont do this, it costs nothing in human terms.

The problem is that people falling into slurry tanks have often been overcome with gasses and can't climb out even if a ladder was there.

It makes more sense to put in a proper agitation point where it is difficult to fall in.

handlemaster

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

The problem is that people falling into slurry tanks have often been overcome with gasses and can't climb out even if a ladder was there.

It makes more sense to put in a proper agitation point where it is difficult to fall in.

read just a week or two ago guy hung on to the shutter pins and called for help to get out. ladder would have helped. retro fit existing

Buford T. Justice XIX

handlemaster wrote: »

With so many horror stories regarding people falling into slurry pits /tanks have any of the readers installed a ladder in your tanks pits ? When you think of the loss of a life its incredible that farmers dont do this, it costs nothing in human terms.

As JO says, it's not drowning that kills people, it's the gas given off while agitating the slurry that kills people.

It is a heavy gas and accumulates near the ground and if there is a good wind there is no problem.

But on a calm day, the gas stays building up further from the ground and reaches dangerous levels very quickly. If you can't smell it, you should probably have left the area a while back!

handlemaster

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

As JO says, it's not drowning that kills people, it's the gas given off while agitating the slurry that kills people.

It is a heavy gas and accumulates near the ground and if there is a good wind there is no problem.

But on a calm day, the gas stays building up further from the ground and reaches dangerous levels very quickly. If you can smell it, you should probably have left the area a while back!

im refering to people falling into the tanks

J.O. Farmer

handlemaster wrote: »

im refering to people falling into the tanks

I think you missed the point. The reason they've fallen in is there no longer conscious and no longer able to use a ladder.

The guy you refer to sounds like the tank wasn't covered properly and like he wasn't at slurry.

Add to the mix the agitation causing a current even a conscious person could struggle to get to a ladder.

handlemaster

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I think you missed the point. The reason they've fallen in is there no longer conscious and no longer able to use a ladder.

The guy you refer to sounds like the tank wasn't covered properly and like he wasn't at slurry.

Add to the mix the agitation causing a current even a conscious person could struggle to get to a ladder.

I dont miss the point at all. Thats a different accident . People fall into these tanks and not always to do with fumes. Clare last month was another. I seen a report written in 2001 15 people had fallen into tanjs in the previous ten years 9 of which were kids.

Sam Kade

handlemaster wrote: »

read just a week or two ago guy hung on to the shutter pins and called for help to get out. ladder would have helped. retro fit existing

How did he manage to fall in? Prevention is better than cure.

mikeybrennan

Is there not an alarm you can get for the gas?

Would that be better than a ladder

Dunedin

handlemaster wrote: »

I dont miss the point at all. Thats a different accident . People fall into these tanks and not always to do with fumes. Clare last month was another. I seen a report written in 2001 15 people had fallen into tanjs in the previous ten years 9 of which were kids.

I think it's a fair point. I accept that when someone is overcome with fumes, no ladder will save them but in other cases, like for example, a farmer pulls up the lid to look into the tanks merely to see how much room is left before he needs to spread and accidentally falls in then the ladder would definitely be an option for them.

In this day and age of all the HSA (BS in some cases), that it is not on the agenda.

whelan2

mikeybrennan wrote: »

Is there not an alarm you can get for the gas?

Would that be better than a ladder

Apparently by the time the alarm goes off it can be too late

SuperTortoise

You'd also have cases where lads would fall in and another lad goes in after him via a ladder trying to save him.

J.O. Farmer

handlemaster wrote: »

I dont miss the point at all. Thats a different accident . People fall into these tanks and not always to do with fumes. Clare last month was another. I seen a report written in 2001 15 people had fallen into tanjs in the previous ten years 9 of which were kids.

Well instead of putting a ladder in as i suggested in my first post covering the tank properly with a proper agitation point will solve the problem.

Nobody should be walking around and accidentally fall in especially kids.

handlemaster

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Well instead of putting a ladder in as i suggested in my first post covering the tank properly with a proper agitation point will solve the problem.

Nobody should be walking around and accidentally fall in especially kids.

true. but I would rather see ladders installed in all cases and you can have the discussion with the first person after it saves their life what they think.

handlemaster

Sam Kade wrote: »

How did he manage to fall in? Prevention is better than cure.

doesit manner. the issue is how to stop a death after the fact.

the last guy i read about he left the cover open and walked it . he forgot about it.

J.O. Farmer

handlemaster wrote: »

true. but I would rather see ladders installed in all cases and you can have the discussion with the first person after it saves their life what they think.

Fair play for trying to come up with an idea anyway but I don't think anyone who could use the ladder should be able to accidentally fall in.

If they can fall in a ladder is a Corrective Action but a Preventative Action such as covering the tank is much better. On new tanks they should be covered properly day 1 and grants exist for retrofitting on older tanks.

