Now that's big news for EVs

NIMAN

So volvo is stopping production of ICE cars from 2019, going all electric.

http://m.independent.ie/business/world/all-electric-volvo-to-ditch-internal-combustion-engine-for-new-models-from-2019-35897151.html

GerardKeating

NIMAN wrote: »

So volvo is stopping production of ICE cars from 2019, going all electric.

http://m.independent.ie/business/world/all-electric-volvo-to-ditch-internal-combustion-engine-for-new-models-from-2019-35897151.html

That is not exactly what the article says, it says "new models launched from 2019 will be fully electric or hybrid".

The 2018 models will be sold for a few years after 2019, and hybrids are not "all electric".

NIMAN

Thats what you get for not reading past the headline.

Typical Indo, headline not being true.

Anyway, its still big news, its a step towards an EV future. I think we will probably have a decade or so of hybrids to ease people into EVs.

GerardKeating

NIMAN wrote: »

Thats what you get for not reading past the headline.

Typical Indo, headline not being true.

Anyway, its still big news, its a step towards an EV future. I think we will probably have a decade or so of hybrids to ease people into EVs.

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV would almost be the perfect car for me, if it had a little extra range.

It would (almost) get me to work as an all electric, and the use the petrol for the longer trips.

ELM327

I think if there was a car with the EV range of a gen1 leaf but with an ICE engine as a backup, it would encourage more people to (a) buy it and (b) then have the next car afterwards as a full EV as they see how little they use the ICE component

Water John

Yes, a hybrid with a good battery range would make some since, if the price can be kept down, with the second car of the household being totally EV.
Hybrids with gimmicky battery mode or non plug in annoy me.

ted1

ELM327 wrote: »

I think if there was a car with the EV range of a gen1 leaf but with an ICE engine as a backup, it would encourage more people to (a) buy it and (b) then have the next car afterwards as a full EV as they see how little they use the ICE component

like the BMW i3 REX?

zilog_jones

The i3 REx only has a 9 litre fuel tank, which can achieve about 130-140 km range on top of the EV range. The Prius Plug-in and Outlander PHEV have 45 litre tanks.

With current battery energy density (and cost), you can't have both a decent EV range and petrol range - you have to pretty much choose one of those.

ELM327

ted1 wrote: »

like the BMW i3 REX?

I knew there would be one that would suggest the rex.
It's not a normal car shape, and is way overpriced. That disqualifies it.

The tech is great, but it's the package and the price that lets it down.

NIMAN

ELM327 wrote: »

I knew there would be one that would suggest the rex.
It's not a normal car shape, and is way overpriced. That disqualifies it.

The tech is great, but it's the package and the price that lets it down.

The i3 is already off my list as potential car, as we are a family of 5. Same goes for the Ampera.

Stupid choice to make car with seats only for 4?

batman2000

GerardKeating wrote: »

That is not exactly what the article says, it says "new models launched from 2019 will be fully electric or hybrid".

The 2018 models will be sold for a few years after 2019, and hybrids are not "all electric".

Plug in Hybrid to be exact

ELM327

batman2000 wrote: »

Plug in Hybrid to be exact

So.. EV and compliance car? :D

I don't think plugins with <50km real world range are the answer. If you have a plugin with say 80km range in the real world it could be argued as a family's "gateway car" to real EV ownership.
If i said it once, I said it a thousand times. The days of ubiquitous fossil fuel as a mode of private transportation are moving behind us.

listermint

NIMAN wrote: »

The i3 is already off my list as potential car, as we are a family of 5. Same goes for the Ampera.

Stupid choice to make car with seats only for 4?

Is it thought, 5 Is not the norm for families these days, its usually 2 and 2. tbf the family stats size have changed in the last 20 years

zilog_jones

NIMAN wrote: »

Stupid choice to make car with seats only for 4?

It's usually down to either space or weight (i.e. the maximum the chassis can take when fully loaded) - again limitations of current battery density.

ELM327 wrote: »

I don't think plugins with <50km real world range are the answer. If you have a plugin with say 80km range in the real world it could be argued as a family's "gateway car" to real EV ownership.

But many families these days have two cars anyway - they're prime targets for BEV ownership.

40-50km is plenty for a lot of people's commutes in Ireland, especially once you're away from Dublin. Where I work, people who live over 20km away are very much in the minority. I'm not saying PHEVs are the answer for mass market, but they can work for a lot of people.

