IE - Safety First?

ED E

[Dont judge the source]

http://pca.st/Oi38 (Short link is to web podcast player)

TLDL: IE platform staff in the middle of loading wheelchairs via a ramp, train just takes off.


Nice work boys.

Jamie2k9

ED E wrote: »

[Dont judge the source]

http://pca.st/Oi38 (Short link is to web podcast player)

TLDL: IE platform staff in the middle of loading wheelchairs via a ramp, train just takes off.


Nice work boys.

Ramp still attached to the train, would be very surprised if that exact series of events happened....

Kristopherus

Talk to Joe had a couple of very interesting calls about that today. Might be worth listening to the podcast, especially the lady going to Skerries:)

Heisenberg1

There is now way a door can close with a ramp stuck in it the driver would not get a door interlock light and would not be able to take power. Listening to the woman's concerns a train like a 29k can't pull off with the doors open.

Del.Monte

No surprises there then as CIE delivers more shambolic experiences for rail travellers. Actually there was one surprise - somebody from Lavhline was actually able to contact Barry Kenny on one of his breaks from Newstalk. :rolleyes:

L1011

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

There is now way a door can close with a ramp stuck in it the driver would not get a door interlock light and would not be able to take power.

Except theres a few cases of the interlock failing

Del.Monte

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

There is now way a door can close with a ramp stuck in it the driver would not get a door interlock light and would not be able to take power. Listening to the woman's concerns a train like a 29k can't pull off with the doors open.

Obviously, but the lady who phoned Lavhline said she wasn't sure about that and what is clear is that people were separated from their party and left on the platform. As regards begging and drunks in another call - there's no platform staff in Connolly what can be expected? The Cork train - not even worth commenting on. Everybody from Station Master upwards in CIE should be shown the door.

Jamie2k9

Del.Monte wrote: »

Obviously, but the lady who phoned Lavhline said she wasn't sure about that and what is clear is that people were separated from their party and left on the platform. As regards begging and drunks in another call - there's no platform staff in Connolly what can be expected? The Cork train - not even worth commenting on. Everybody from Station Master upwards in CIE should be shown the door.

The lady wasn't sure about anything just a moan on the radio, I mean what parents get on a train and leave children un supervised on a platform. Then the other guy claiming the 09.00 to Cork didn't depart until 9.50 which was another lie....

Except theres a few cases of the interlock failing

Don't believe for a second it happened in this case. Drivers always look on the platform before/after doors close and he would of saw the ramp.

Heisenberg1

L1011 wrote: »

Except theres a few cases of the interlock failing

I know that but if that was the case the train would have been failed in Connolly and everybody off which didn't happen.

Del.Monte

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The lady wasn't sure about anything just a moan on the radio, I mean what parents get on a train and leave children un supervised on a platform. Then the other guy claiming the 09.00 to Cork didn't depart until 9.50 which was another lie....



Don't believe for a second it happened in this case. Drivers always look on the platform before/after doors close and he would of clearly saw the ramp.

Link please to prove he was lying.

Jamie2k9

Del.Monte wrote: »

Link please to prove he was lying.

It departed at 09.30 and at 09.50 it was between Hazelhatch and Sallins.

<TrainDate>03 Jul 2017</TrainDate>
<LocationCode>HSTON</LocationCode>
<LocationFullName>Dublin Heuston</LocationFullName>
<LocationOrder>1</LocationOrder>
<LocationType>O</LocationType>
<TrainOrigin>Dublin Heuston</TrainOrigin>
<TrainDestination>Cork</TrainDestination>
<ScheduledArrival>00:00:00</ScheduledArrival>
<ScheduledDeparture>09:00:00</ScheduledDeparture>
<ExpectedArrival>00:00:00</ExpectedArrival>
<ExpectedDeparture>09:00:00</ExpectedDeparture>
<Arrival/>
<Departure>09:30:00</Departure>
<AutoArrival/>
<AutoDepart>0</AutoDepart>
<StopType>-</StopType>
</objTrainMovements>

ED E

Certainly not running smoothly anyways:

07:00hrs Heuston/Cork is operating 30mins behind schedule due to a mechanical issue, expect knock-on delays at intermediate stations

devnull

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It departed at 09.30 and at 09.50 it was between Hazelhatch and Sallins.

Where did you get that from?

The reason I ask is that some of IE's systems send out data as if it was from a timetable if no real time data is available.

