Great country to be a layabout in...

Pkiernan

Scrounger steals 100k and walks.

Why do we bother working at all?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/school-cleaner-who-stole-over-100k-in-social-welfare-fraud-avoids-jail-35927590.html

donegaLroad

Pkiernan wrote: »

Scrounger steals 100k and walks.

Why do we bother working at all?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/school-cleaner-who-stole-over-100k-in-social-welfare-fraud-avoids-jail-35927590.html

Very tough circumstances.. did you read the whole article?

Samaris

Out of curiosity, did you read the article, in which it's made clear she's working while taking care of children, two of whom have Huntington's?

I mean, what she did was wrong, absolutely, but your comment is just plain inaccurate. Given you only wrote two sentences, it was impressively inaccurate.

Poor Uncle Tom

Pkiernan wrote: »

Scrounger steals 100k and walks.

Why do we bother working at all?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/school-cleaner-who-stole-over-100k-in-social-welfare-fraud-avoids-jail-35927590.html

Great country to be a begrudger in.............

Brad Bobley

If it was a man I've no doubt a prison sentence would've been handed down.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

donegaLroad wrote: »

Very tough circumstances.. did you read the whole article?

yeah, she frauded the taxpayer out of 104k using someone else's name over 17 years to pay her 25 year old sons drug debt. Must have been some debt if he went on tick at 8 years old.

Joey Jo-Jo Junior

Brad Bobley wrote: »

If it was a man I've no doubt a prison sentence would've been handed down.

Really? Because I've seen people complain about a lot of lenient sentences handed down to men over the past few years too.

FFS. It only took five posts for a thread to turn into some bull**** about gender.

LexieOnRale

LexieOnRale wrote: »

yeah, she frauded the taxpayer out of 104k using someone else's name over 17 years to pay her 25 year old sons drug debt. Must have been some debt if he went on tick at 8 years old.

Could you quote the line where she said she was paying off her son's debt over 17 years?

It's not jumping out at me.

NickNickleby

LexieOnRale wrote: »

yeah, she frauded the taxpayer out of 104k using someone else's name over 17 years to pay her 25 year old sons drug debt. Must have been some debt if he went on tick at 8 years old.

Yeah, read this online before seeing the post about it. See someone above calling the OP a begrudger (indirectly). :pac:. Begrudging a thief the fruits of their labour....

My thoughts were:
Probably next to impossible to get the money back.
What sanction can be imposed? Obviously there won't be funds to pay a significant fine. Jail term would probably cause hardship to the family - and I have to assume the 'sentence' is based on knowledge of the family circumstances. Perhaps community work being imposed would go some way to addressing the 'retribution'.

The part that struck me most was the parting comments from the Judge, wishing the offender well. Sort off "go now, and never offend again". Not even a decade of the Rosary.

mishkashubaly

LexieOnRale wrote: »

yeah, she frauded the taxpayer out of 104k using someone else's name over 17 years to pay her 25 year old sons drug debt. Must have been some debt if he went on tick at 8 years old.

Try reading the rest of the article, not just selecting the bits that best suit your ill informed post. Huge mitigating circumstances that the judge obviously took into account.

Roger Hassenforder

LexieOnRale wrote: »

yeah, she frauded the taxpayer out of 104k using someone else's name over 17 years to pay her 25 year old sons drug debt. Must have been some debt if he went on tick at 8 years old.

And when she was done on 99 for handling stolen property, she'd few years of this fraud under her belt.
another son subsequently kills himself over his drug debt, and another son is killed in a shooting incident (allegedly a Kinehan hit man, with two hits under his belt).
A model mother.

Roger Hassenforder

mishkashubaly wrote: »

Try reading the rest of the article, not just selecting the bits that best suit your ill informed post. Huge mitigating circumstances that the judge obviously took into account.

A lot of people are looking after sick family members without resorting to fraud.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

She collected 104k over 17 years using an identity that wasn't her own.
Her sob stories included
- dead husband
- dead son
- murdered son
- sick daughter
Awful inflictions on the family but hey a thiefs a thief

Poor Uncle Tom

NickNickleby wrote: »

See someone above calling the OP a begrudger (indirectly). :pac:. Begrudging a thief the fruits of their labour....

Yup, on behalf of all my fellow downtrodden unfortunates I wish to express my moral outrage that people can begrudge this unfortunate lady her income, however she came by it, it's only money after all, nobody missed it anyway.

