IE & Late Night Services (Cold Play)

Shamrock776

So why just Cork and Galway (NIR Belfast) specials. Why not Waterford, Sligo etc??

The reason I ask is because I had a conversation with a fellow employee who commuters daily from Carlow and they are just completely fed up with the "not sufficient demand" line out of IE. They also said at times the Galway specials especially after FAI matches could barley break 50% yet IE still manage to run them. They have not tried a service after such a big gig so how can be possibly gauge demand?

They also gave another example that last August they deliberately excluded people from Waterford accessing seats on the hurling specials by running empty from the station and starting in Kilkenny. This when there had been no capacity for over 7 days before departure (1 special + regular sold out c500 passengers) and they didn't even manage to sell out the service from Kilkenny (about 170 empty seats apparently) yet much higher demand from Waterford. They cannot use the excuse of not wanting to mix fans from either county because the regular scheduled and all evening specials were mixed trains but the morning ones weren't.

Not a regular user but just don't get some of their decisions and how they come to such conclusions.

ClovenHoof

Unions.

The Great Northern used to run very popular late night services from Dublin on the NOrthern Line to Dundalk. Very popular with cinema and theater goers. When CIE took it the new CIE staff at Dundalk refused to work past their supper.

This is a surprising and depressing story all over the country. The Great Northern ran a hugely popular late night bus service out of Sligo to Bundoran and Letterkenny. When CIE took over the unions wanted to be home for their tea.

I can assure we would have a far more meaningful public transport system if the cancer that is CIE never existed.

bikeman1

Services are run from Dublin to Belfast 2nd biggest, Cork 3rd biggest, Limerick 4th biggest and Galway 5th biggest city outside of Dublin (excluding Derry here as it is not realistically connected).

Waterford just falls out of the list. It can also come down to set availability (current fleet is very tight) and driver availability, which I believe for the summer months is stretched to the max.

end of the road

Shamrock776 wrote: »

Not a regular user but just don't get some of their decisions and how they come to such conclusions.

i've been a regular user of the railway for over 20 years and i don't even get many of the decisians. there are people around here using it a lot longer and the same. it's easier for the company to trot out excuses rather then try something and see if it actually works. they just can't be bothered.
we are not dealing with a normal railway company here i'm afraid.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Unions.

The Great Northern used to run very popular late night services from Dublin on the NOrthern Line to Dundalk. Very popular with cinema and theater goers. When CIE took it the new CIE staff at Dundalk refused to work past their supper.

This is a surprising and depressing story all over the country. The Great Northern ran a hugely popular late night bus service out of Sligo to Bundoran and Letterkenny. When CIE took over the unions wanted to be home for their tea.

I can assure we would have a far more meaningful public transport system if the cancer that is CIE never existed.

these would be the same unions (or maybe mergers of unions) who were operating within the great northern, and even as far back as some of the original railway companies. that, and most of the staff in CIE at the time having been transfered from the companies that came before, means that actually the unions had nothing to do with it. CIE management as they do, decided themselves they couldn't be bothered operating the services any longer because "reasons"

Jamie2k9

Unions.

It's not them for a change!

Its IE management who can't be bothered operating such services or doing useful work to generate demand.

They did schedule Waterford and Sligo (very late though) services after the Garth Brooks but we all know what happened. Since then they haven't even bothered doing any especially after a Croke Park gig.

On IE side Cork/Galway capacity is just dropped from scheduled services from earlier that evening because it can be however that couldn't happen with Waterford/Sligo.

Still I don't buy no demand line either, IE just ignore comments about other routes now.

Jamie2k9

bikeman1 wrote: »

Services are run from Dublin to Belfast 2nd biggest, Cork 3rd biggest, Limerick 4th biggest and Galway 5th biggest city outside of Dublin (excluding Derry here as it is not realistically connected).

Waterford just falls out of the list. It can also come down to set availability (current fleet is very tight) and driver availability, which I believe for the summer months is stretched to the max.

Lets not make excuses for IE here, if they wanted to run them they could. Driver available may be tighter now but it wasn't at plenty of previous times.

IE whole attitude to special services is far from ideal, adding them maybe 3 weeks out isn't good enough, NIR have them added months in advance and it allows people to plan event.

Yes Waterford is much smaller than other cities but does not mean they couldn't fill a train.

Losty Dublin

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Unions.