I've seen this because a train has been cancelled and I've seen it showing up on the IE live info as going through many stations even though I was at the station and no train went past!

Jamie2k9

devnull wrote: »

Where did you get that from?

The reason I ask is that some of IE's systems send out data as if it was from a timetable if no real time data is available.

I've seen this because a train has been cancelled and I've seen it showing up on the IE live info as going through many stations even though I was at the station and no train went past!

It's IE real time data using the train ID, it only shows times if the ID is entered and the train actually moves and passes various signs on the route.

A cancelled service will not show up nor will it indicate a delay until the train starts moving from the terminus or if stopped between stations it will just show as scheduled until it passes the next signalling point to give accurate data.

I'm on mobile app so can't post a link right now but it's what you see on the IE app or website we well.

ED E

Is this NTA RTPI? If so it in no way represents reality.

Del.Monte

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It departed at 09.30 and at 09.50 it was between Hazelhatch and Sallins.

Thanks, not that makes any sense to me. So the train was only 30 minutes late departing? What about the catering farce?

devnull

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's IE real time data using the train ID, it only shows times if the ID is entered and the train actually moves and passes various signs on the route.

A cancelled service will not show up nor will it indicate a delay until the train starts moving from the terminus or if stopped between stations it will just show as scheduled until it passes the next signalling point to give accurate data.

I'm on mobile app so can't post a link right now but it's what you see on the IE app or website we well.

I've been waiting for a train at Clongriffin in the morning and the train did not run, it counted down on the display board, showed 1 minute and a friend further up the line in Killester also saw that train count down and still no train. I tracked the train all the way to Grand Canal Dock and the train was still showing despite not running, as per normal, nobody in Irish Rail knew what was going on.

This was from the live map and the live info on the Irish Rail Website, I was late for work on an important day and it caused a slight issue with my boss and Irish Rail claim that the train ran and called me a liar until I told Irish Rail that I would complain to the NTA and suddenly they couldn't be more helpful and told me that they are sorry but there is no need to contact the NTA they will compensate me and here is a letter for my boss.

So it is certainly possible for trains that are not running to appear as they are on the system as I have seen it happening a number of times and not just that once. The question is how often does it happen?

Always makes me smile when you get into an argument with Irish Rail / Bus Eireann / Dublin Bus and they're not really interested in sorting it out or taking blame until you mention the magic three letter word and suddenly their tack changes completely.

Jamie2k9

devnull wrote: »

I've been waiting for a train at Clongriffin in the morning and the train did not run, it counted down on the display board, showed 1 minute and a friend further up the line in Killester also saw that train count down and still no train. I tracked the train all the way to Grand Canal Dock and the train was still showing despite not running, as per normal, nobody in Irish Rail knew what was going on.

This was from the live map and the live info on the Irish Rail Website, I was late for work on an important day and it caused a slight issue with my boss and Irish Rail claim that the train ran and called me a liar until I told Irish Rail that I would complain to the NTA and suddenly they couldn't be more helpful and told me that they are sorry but there is no need to contact the NTA they will compensate me and here is a letter for my boss.

So it is certainly possible for trains that are not running to appear as they are on the system as I have seen it happening a number of times and not just that once. The question is how often does it happen?

Always makes me smile when you get into an argument with Irish Rail / Bus Eireann / Dublin Bus and they're not really interested in sorting it out or taking blame until you mention the magic three letter word and suddenly their tack changes completely.

Yeah this is the big flaw, they did say a while back they are working on a system where the GPS on the train will provide the data which in theory would be intended to eliminate what you describe above but it's gone very quiet on it's progress.

Thanks, not that makes any sense to me. So the train was only 30 minutes late departing? What about the catering farce?

Yes 30 minutes, but lose around 20-25 minutes more after getting stuck behind a commuter service and terminated in Mallow 50 minutes late and passengers given a different train to Cork.

No idea about food but if there was a train change it would of been a case of the trolley moved onto new train and whatever was left in the dinning car from the other service. They wouldn't of moved fridges or their content.

Hilly Bill

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

There is now way a door can close with a ramp stuck in it the driver would not get a door interlock light and would not be able to take power. Listening to the woman's concerns a train like a 29k can't pull off with the doors open.

The ramp doesn't block the door on the 29's. Driver error.

