The Need for Speed!!

Murph1987

Basically I want to get faster but not sure how maybe others have had this issue in the past and can provide some nuggets of knowledge.
Background
5K PB - 21:26
10K PB - 44:26
I generally train at these distances never going beyond 12.5k and never below 5k but varying distances in between.
I use interval training at the minute usually usually 1 day a week of either 6x400 or 6x800. 
I dont do a lot of tempo runs and I try to keep my pace between 4:50-4:30 per/k.
I dont do any S&C work so this could be a problem.
If weight could be an issue then I'm 5"7 and weigh about 165lbs (Im hoping this isnt the problem :))
I would love to take time off my PB's but they are long standing ones and I just cant seem to get back to my best...can anyone help me or give me any tips. Thanks!

pconn062

Murph1987 wrote: »

Basically I want to get faster but not sure how maybe others have had this issue in the past and can provide some nuggets of knowledge.
Background
5K PB - 21:26
10K PB - 44:26
I generally train at these distances never going beyond 12.5k and never below 5k but varying distances in between.
I use interval training at the minute usually usually 1 day a week of either 6x400 or 6x800. 
I dont do a lot of tempo runs and I try to keep my pace between 4:50-4:30 per/k.
I dont do any S&C work so this could be a problem.
If weight could be an issue then I'm 5"7 and weigh about 165lbs (Im hoping this isnt the problem :))
I would love to take time off my PB's but they are long standing ones and I just cant seem to get back to my best...can anyone help me or give me any tips. Thanks!

Hard to say really what the issue is without the full picture. How long are you running? How many days a week do you run? How's your diet? Do you do the exact same training every week?

You seem to be running your easy days very quick, what's the purpose of running at 4.30/40 on your easy days? You would be better off slowing these days down. As for weight, again it's hard to say for sure with out knowing your body shape but it seems a little high for your weight. To give a comparison, I'm 3 inches taller that you and nearly 20 pounds lighter. It's not going to be the only issue though I would imagine. Maybe give us some more info and we can go from there.

ariana`

A lot of people seem to recommend joining a club to improve

And/or following a structured plan with sessions targeted at your goal(s)

BeepBeep67

Your 5k and 10k times are quite comparable.

Do you tend to feel relatively comfortable in the 1st half of your 5k / 10k races and then fade in the 2nd half.
This can happen if you interval work is focused on shorter repeats.

Your 800 session is fine in isolation, but your 400 session lacks volume and if you are doing the same session over and over again after a point improvement diminishes.

You could look to progress this session over a 6 week period and then look at the McMillian 10k workout thread.

Something like: 12 x 400 @ 5k pace off 60secs; 8 x 600 @ 5k pace off 75secs, 6 x 800 @ 5k pace off 90secs, 6 x 1000 @ 5k pace off 2mins, 5 x 1200 @ 5k pace off 2mins30, 4 x 1M @ 5k pace off 3mins.

Murph1987

To give extra back round I'm almost 30 and I've been running the last 5/6 years. Initially to lose weight I was over 50lbs heavier but then I just kept running because I really enjoyed the competitive edge to it and it also kept me fit for the soccer seasons too. Generally run 4/5 times a week : 1 Interval, 2 longish runs and 1 easy run and its not the same every week but its usually just the distances that vary. Diet is good I really don't think that is the problem. 

Thanks for the advice so far, I have considered joining a club but I haven't given much thought to it. I usually like doing my own thing when it comes to running. I do think increasing the distances of my repeats will help but don't feel that I fade during my runs. The times are very consistent, if I do a 5K run each K is very close to 4:30 and I'm usually comfortably under 22:30.

Swashbuckler

I was in a very similar position to you and came on here for some advice a while back. Since then I have reduced my 5k time from 21 mins to 18:55 and my 10k from 43 to 40.29 with a sub 40 attempt coming next month.

Key advice and points.

If you are running 5 days a week make three of those runs hard and have two easy days. Easy means easy. Don't race the easy days. Maybe around 40 or 50 mins of easy running.

For the hard runs, mix in tempo, intervals and long runs. For long runs I'm doing ten miles. One long run every week and I never miss it.

The tempo run for me is approx 1 mile warmup, four miles at tempo pace and one mile warm down. Use the mcmillan calculator to calculate your tempo pace.

The intervals I vary every week. One week will be 12x400m at 5k pace or my favourite; 6x1000m at 5k pace. Again use the macmilliant calculator online to show your target paces. Recovery for me between intervals is usually around 25% of the interval time. So for 1000m I'm doing it in 3:45ish so my recovery is around 60s. Take longer if you need to.

The odd time I will throw in an interval hill sprint session or 800m intervals to keep the body guessing.

So basically my week consists of Monday - interval session, Tuesday - easy, Wednesday - 10 mile run, Thursday - easy, Friday - tempo.

Sometimes I'll do the tempo as part of a local parkrun. Sunday is rest day.

Every four weeks I take a bit of a down week where I drop the volume a bit to refresh. You also should sign up to races as motivation. This has helped me hugely. I've ran 5 races this year with three more to go before September.

There are better experts on here than me but that's my two cents.

Swashbuckler

Completely forgot to mention the Mcmillan biweekly alternating 6 x 1m, 1 x2m and 4 x 2m, 2 x 2m and 1 x 2m and finally 3 x 2m at 10k pace is very good.

Murph1987

This is fantastic info and I think exactly what I have been looking for. Just one question, when you say two should be hard do you mean that I should run the 10 mile at race pace? Or the fact that running 10 mile is hard anyway and should be run easy?

Swashbuckler

Murph1987 wrote:

This is fantastic info and I think exactly what I have been looking for. Just one question, when you say two should be hard do you mean that I should run the 10 mile at race pace? Or the fact that running 10 mile is hard anyway and should be run easy?

Yeah it's really the fact that ten miles is "hard" anyway. I'd never do a ten miler at my 10k pace. Generally my ten miler was approx 90s per mile slower than my 10k target pace (7:50m/ mile). Of late I have been upping the pace of my ten miler a bit tho and introducing some progressive sections. So I have three "hard" runs a week - the tempo run, the interval session and the ten miler.
Again try the mcmillan calculator to give you your long run target pace.