LexieOnRale

LexieOnRale wrote: »

She collected 104k over 17 years using an identity that wasn't her own.
Her sob stories included
- dead husband
- dead son
- murdered son
- sick daughter
Awful inflictions on the family but hey a thiefs a thief

So...she didn't claim that she was paying off her son's drug debt over 17 years?

It's a bit glib to dismiss the murder of one child and death of another as a "sob story".

NinetyTwoTeam

A son murdered, another dead by suicide, dead husband and kids with the same illness the husband had. And she has to mind her daughter's children. Well I certainly wouldn't trade places with her for 100k, would you OP?

What would putting in her jail do other than further hurt a family that's already in horrific circumstances?

J.pilkington

Pkiernan wrote: »

Scrounger steals 100k and walks.

Why do we bother working at all?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/school-cleaner-who-stole-over-100k-in-social-welfare-fraud-avoids-jail-35927590.html

Catches sight of sexy indo headline and reads 6 words, runs to Internet in the hope of creating a multi page thread in after hours, fraughting at the mouth at the thought of all the thanks.

Go out for a walk and get some fresh air like a good lad.

JMNolan

What's the normal consequence of tax evasion to the same amount? Should apply the same treatment as a tax evader imo

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Deleted User wrote: »

So...she didn't claim that she was paying off her son's drug debt over 17 years?

It's a bit glib to dismiss the murder of one child and death of another as a "sob story".

Yeah I'll keep my sympathy for the 2 other families of murdered children
And she did in fact claim she'd been using the money to pay off one of her sons (as there was more than one with drug debts) drug debt.

Edited to clarify: apparently he was suspected of murdering a man in a case of mistaken identity and the night he was shot garda I believed he was on his way to murder someone else, and his body was found in a stolen car.

LexieOnRale

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Yeah I'll keep my sympathy for the 2 other families of murdered children
And she did in fact claim she'd been using the money to pay off one of her sons (as there was more than one with drug debts) drug debt.

No no, I asked you to point out where she said she was paying it over 17 years.

You didn't.

JMNolan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No no, I asked you to point out where she said she was paying it over 17 years.

You didn't.

No one claimed she paid it over 17 years

solerina

Samaris wrote: »

Out of curiosity, did you read the article, in which it's made clear she's working while taking care of children, two of whom have Huntington's?

I mean, what she did was wrong, absolutely, but your comment is just plain inaccurate. Given you only wrote two sentences, it was impressively inaccurate.

Huntingtons only affects people from late middle age onwards...usually mid 40s onwards so I doubt she has actually much looking after to do as most people with Huntingtons are totally healthy before the onset.
This should not have been used as justification to let her off with this huge fraud !!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Deleted User wrote: »

No no, I asked you to point out where she said she was paying it over 17 years.

You didn't.

You're not in court now Conor. She was stealing it for 17 years. Show me where she wasn't.

JMNolan

JMNolan wrote: »

No one claimed she paid it over 17 years

Incorrect. Lexie said it. Here us the direct quote.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Must have been some debt if he went on tick at 8 years old.

JMNolan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Incorrect. Lexie said it. Here us the direct quote.

Do you really think an 8 year old child had a drug debt?

NickNickleby

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Yup, on behalf of all my fellow downtrodden unfortunates I wish to express my moral outrage that people can begrudge this unfortunate lady her income, however she came by it, it's only money after all, nobody missed it anyway.

Actually, you raise an interesting point. Someone did miss it eventually, it shouldn't have taken 17 years. Although I am not suggesting that the authorities are somehow implicit through lack of diligence.

Someone else asks if the punishment for tax evasion in the same amount should be applied. Is it not the case that tax evaders are fined, interest added to the debt?

9or10

Joey Jo-Jo Junior wrote: »

FFS. It only took five posts for a thread to turn into some bull**** about gender.

Twas ever thus

JMNolan

JMNolan wrote: »

Do you really think an 8 year old child had a drug debt?

That's a non sequitor.

Do you accept that what was said was...um...said? Or are you still claiming it was not said?

Poor Uncle Tom

NickNickleby wrote: »

Actually, you raise an interesting point. Someone did miss it eventually, it shouldn't have taken 17 years. Although I am not suggesting that the authorities are somehow implicit through lack of diligence.

Someone else asks if the punishment for tax evasion in the same amount should be applied. Is it not the case that tax evaders are fined, interest added to the debt?

Obviously, my comments to now are facetious and meant to be so. This is a clear case of fraud, where someone goes to lengths to rob money for their own benefit (regardless of whatever circumstances she blames it on, it was done for her benefit only)

Tax evasion implies the non payment of tax from ones own earnings, a totally different situation all together.