On an old tank retrofitting a ladder would actually be dangerous as Buford said the gasses are heavy and sink to low levels such as in an empty tank. This is why people should never enter an empty tank.

Before you suggest proper breathing apparatus that's specialist equipment and going to make installing a ladder expensive as it won't be a DIY job.

Installing ladders on old tanks could kill more than it saves from people doing DIY jobs.

It will be more cost effective to cover the tank properly using a proper cover and will save more lives. With the proper cover even someone overcome with gases has less chance of falling in.

This in turn raises their chances of survival but more importantly the chances of someone trying to save them. A lot of people die trying to save someone who fell in.

J.O. Farmer

handlemaster wrote: »

doesit manner. the issue is how to stop a death after the fact.

the last guy i read about he left the cover open and walked it . he forgot about it.

That guy needs to look where he's going. It's hard to miss that it's open with the cover sticking in the air unless it wasn't a proper cover. Maybe he had slats he was lifting on and off.

Also why was it left open in the first place. It takes 5 seconds to close.

Mooooo

handlemaster wrote: »

true. but I would rather see ladders installed in all cases and you can have the discussion with the first person after it saves their life what they think.

The counter to that I believe is that for a ladder to work to get someone out there will also have to be an opening to come out from., which could allow kids etc go down. Also there have been cases of people going in to get others out who have been overcome with gas whom then have gone on to for themselves from the gas. Neighbour has a rope and buoyancy aid like at a beach outside his tank. Agree with others make it as hard as possible to fall in in the first place. Most open tanks have a ramp to drive down. And a fence all the way around.

handlemaster

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

That guy needs to look where he's going. It's hard to miss that it's open with the cover sticking in the air unless it wasn't a proper cover. Maybe he had slats he was lifting on and off.

Also why was it left open in the first place. It takes 5 seconds to close.

in that case we shouldnt have fire escapes. fires are easy to prevent in the same logic

oppenheimer1

Just to add two this, the standard deep sewer manhole no longer has a permanently fixed ladder on the side any more. This is to ensure a hoist is used during maintenance and that the operation has to be a two man one.

It also means that the second person can winch the first up and not risk going into the manhole and getting overcome with fumes too.

J.O. Farmer

handlemaster wrote: »

in that case we shouldnt have fire escapes. fires are easy to prevent in the same logic

Not really. You can't eliminate a fire risk in the same way. Closing the manhole eliminates the risk and is a reasonable step to take.

patsy_mccabe

Wouldn't a simple rope ladder tied to tyres be an ideal solution. Simply drop it into the tank and secure outside the tank.
Getting overcome with gases and simply falling in are not always related. Lots of people fall in and are not overcome with gases.
You need only use the ladder when you have the tank opened up dangerously.

pedigree 6

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Wouldn't a simple rope ladder tied to tyres be an ideal solution. Simply drop it into the tank and secure outside the tank.
Getting overcome with gases and simply falling in are not always related. Lots of people fall in and are not overcome with gases.
You need only use the ladder when you have the tank opened up dangerously.

I think the thing is though and it's been posted here before.

Would the ladder be an encouragement to get down in the tank?

I know when I was a young fella and I saw a ladder down in a tank. I'd be down it in a shot to see what it was like down in it.
I'd be killed from my curiosity so to speak.

Azatadine

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

If you can't smell it, you should probably have left the area a while back!

If you can't smell it anymore, that's your last chance. Leave immediately. Senses are already shutting down.

pedigree 6

Do people not use the grids underneath the manhole?

The whole purpose of them was to stop people from falling in.
I've the finger type cover and grid underneath and even when you have one finger and grid up for the slurry pipe to go in there's not a hope in hell of an adult falling in between that gap (a child under 5 maybe but not an adult).

I'm beginning to think there should be a lock on the grid underneath and whoever agitates the tank have the key or tool to open it.

Some farmers just need saving from themselves. It was even a big fight to get some people to use Pto covers.:rolleyes:

Then there's another factor too but maybe not talked about. Not every accident in a slurry tank is an accident. Some can be deliberate. Just the same as not every single occupant vehicle crash late at night is an accident either.

bogman_bass

The problem with a ladder is it would encourage lads to go down into the tank

The part time boy

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Would the ladder be an encouragement to get down in the tank?

I know when I was a young fella and I saw a ladder down in a tank. I'd be down it in a shot to see what it was like down in it.
I'd be killed from my curiosity so to speak.

This is the point I was going to make . You have gods**** Going into empty tanks taking out netting and plastic

Buford T. Justice XIX

Cortecs wrote: »

If you can't smell it anymore, that's your last chance. Leave immediately. Senses are already shutting down.

+1

Edited the quotes there, thanks for spotting that:)

patsy_mccabe

bogman_bass wrote: »

The problem with a ladder is it would encourage lads to go down into the tank

Well the slurry lagoons all have these type of rope/tyre ladders.

pedigree 6

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well the slurry lagoons all have these type of rope/tyre ladders.