The Great Northern used to run very popular late night services from Dublin on the NOrthern Line to Dundalk. Very popular with cinema and theater goers. When CIE took it the new CIE staff at Dundalk refused to work past their supper.

This is a surprising and depressing story all over the country. The Great Northern ran a hugely popular late night bus service out of Sligo to Bundoran and Letterkenny. When CIE took over the unions wanted to be home for their tea.

I can assure we would have a far more meaningful public transport system if the cancer that is CIE never existed.

Rubbish.

Save for some engineering and clerical staff, virtually all of the GNR staff were retained in their positions when absorbed into CIE bar redundancies, retirement and promotions. And why would they have had to change? GNR staff were members of the same trade unions as CIE staff so they were well aware of who did and got paid what upon the winding up of the GNRB in 1958.

hytrogen

Perhaps if Ticketmaster or whoever the promoter selling the tickets sells train tickets like the 3.2 arena parking, along with concert tickets we'd see d'onions put back in their box and their members would see the benefits of this lucrative opportunity... Utopian thinking of course!

Jamie2k9

hytrogen wrote: »

Perhaps if Ticketmaster or whoever the promoter selling the tickets sells train tickets like the 3.2 arena parking, along with concert tickets we'd see d'onions put back in their box and their members would see the benefits of this lucrative opportunity... Utopian thinking of course!

It's not the unions stopping them, in fact they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to.

devnull

hytrogen wrote: »

Perhaps if Ticketmaster or whoever the promoter selling the tickets sells train tickets like the 3.2 arena parking, along with concert tickets we'd see d'onions put back in their box and their members would see the benefits of this lucrative opportunity... Utopian thinking of course!

If you realised just how much Ticketmaster charges commission of it's tickets and the way it sells tickets to companies associated with who then resell at a much higher price, you'd certainly not be in favour of them taking over!

goingnowhere

Concert specials do run but are limited to the busiest routes. Also anytime Irish Rail operates a commercial service using train paid for by the NTA (i.e the entire fleet) they have to pay a fee to the NTA.

Some lines are staffed for 24 hour, some are not

Current union agreements cover any train, any day any time for no extra cash

The late night Christmas services operate at a loss but do carry significant numbers of passengers

end of the road

goingnowhere wrote: »

anytime Irish Rail operates a commercial service using train paid for by the NTA (i.e the entire fleet) they have to pay a fee to the NTA.

i believe they do have to pay a charge to the NTA yes. however, the NTA did not pay for the fleet. or at least the vast majority of it. apart from the later batch of 22000s the rest came before it came into existence. they may have ownership of it though.

Jamie2k9

goingnowhere wrote: »

Concert specials do run but are limited to the busiest routes. Also anytime Irish Rail operates a commercial service using train paid for by the NTA (i.e the entire fleet) they have to pay a fee to the NTA.

Some lines are staffed for 24 hour, some are not

Current union agreements cover any train, any day any time for no extra cash

The late night Christmas services operate at a loss but do carry significant numbers of passengers

Totally right about staffing however the real point is that IE management have no interest whatsoever in properly weighing up costs v demand. If they were organised and gave people more notice, more proactive in local media about such a service and it's a case of use it or lose it they could make it work.

80,000 people attending a gig and they cannot for example get minimum of 190 to take a train towards Waterford serving some of the largest towns (Carlow, Kikenny) is more of a bad reflection on them. Same towards Sligo etc

They are operating as far as Longford this weekend however chances are that's more operational convenience for drivers rather than demand beyond Maynooth in IE's eyes.

U2 are playing on the 22 July its the prefect opportunity to say yes we should try it and if makes heavy losses fair enough but it's the unwillingness that's the real issue.

thomasj

Worrying that most of the special services to maynooth and longford after the coldplay concert say "intercity" I hope that's just a typo!

ClovenHoof

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's not them for a change!

Case Closed. He actually defended the fact that Unions at CIE refuse to move with the times and changes in Irish social, economic and cultural life.

He actually defended this?!?!?!?!

Rootsblower

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Case Closed. He actually defended the fact that Unions at CIE refuse to move with the times and changes in Irish social, economic and cultural life.

He actually defended this?!?!?!?!

Train Drivers cannot contractually refuse to work any shifts the company proposes.

We are paid to cover all times of day and night on a 5 over 7 basis.

These extra trains don't run because the company doesn't believe in the old adage of " you must speculate to accumulate "

LXFlyer

As already posted it's a lot easier to run post-concert specials to Cork (with a connection to Limerick) and Galway by simply reducing capacity on an earlier train. The frequency of services allow this.