Conservative

So she raised a bunch of criminals and drug addicts, defrauded the state of 100k and is somehow worthy of sympathy?

****ing idiocy!

corner of hells

solerina wrote: »

Samaris wrote: »

Out of curiosity, did you read the article, in which it's made clear she's working while taking care of children, two of whom have Huntington's?

I mean, what she did was wrong, absolutely, but your comment is just plain inaccurate. Given you only wrote two sentences, it was impressively inaccurate.

Huntingtons only affects people from late middle age onwards...usually mid 40s onwards so I doubt she has actually much looking after to do as most people with Huntingtons are totally healthy before the onset.
This should not have been used as justification to let her off with this huge fraud !!

I think up to 10% of diagnoses are early onset with some diagnosed in thier teens.

Wanderer78

Pkiernan wrote: »

Scrounger steals 100k and walks.

Why do we bother working at all?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/school-cleaner-who-stole-over-100k-in-social-welfare-fraud-avoids-jail-35927590.html

whats happening leo?

Barry Badrinath

People have been sent to the clinker for having no TV licence.

Defraud the State of over €100k, be grand, head off there love.

Senor Fancy Pants

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

People have been sent to the clinker for having no TV licence.

Nobody is jailed for not having a TV licence. They're jailed for being found in contempt of court.

If this woman refuses to obey the order of the court, she too will be jailed. But for two years, not a five-minute turnaround.

Spanish Eyes

Judge is not in the real world. Maybe he is afraid the Kinehans will get him.

NickNickleby

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Obviously, my comments to now are facetious and meant to be so. This is a clear case of fraud, where someone goes to lengths to rob money for their own benefit (regardless of whatever circumstances she blames it on, it was done for her benefit only)

Tax evasion implies the non payment of tax from ones own earnings, a totally different situation all together.

Hahaha, yep , that did eventually click with me:(.

I suppose the person who compared penalties was thinking in terms of loss to the exchequer. So was I.

As I was saying in my other post, the thing that jumped out was the pat on the back from the judge. Its a slap in the puss to the rest of us, and while I'm not struggling these days, there were times...... and never did I consider resorting to theft or any other dishonesty to supplement a meagre income. It can be hard to accept it sometimes, (especially when seeing this kind of carry on)but doing the right thing is the right, and only, thing to do.

Wheeliebin30

Country is gone mad.

The honest people get absolutely screwed and nothing for their hard work and taxes.

The scroungers get everything handed to them and an arm put around their back telling them nothing is your fault.

freshpopcorn

I'm not a tad jealous of this woman's life!

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

The scroungers get everything handed to them and an arm put around their back telling them nothing is your fault.

The poorest areas of Dublin are the most highly represented in the criminal courts, and are handed down the harshest sentences. White-collar crime is treated notoriously leniently in this country.

The elaborate victim mentality of a large section of the 'middle class' honestly makes me wonder how half of these people ever pull themselves out of bed in the morning.

"But we're the coping classes"

Yeah, be glad you're coping and stop looking for handouts at the expense of those who cannot cope.

This sh1t really grinds my gears.

steddyeddy

LexieOnRale wrote: »

She collected 104k over 17 years using an identity that wasn't her own.
Her sob stories included
- dead husband
- dead son
- murdered son
- sick daughter
Awful inflictions on the family but hey a thiefs a thief

Lexie I think a person like her is far better to society than someone who lists of tragic events as sob stories.

Wanderer78

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The poorest areas of Dublin are the most highly represented in the criminal courts, and are handed down the harshest sentences. White-collar crime is treated notoriously leniently in this country.

The elaborate victim mentality of a large section of the 'middle class' honestly makes me wonder how half of these people ever pull themselves out of bed in the morning.

"But we're the coping classes"

Yeah, be glad you're coping and stop looking for handouts at the expense of those who cannot cope.

This sh1t really grinds my gears.

its disturbing to see the lack of knowledge of white collar crime, not just here in ireland, but globally. then we have some of our political leaders stoking the fire and effectively talking ****!:rolleyes:

Wheeliebin30

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its disturbing to see the lack of knowledge of white collar crime, not just here in ireland, but globally. then we have some of our political leaders stoking the fire and effectively talking ****!:rolleyes:

Do you agree all fraud is wrong and should be tackled be it tax fraud or social welfare fraud?

Or do you think one should be let go more than the other?

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The poorest areas of Dublin are the most highly represented in the criminal courts, and are handed down the harshest sentences. White-collar crime is treated notoriously leniently in this country.