Yea but there not concrete holes in the ground with gas up to the slats.

Think the lock the grids shut from the stupid eejit farmer is the best solution.

Waffletraktor

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well the slurry lagoons all have these type of rope/tyre ladders.

To me would the slurry not rot the tyres up quickly making them ineffective if were needed?

Sam Kade

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I think the thing is though and it's been posted here before.

Would the ladder be an encouragement to get down in the tank?

I know when I was a young fella and I saw a ladder down in a tank. I'd be down it in a shot to see what it was like down in it.
I'd be killed from my curiosity so to speak.

I know a young fella that did exactly that, he lived to tell the tale. That was back on the 80's when slatted tanks were a new concept back then it wasn't uncommon to put a ladder in the tank to sweep out the last drop of slurry. I was helping my neighbour at slurry around 1981 and the shed was completely enclosed and we lifted slats inside the shed for agitating, thinking back I haven't a clue how we escaped the gas as the danger wasn't highlighted back then. It was at the end of the year before the cattle went in unless the slurry wasn't as gassy after a year on the tank.

handlemaster

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I think the thing is though and it's been posted here before.

Would the ladder be an encouragement to get down in the tank?

I know when I was a young fella and I saw a ladder down in a tank. I'd be down it in a shot to see what it was like down in it.
I'd be killed from my curiosity so to speak.

Thats Darwins natural selection

pedigree 6

handlemaster wrote: »

Thats Darwins natural selection

Bit harsh.

As a child.
Did you never climb a tree, jump on a cow's back, start your father's car, climb on the roof of a shed, jump across a stream, wrestle a ram?

J.O. Farmer

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Bit harsh.

As a child.
Did you never climb a tree, jump on a cow's back, start your father's car, climb on the roof of a shed, jump across a stream, wrestle a ram?

Maybe you should've been kept away from livestock.

On the other hand sometimes natural selection does take place and those people are honoured with awards.

http://www.darwinawards.com/

pedigree 6

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Maybe you should've been kept away from livestock.

On the other hand sometimes natural selection does take place and those people are honoured with awards.

http://www.darwinawards.com/

I just took up horse riding instead!

Natural selection me h*le.

The op has come from a position of saying that there should be ladders in slurry pits to save anyone/adults stupid enough to fall into them while spreading slurry without using the supplied grids on the manhole.
To now saying that if a child climbs down a ladder into a slurry tank that's it's Darwin's natural selection and it's their own fault.
And you agree with him.:eek:

J.O. Farmer

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I just took up horse riding instead!

Natural selection me h*le.

The op has come from a position of saying that there should be ladders in slurry pits to save anyone stupid enough to fall into them while spreading slurry without using the supplied grids on the manhole.
To now saying that if a child climbs down a ladder into a slurry tank that's it's Darwin's natural selection and it's their own fault.
And you agree with him.:eek:

I probably should have put that better.

I wasn't agreeing about the child climbing down the ladder more that some people do incredibly stupid things that get themselves killed.

It's probably wrong to laugh but that website is very funny.

Obviously any parent who leaves a ladder in a position like that is incredibly stupid. Children don't know any better but I didn't mean children should die because of it.

Good to see you progressed from riding cows to horses.
As an adult I even have had to wrestle the occasional ram at shearing and the like.

Track9

Ladder is a good idea .
Accidents do happen & its been our job list. Was thinking of perhaps a Rope Ladder made from some type of synthetic that resistant to the acidic slurry .

patsy_mccabe

divillybit

Ladder is a bad idea for slatted tanks. As previous posters said it would be just inviting people to go into tanks. What really surprises me is that Bauer connections arent incorporated into the newer slat cover at the end of the tank with a 6" pvc pipe going from that down to almost the tank bottom. Far safer for extracting slurry from the tank that way if you can just pull the tanker up next the Bauer fitting. Slurry hoses are hard managed and usually are left half in half out of the tank when you're gone spreading a load. I have to enter confined spaces alot in my job, but not usually spaces that require breathing apparatus. Any space that requires breathing apparatus we just get contractors in for that specialist job. A confined space is simply a space that is hard to access or exit from. Thats its definition from a health and safety point of view. But if we're entering a confined space as we've to gave a floatation device, hard hat, lone worker unit and gas monitor in addition to our standard safety gear. You'll get suspended from the job if caught without it in a confined space. I once put the gas monitor on next our agitator when the brother had been mixing the tank for half an hour and it went crazy with the readings. If a gas monitor goes off at all when you're in a confined space you must exit the space. Alot of farmers dont appreciate the risks of the job. the statistics of deaths in the workplace just reflect this. Safety first lads. Never enter a slurry tank. You might be risking some one else's life if you get into difficulty