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The lady wasn't sure about anything just a moan on the radio, I mean what parents get on a train and leave children un supervised on a platform. Then the other guy claiming the 09.00 to Cork didn't depart until 9.50 which was another lie....



Don't believe for a second it happened in this case. Drivers always look on the platform before/after doors close and he would of saw the ramp.

He didn't in this case. He pulled off with half the group still trying to board.

Jamie2k9

Hilly Bill wrote: »

He didn't in this case. He pulled off with half the group still trying to board.

I see, still a bit of cop on wouldn't go done any harm with the group...

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I see, still a bit of cop on wouldn't go done any harm with the group...

In what way?

Jamie2k9

Hilly Bill wrote: »

In what way?

Foot in the door would be a start.

It all seems like a rather odd series of events, yes the driver made the mistake but I just don't really get how the group were boarding the train that they managed to leave kids on the platform. Get on the train and the IE staff would load the wheelchairs.

Other option to pull the emergency switch.

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Foot in the door would be a start.

It all seems like a rather odd series of events, yes the driver made the mistake but I just don't really get how the group were boarding the train that they managed to leave kids on the platform. Get on the train and the IE staff would load the wheelchairs.

Other option to pull the emergency switch.

The kids were with other family members.

JayRoc

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Foot in the door would be a start.

It all seems like a rather odd series of events, yes the driver made the mistake but I just don't really get how the group were boarding the train that they managed to leave kids on the platform. Get on the train and the IE staff would load the wheelchairs.

Other option to pull the emergency switch.

If it did actually happen as the lady tells it, are you saying she was at fault for not herding the kids on to the train ahead of the wheelchair passengers... in case the train pulled away in the middle of the group boarding?

Jamie2k9

JayRoc wrote: »

If it did actually happen as the lady tells it, are you saying she was at fault for not herding the kids on to the train ahead of the wheelchair passengers... in case the train pulled away in the middle of the group boarding?

No, when you are running for a train which is about to depart then I don't see why there was a delay in boarding passengers who didn't require assistance.

Spanish Eyes

I do realise that the natives and regular commuters are entitled to good customer service.

However, I was in Connolly recently, and a group of foreign tourists with bicycles were baffled as to how to get through the ticket barriers. They just didn't know how to open the barrier. No signs no personnel, nothing. They were looking around them for help. I obliged, no problem.

Just a little rant.

About begging and the like, rail stations all over the world are rather seedy places, so Dublin is absolutely no different in that regard, not that it's right, but it's a public order challenge for the Gardai not IR I would think.

IR is very blasé about its role. If they had uniformed staff in the concourses of rail stations it would help a lot regarding assistance, and maybe keeping the riff raff at bay too! Come on IR....

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

No, when you are running for a train which is about to depart then I don't see why there was a delay in boarding passengers who didn't require assistance.

They were there before the train pulled in they could have used another door but somehow must think that a train just has the one door.

Hilly Bill

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I do realise that the natives and regular commuters are entitled to good customer service.

However, I was in Connolly recently, and a group of foreign tourists with bicycles were baffled as to how to get through the ticket barriers. They just didn't know how to open the barrier. No signs no personnel, nothing. They were looking around them for help. I obliged, no problem.

Just a little rant.

About begging and the like, rail stations all over the world are rather seedy places, so Dublin is absolutely no different in that regard, not that it's right, but it's a public order challenge for the Gardai not IR I would think.

IR is very blasé about its role. If they had uniformed staff in the concourses of rail stations it would help a lot regarding assistance, and maybe keeping the riff raff at bay too! Come on IR....

They do have staff as well as security, if they see any begging or someone acting up then they will do something. They can't provide personal security to everyone that passes through a station.

Del.Monte

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They do have staff as well as security, if they see any begging or someone acting up then they will do something. They can't provide personal security to everyone that passes through a station.

The only staff that I ever see are on the barriers - not a soul out on the suburban platforms.

Hilly Bill

Del.Monte wrote: »

The only staff that I ever see are on the barriers - not a soul out on the suburban platforms.

You will at peak times and there are CCTV all over the place.

ED E

Days on and still no denial form IE PR. I'll take that as an admission.

Hilly Bill

ED E wrote: »

Days on and still no denial form IE PR. I'll take that as an admission.

They are not going to have an inquiry on here about it are they.

Del.Monte

ED E wrote: »

Days on and still no denial form IE PR. I'll take that as an admission.