The elaborate victim mentality of a large section of the 'middle class' honestly makes me wonder how half of these people ever pull themselves out of bed in the morning.

"But we're the coping classes"

Yeah, be glad you're coping and stop looking for handouts at the expense of those who cannot cope.

This sh1t really grinds my gears.

Your gears seem to permanently ground tbh. And your opinions always contrary to majority. Does one affect the other I wonder.

This woman is so clearly a toxic good for nothing drain on the state that you just have to despair to see the handwringing over her even after she gets of scot free despite being caught red-handed in a serious crime.

Yadda Yadda middle classes. Yadda Yadda white collar crime. Yadda Yadda HE GOT SEVEN YEARS FOR SELLING GARLIC JOE

do ye bloody hear yourselves.

Wheeliebin30

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This woman is so clearly a toxic good for nothing drain on the state that you just have to despair to see the handwringing over her even after she gets of scot free despite being caught red-handed in a serious crime.

Yadda Yadda middle classes. Yadda Yadda white collar crime. Yadda Yadda HE GOT SEVEN YEARS FOR SELLING GARLIC JOE

do ye bloody hear yourselves.

It's like we just excuse this behaviour because of da bankers.

Like it's accepted it's a free for all without consequences.

I can take that off you because I don't have it and there is nothing you can do.

When did it start becoming acceptable?

Wanderer78

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Do you agree all fraud is wrong and should be tackled be it try fraud or social welfare fraud?

Or do you think one should be let go more than the other?

BORING!! really this is boring stuff, it really really is!

there is virtually nothing done about white collar crime here, period. i would go as far as saying, its almost encouraged. this is very well documented and researched.

as much as leo and co talk about it, this is not where the majority of fraud is actually occurring, globally.

if you want more info on this matter may i suggest the work of somebody like bill black, but there are others researching these matters globally.

Wheeliebin30

Wanderer78 wrote: »

BORING!! really this is boring stuff, it really really is!

there is virtually nothing done about white collar crime here, period. i would go as far as saying, its almost encouraged. this is very well documented and researched.

as much as leo and co talk about it, this is not where the majority of fraud is actually occurring, globally.

if you want more info on this matter may i suggest the work of somebody like bill black, but there are others researching these matters globally.

Bankers and people who helped them were investigated and went to prison and are currently still there.

What others crimes are you talking of and tell me how it's encouraged?

You never answered my question.

Is welfare fraud OK but tax fraud not OK?

Why are people so up in arms about Leo trying to tackle welfare fraud?

Wanderer78

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Bankers and people who helped them were investigated and went to prison and are currently still there.

What others crimes are you talking of and tell me how it's encouraged?

You never answered my question.

Is welfare fraud OK but tax fraud not OK?

Why are people so up in arms about Leo trying to tackle welfare fraud?

sorry but this is a very boring conversation, there has been virtually no systemic change in our banking system, period. the next crash is not too far away, and has the potential to be catastrophic. theres a possibility that things such as bank bail ins could be commonplace during the next crash, amongst other things, who will we blame for these actions? dont forget, many of the debts that have been created over the past few years are actually odious!

to answer your questions, may i suggest you chat to leo and co, as they seem to know!:rolleyes:

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

steddyeddy wrote: »

Lexie I think a person like her is far better to society than someone who lists of tragic events as sob stories.

Perhaps she is, we need people like her sons to keep drug dealers earning coin and murdering innocent victims in the cases of mistaken identity whereby it was someone else who should have lost their life. We need more people stealing 6 figure sums spanning over nearly two decades. People who have criminal records for handling stolen goods. What an amazing contribution she is to civilised society. Want a sob story? Having no family at the age of 25, having buried both parents and left a job to care for an ill parent before they died, living in an abusive situation having bones broken money stolen car taken etc and absolutely nowhere to go to get away from it.
Guess how much I stole? Nothing. Guess how much the taxpayer gave me? Nothing. So I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone like that standing in front of a judge with tales of how awful her life is. We've all got our own hardships but we don't all turn into thieves or expect everyone. else to support us for almost 2 decades. People like that are like parasites to society

Ninthlife

The problem is the precedent the leniency of zero punishment sets. When do we draw a line and say enough is enough. Every person before the courts spouts the usual tough life, learning difficulties no one hugged me as a child so now im an anti social parasite.

Its about time zero tolerence was introduced and the do gooder pc brigade go live elsewhere.

And well done Lexie

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Well start a thread on it then? This is about the theft of 100k from the taxpayer