That luxury doesn't apply for Waterford or Sligo where the capacity can't be reduced due to high loadings.

You would have to run a train empty from either location back to Dublin to operate the special (or back to Dublin after the special operates). That's going to increase the costs of running the service and make the economics of it that much more difficult - as already posted such services operate strictly on a commercial basis.

thomasj

Additional Services

Please note to view these services on the Journey Planner please ensure you select the 9th July.

00.30hrs Dublin Heuston to Galway.
00.40hrs Dublin Heuston to Cork with connection to Limerick Colbert.
From Dublin Connolly;

23.17hrs serving all stations to Maynooth. Change at Clonsilla for Hansfield, Dunboyne and M3 Parkway.
23.37hrs Dublin Connnolly to Dundalk is deferred until 23.58hrs; serving Howth Junction and Donaghmede, Clongriffin, Portmarnock, Malahide, Donabate, Rush and Lusk, Skerries, Balbriggan, Gormanstown, Laytown, Drogheda.
00.04hrs serving all stations to Greystones.
00.05hrs serving all stations to Howth.
00.15hrs serving all stations to Howth.
00.20hrs serving all stations to Greystones.

From Drumcondra Station;
22.45hrs serving all stations to Maynooth.
23.00hrs serving all stations to Maynooth.
23.10hrs to Dublin Connolly.
23.21hrs serving all stations to Maynooth. Change at Clonsilla for Hansfield, Dunboyne and M3 Parkway.
23.30hrs serving all stations to Longford. Change at Clonsilla for Hansfield, Dunboyne and M3 Parkway.
23.44hrs to Dublin Connolly.
00.15hrs to Dublin Connolly.

http://www.irishrail.ie/summergigs

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

As already posted it's a lot easier to run post-concert specials to Cork (with a connection to Limerick) and Galway by simply reducing capacity on an earlier train. The frequency of services allow this.

That luxury doesn't apply for Waterford or Sligo where the capacity can't be reduced due to high loadings.

You would have to run a train empty from either location back to Dublin to operate the special (or back to Dublin after the special operates). That's going to increase the costs of running the service and make the economics of it that much more difficult - as already posted such services operate strictly on a commercial basis.

While I totally agree, there have been many cases where Cork/Dublin required an empty movement as well most notable before the 06.15 started but even since then.

These extra trains don't run because the company doesn't believe in the old adage of " you must speculate to accumulate "

Correct.

Case Closed. He actually defended the fact that Unions at CIE refuse to move with the times and changes in Irish social, economic and cultural life.

He actually defended this?!?!?!?!

Unions in CIE refuse to do a lot of things but as clearly pointed out it is not the case in regard to these services.

thomasj

The U2 concert didn't finish until after 11 after last night

The Longford train scheduled to leave drumcomdra at 11.30 didn't leave until about 12.15.

IE 222

thomasj wrote: »

The U2 concert didn't finish until after 11 after last night

The Longford train scheduled to leave drumcomdra at 11.30 didn't leave until about 12.15.

Is this a complaint???

Make sense to me. It would be rather stupid running a extra service for an event before it's over

thomasj

Actually it's not, it's good to see given the crowds , the time it finished and the length of time (personal experience - slow pace because of crowds) that they kept the trains waiting . People were still arriving at drumcomdra after midnight.

I'd be curious to know, given the time drumcomdra outbound trains finished at (last one scheduled @ 11.30) what time did the connolly and heuston services finished at.

Jamie2k9

thomasj wrote: »

Actually it's not, it's good to see given the crowds , the time it finished and the length of time (personal experience - slow pace because of crowds) that they kept the trains waiting . People were still arriving at drumcomdra after midnight.

I'd be curious to know, given the time drumcomdra outbound trains finished at (last one scheduled @ 11.30) what time did the connolly and heuston services finished at.

Not clear want you want to know, the specials to Galway and Cork departed as scheduled at 00.30 and 00.40 from Heuston.

thomasj

Jamie2k9 wrote:

Not clear want you want to know, the specials to Galway and Cork departed as scheduled at 00.30 and 00.40 from Heuston.

It was just curiosity more than anything else.

Given that the maynooth/Longford trains left much later than scheduled (scheduled 23.30 departed 00.15) and drumcomdra is only 5 minutes from croke park I thought the late finishing of the gig might have had an impact on connolly and heuston services.

Not complaining though!