What do you expect, Barry Kenny is probably travelling Europe for Newstalk. :rolleyes:

lawlolawl

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

IR is very blasé about its role. If they had uniformed staff in the concourses of rail stations it would help a lot regarding assistance, and maybe keeping the riff raff at bay too! Come on IR....

I'm actually IR station staff and i agree with you about a presence for assistance but the riff raff will still be there regardless.

They have zero fear of anyone, including the gardai and i am threatened with physical violence regularly. I just leave them at it now unless they are causing direct harm to/hassling normal people and then i ring the gardai and hope they: a):bother to show up and b:)actually do something about the people involved.

The free travel scheme has a huge hand in these antisocial issues. Not a great idea to give the nations undesirables completely free, any time, any service travel when they have nothing to do and all day to do it.

It just leads to them travelling the country and acting the bollix/dealing drugs/getting hammered with their buddies the next town over.

Spanish Eyes

lawlolawl wrote: »

I'm actually IR station staff and i agree with you about a presence for assistance but the riff raff will still be there regardless.

They have zero fear of anyone, including the gardai and i am threatened with physical violence regularly. I just leave them at it now unless they are causing direct harm to/hassling normal people and then i ring the gardai and hope they: a):bother to show up and b:)actually do something about the people involved.

The free travel scheme has a huge hand in these antisocial issues. Not a great idea to give the nations undesirables completely free, any time, any service travel when they have nothing to do and all day to do it.

It just leads to them travelling the country and acting the bollix/dealing drugs/getting hammered with their buddies the next town over.

Thanks for the on site info. I know the "riff raff" have free rein wherever they go, they have no respect for anyone or anything. Get it free = no respect. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

The rest of the paying travelling public do not get superior service either for their payment though. That is a problem.

I know it is not your fault. Glad you have put your head above the parapet just the same.

Something has to be done though. And soon. I suppose paying people just accept it as the norm. It was ever thus.

XPS_Zero

A few things said on this thread that have really annoyed me.

1. The suggestion that a driver "would never do this". Man, ...in every job you have incompetents, on sheer odds you WILL have one in Irish Rail then when you consider the fact that it's an entity with a natural monopoly and thus no competition and therefore has had no incentive (and no govt push either) to develop any kind of customer service ethos (same reason DSP, DOE and HSE staff are famous for their incompetence and rudeness)...consider all those factors together and not only will IE attract some incompetents like any other company but by it's nature it will attract a disproportionate number.
Safety being an issue, drivers tend to obviously be more carefully selected and trained than say a station porter so you have incidents like this be very very rare to unheard of...but on sheer odds of probability it's gonna happen at some stage. Because we might not do something in a job does not mean someone else isn't stupid enough to do it.

2. There is nothing wrong with getting on a train ahead of your kids when the train is not meant to be leaving yet it's not as if they got on went down the carriage and sat down, they knew a staff member was helping another get on etc right behind them they could not predict that would happen with the train

3. We really need to stop encouraging this myth that every skanger has an FT pass, I've gone into the guts of the numbers on this several times now and this myth just WILL NOT f***k off already, you have to be in pretty nasty health shape to qualify for Disability and most of the white tracksuit brigade are social outcasts not suffering from a medical condition, contrary to popular belief only a tiny % are heroin addicts suffering from HIV etc and thus get an FT card, most knacktastics out there don't have one, they hang around transit stations because it's a great place to panhandle money out of people "far a hostel"
Anyone with a criminal conviction should be automatically barred from getting an FT pass IMO without exception, but I'm really sick of seeing this being blown out of all proportion. About 800,000 people have FT cards (mostly pensioners and spouses of pensioners) and the number who have them for drug addictions and assorted complications is in the single digit to very low 5 digit thousands at best, as I've broken down before in painstaking detail.

4. I'm sure the story itself did not go down the exact way it was told, I've learned over the years that people tend to (intentionally or not) edit these stories or simplify them in the telling but if a trains doors closed leaving people on the platform with a ramp not fully secured, in any circumstances, that's pretty careless

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

...in every job you have incompetents, on sheer odds you WILL have one in Irish Rail then when you consider the fact that it's an entity with a natural monopoly and thus no competition

whatever incompetent staff that exist in irish rail are incompetent because they are incompetent. nothing to do with monopolies or competition. incompetent staff exist in companies with competition as well. they need to be routed out wherever they are, and if not that is down to bad management.