Germany and France to run the EU

Help!!!!

A Polish newspaper has released a leaked document stating the two countries are going to take charge of the EU & turn it into a superstate without consulting Brussels or any other EU country.
So if true Berlin & Paris would tell other EU countries what to do regarding security/refugees etc. Germany has never cared about other smaller EU countries, they only care about their own economy.
If it is true would you be happy for this to happen? Or will it be the end for the EU??
I for one would want to leave, its not what the people of Ireland voted for

Really Interested

Help!!!! wrote: »

A Polish newspaper has released a leaked document stating the two countries are going to take charge of the EU & turn it into a superstate without consulting Brussels or any other EU country.
So if true Berlin & Paris would tell other EU countries what to do regarding security/refugees etc. Germany has never cared about other smaller EU countries, they only care about their own economy.
If it is true would you be happy for this to happen? Or will it be the end for the EU??
I for one would want to leave, its not what the people of Ireland voted for

Some links might be an idea.

Help!!!!

Really Interested wrote: »

Some links might be an idea.

Yeah sorry

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svERJn9tmIY

srsly78

Any chance of a reputable source?

BlinkingLights

You realize that isn't possible without substantial treaty changes and those would have to be passed by every EU member state's parliament and in Ireland (and possibly Denmark) a referendum.

Not to mention France voted down the EU construction and is a lot less blindly pro EU than people seem to think in the Express.

A lot of hysterical nonsense that most people reading it ready to lap up.

Help!!!!

srsly78 wrote: »

Any chance of a reputable source?

Would you prefer CNN?? :rolleyes:

srsly78

Help!!!! wrote: »

Would you prefer CNN?? :rolleyes:

I would prefer multiple reputable sources, instead of a random tabloid + russia today. Do you even realise you are spreading anti-EU progaganda? Basically treason, lucky we have free speech right?

I fail to see how anyone can take your sources seriously in this context.

Really Interested

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yeah sorry

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svERJn9tmIY

That story was from a year ago! Them Germans and French better hurry up been 12 months.

Help!!!!

srsly78 wrote: »

I would prefer multiple reputable sources, instead of a random tabloid + russia today. Do you even realise you are spreading anti-EU progaganda? Basically treason, lucky we have free speech right?

I fail to see how anyone can take your sources seriously in this context.

Treason?? haha whatever. Well have a look online yourself if you dont want to believe two reports from two different sources

BlitzKrieg

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yeah sorry

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svERJn9tmIY

considering that this was reported a year ago with the statement it was to be revealed at the end of the year and wasnt...

I think you can scratch it up to being bullsh*t.

Really Interested

Help!!!! wrote: »

Treason?? haha whatever. Well have a look online yourself if you dont want to believe two reports from two different sources

There are tons of sources for this story which is a year old.

Syphonax

As the largest countries in the EU, they already run it. And with the exit of Britain, the EU is more continental. Question is, how much do France and Germany trust each other and do we want to really follow their lead?

NIMAN

Wait til Germany play France in WC2018 or WC2022 final and it'll all be off.

lawred2

sigh

thomasj

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yeah sorry

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svERJn9tmIY

One of todays top stories
http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/822387/Truth-about-aliens-on-Earth-Paradigm-Research-Group-UFO

Says it all about this paper!

murphaph

Help!!!! wrote: »

A Polish newspaper

Daily Mailski?

Inquitus

Can we lock this absolute nonsense?

recedite

While the Daily Express story is exaggerated, there is no doubt that it points to the way in which the Merkel-Macron alliance would like to run things in the EU, if they had their own way.

And it also gives a useful insight into how the power struggle is shifting eastward within the EU, partly as a result of Brexit.
Before, it was mainly Britain that kept the Franco-German bloc from totally controlling the EU.
But as Britain started to pull back from the EU, we saw the Visegrad group mentioned in that article re-asserting itself.

The public broadcaster reported the bombshell proposal would be presented to a meeting of the Visegrad group of countries - made up of Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia - by German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier.

A lot of this tension has been driven by the migrant issue, and the Franco German proposals for mandatory migrant quotas within the EU.

More recently Austria switched sides, and the Visegrad group is starting to be eclipsed by the larger CEDC group.

In recent days, Italy is starting to crack too.

The Italian government is considering blocking boats carrying migrants from landing at its ports after nearly 11,000 refugees arrived on its shores in five days.

Ireland, of course, sits on the fence waiting for further instructions. We'll be told what our new border arrangements are in due course. The border arrangements between the 6 and the 26 counties are currently being decided in negotiations between an Englishman (David Davis) and a Frenchman (Michel Barnier).

And we are also quite happy to ferry the migrants from Libya, as long as we can drop them off in Italy, and not have the LE Eithne bring them back to Cork.

The future of the EU looks like an east-west power struggle, with the dividing line at the German-Austrian border.

With Ireland and Britain as two isolated islands located off the west coast of the continent, one in the EU and one out.

ancapailldorcha

Help!!!! wrote: »

Would you prefer CNN?? :rolleyes:

lawred2 wrote: »

sigh

murphaph wrote: »

Daily Mailski?

No more of this sort of nonsense please.

Inquitus wrote: »

Can we lock this absolute nonsense?

Report posts if you have a problem with them as opposed to bringing it up on thread please.