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

The i3 is already off my list as potential car, as we are a family of 5. Same goes for the Ampera.

Stupid choice to make car with seats only for 4?

No because EV is far from BMW's bread and butter. Investors want to make money and not spend it and spending it on EV isn't an option until their income is threatened and that will be many years yet for BMW.

+ smaller electrics usually mean better efficiency and range which make good headlines.

jerryg

NIMAN wrote: »

The i3 is already off my list as potential car, as we are a family of 5. Same goes for the Ampera.

Stupid choice to make car with seats only for 4?

Fact from cso
There are on average 2.7 persons living in households in Ireland.
http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/saveselections.asp

So a car may not suit you because you have 5 in your household but there are others out there !

unkel

The vast majority of families in continental western Europe have had 1 or 2 kids for decades. In Ireland, smaller families are more recent but we really need to get away from parents expecting their first child buying big SUV / MPV yokes. It's been beyond ridiculous for well over a decade now.

Have 3 kids myself, so small 4 seat EVs were out (Zoe, i3) and Leaf looked too narrow in the back for 3 kids (soon all teenagers) compared to Ioniq. There are of course no real options out there for people who need to fit 6 or more people in their car regularly (unless you can afford a 7 seater Tesla Model S or Model X)

Battery size increases and prices coming down will change that, but it might take some time before an affordable 7 seat BEV is available in this country...

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

The i3 is already off my list as potential car, as we are a family of 5. Same goes for the Ampera.

Stupid choice to make car with seats only for 4?

Sell one of the Children for deposit !

goz83

unkel wrote: »

There are of course no real options out there for people who need to fit 6 or more people in their car regularly (unless you can afford a 7 seater Tesla Model S or Model X)

Battery size increases and prices coming down will change that, but it might take some time before an affordable 7 seat BEV is available in this country...

And when a proper 7 seater BEV comes to market, i'll be the first to buy one....second hand :pac:

We should all have been driving hybrids back in 2000 and plugins in 2010 and now we should all be driving EV.

unkel

goz83 wrote: »

And when a proper 7 seater BEV comes to market, i'll be the first to buy one....second hand :pac:

You actually have the cheapest 10 seat BEV in the world

(needs 2 drivers, no big deal)

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

We should all have been driving hybrids back in 2000 and plugins in 2010

Nah, none of them made any difference. Better than diesel sure, but that's about it. A waste of time and money and resources developing them.

Not at all, not back then they weren't....... it would have been a good start and got battery production ramped up and also more R&D.

Failed E.U politics and corruption ensured it didn't happen and we went the diesel route mainly.

_Brian

Was talking to a friend recently in the bus business and from 2020 they will no longer make diesel only powered busses either.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Not at all, not back then they weren't....... it would have been a good start and got battery production ramped up and also more R&D.

Obviously not. Toyota have been at the Hybrids and PHEV and not a sign of an EV. What an utter waste of their resources.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Obviously not. Toyota have been at the Hybrids and PHEV and not a sign of an EV. What an utter waste of their resources.

Obviously not ? the other manufacturers apart from Honda didn't bother at all until pretty recent.

Toyota have no EV because they spend Billions in R&D on Hydrogen and refused for too long to admit they're wrong, although they never admitted it they did say they will have an EV on the road in a few years, I bet they regret selling their share in Tesla now

Hydrogen will have it's use possibly in heavy goods vehicles provided the energy is made from clean sources I don't see much of an issue but Fuel Cells are still not so good.

zilog_jones

Toyota were producing the RAV4 EV around the time they launched the original Prius, but due to patent encumbrance of large Ni-MH batteries and other bullshít they were unable to continue production as they could not source batteries. EV development was pretty much dead until Li-ion batteries were good enough (late 2000s) - but until then, Toyota continued to work on what they could i.e. hybrids with small Ni-MH batteries, and alternatives like hydrogen fuel cells. I think they were more a victim of circumstance than anything else.

At least the R&D they invested in hybrids didn't go into diesels

Indeed, how could I forget about the Rav4 EV on NiMh batteries !

If I remember correctly it was Chevron Texaco that bought the patents of the NiMh battery from GM and that was that, no Car manufacturer was allowed produce a vehicle capable of propelling itself directly on battery power from a NiMa battery and only tiny batteries were allowed to be produced for hybrids. Something like that anyway.

A sad story really.