Roanmore

I'm just back from Spain and I use to look at the headlines of all the UK newspapers, the Daily Express had an anti EU headline on it everyday for about 8 of the 10 days I was there. Totally ignoring the huge stories which were going on in Britain at the time.

recedite

Helmut Kohl's funeral is on today.
A hero in Germany, and known as the father of German reunification, but he won't be buried in Germany and he won't have a German flag on his coffin.

Apparently he wasn't getting on too well with Multi-Kulti Merkel over the last few years, whereas Victor Orban is one of the few European politicians who regularly visited him in his retirement.

It seems Kohl specified before he died that Orban give a eulogy at the funeral, and Merkel should not be allowed to speak at it. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

It looks like the eurocrats and the family have agreed to a funeral in strasbourg with an EU flag on the coffin.

Kohl was a believer in EU integration, but also a believer in a strong Germany and a strong and united EU. This article gives some idea of the difference between him and Merkel.
Things would be very different now in Germany, and the whole EU, if Merkel had never deposed him. The eastern countries would not be vilified as they are now, and the British would never have left.

recedite

Well its all over now. Merkel took over the eulogy, pretending she was his best buddy. No sign of Viktor Orban, he must have been either barred, or told to stay out of sight. All very fake looking.
What a load of $hite.
After "the first EU funeral" the coffin was carried back across the Rhine for his burial and the EU flag was swapped for a German one.

CroFag

Old news. It's a long time in the making, "an EU of 2 speeds" :

1. inner circle of states who want closer ties, so called "core of the eu", Germany, France, Benelux, Italy etc.
2. other states who want to stay in the current position, eastern-central Europe, Denmark, Sweden etc.

I'm not sure which camp will the Irish join...

Ludwig Heinrich Edler

Help!!!! wrote: »

A Polish newspaper has released a leaked document stating the two countries are going to take charge of the EU & turn it into a superstate without consulting Brussels or any other EU country.
So if true Berlin & Paris would tell other EU countries what to do regarding security/refugees etc. Germany has never cared about other smaller EU countries, they only care about their own economy.
If it is true would you be happy for this to happen? Or will it be the end for the EU??
I for one would want to leave, its not what the people of Ireland voted for

Germany and France have different economies and different interests. The fact that Germany is constantly at odds with the ECB is the most important indicator of what will happen if the rift were to widen.

I know Brits and Brit sympathizers would like to see the EU break up and unfortunately I think that is precisely what will happen. Not only that but neighbouring countries are likely to forge alliances albeit reluctantly in many cases. This could bring Ireland back under the British sphere of influence and elsewhere the benelux countries might go it alone, Denmark may look to other Scandanavian countries and so on.

The EU is better together so its demise would be a pity. Had it been governed properly, it would be able to survive. The trigger that will lead to the breakup of the EU will come with the next economic crisis in my opinion. That could be sooner than people think.

recedite

Ludwig Heinrich Edler wrote: »

This could bring Ireland back under the British sphere of influence and elsewhere the benelux countries might go it alone, Denmark may look to other Scandanavian countries and so on.

Britain and Norway have a lot in common; both wanted free trade (an EEC) with the continent but never wanted to be subsumed into the superstate. Some kind of an economic area alliance based on these, and also taking in Ireland Iceland and Denmark would be interesting. It would also control significant wealth in terms of gas, oil and fisheries.

Nody

recedite wrote: »

Britain and Norway have a lot in common; both wanted free trade (an EEC) with the continent but never wanted to be subsumed into the superstate. Some kind of an economic area alliance based on these, and also taking in Ireland Iceland and Denmark would be interesting. It would also control significant wealth in terms of gas, oil and fisheries.

That would be snowball chance in hell beyond the extreme brexit wet dreams. There are so many inherent conflict between UK, Norway and Iceland on fishing, Norway and UK on oil, the fact UK would be way to dominant in size etc.

recedite

Nody wrote: »

the fact UK would be way too dominant in size etc.

Who knows what size the UK will be in a few years time. It could be just England and Wales left as the rump state.

Nody

recedite wrote: »

Who knows what size the UK will be in a few years time. It could be just England and Wales left as the rump state.

But by definition would that not then further drive the wish for the England/Wales population to retain their sovereignty by not being governed by a supranational organization (since this was a big driver for Brexit in the first place with ECJ etc.)?

recedite

Nody wrote: »

being governed by a supranational organization

Nobody would "be governed by it"; it would be an economic free trade area with joint standards and some sharing of common (eg oceanic) resources, which is what the UK signed up for when it joined the EEC, and similar to what Norway wanted from the EU.

Really Interested

recedite wrote: »

Nobody would "be governed by it"; it would be an economic free trade area with joint standards and some sharing of common (eg oceanic) resources, which is what the UK signed up for when it joined the EEC, and similar to what Norway wanted from the EU.

How would the joint standards be agreed and imposed. How would one party deal with the other taking to much rush from the shared resource?

recedite

Really Interested wrote: »

How would the joint standards be agreed and imposed.

Existing ones would be maintained intact (based on the already harmonised EU ones) Future ones could be similarly based on future EU adopted standards, or new harmonised standards could be created and negotiated via a joint technical panel that included the EU (or whatever players are left in the event of the EU's demise).
Joint resources could be administered by individual separate agreements, or by joint bodies set up for the purpose. That is not the same as having one central govt. presiding over everyone.