Calling all duathletes -Advice for 3 day week DCM prigram incorporating cycling as xt

Mumontherun

Hi, a marathon newbie, but experienced runner & also into road cycling. I have signed up for DCM. Looking at various plans, the run calculator link on here suggests I am capable of a 3:30 marathon ( I am not so sure about this). Whilst I will aim for a sub 3:40 I will re adjust my time if I feel the training isn't going according to plan. I have looked at a few programs for sub 3:40 and in particular the Runners World Run Less Run Faster, which is based on 3 key runs a week, which would suit me but I do feel the long runs are very long in comparison to other programs for sub 3:40. It's a 16 week program (which I hope to start 1 week early which would be in a week to allow for sickness/life interruptions etc) with the long runs starting as follows, 13 miles, 15, 17, 20, 18, 20, 13, 18, 20, 15, 20, 15, 20, 13, 10, Race Day. I generally cycle at least twice a week, a current weekend long ride approx 100k avg 27/28 km/hr and a mid week either tempo 30/850k @ 30km/hr or 70/80k avg 26 km/hr. I would like to keep part of the cycling going as my cross training but the program doesn't recommend that quantity of cycling as xt but I would be willing to cut the long weekend spin to 70k and try and space a days rest between my long spin and long run. I am still hoping to do a few more sportives before the Summer is over. Anyone here in a similar situation to me who does both running and cycling and managed to train for a marathon whilst continuing tocycle and can give me any advice / program recommendations?Q

shotgunmcos

3 runs a week plus 100-160km+ cycling.. Keep consistency at that and you will have no problems with the marathon. Just prioritize your long runs. If it comes to a dilemma between a cycle you really want to do and a long run you really don't... remember what your A goal is!

I know its easy to say (and I've made all the mistakes) but rather than train for a time, get into your program, do a 10k and benchmark your fitness/progress. On the day you may be in 3:40 shape or 3:30 shape. Getting closer to a pacer band will help your chances as those guys run a metronomic pace (I used to be one at DCM).

Now, all that is relative to just how "experienced" a runner you are? If you are experienced enough to know your own body without the watch, then its simply a matter of dialing in distance. Long runs are your key session every week.

Mumontherun

Thanks @shotgunmcos good advice & just what I wanted to hear, but should I be keeping the cycling at an easy aerobic pace, the club spin averages 27/28 km/hr.

My three key sessions in the marathon program are 1) intervals 2)tempo/steady 3)long run, the intervals and long run will take a toll on the body, I need to keep a day after each to allow recover. Just trying to figure out how will I fit the cycling in, I would be happy to do the long spin every 2 weeks, which is a Sunday, so this is my proposed weekly schedule, could you take a look and let me know what you think?

Also bear in mind, I work 20 hours over 3 days a week and have a very busy home life with children.
________________________________________________________________
MONDAY - Steady / Tempo (per marathon program)
MONDAY p.m. recovery run (5 miles v. easy done with beginner group pace 7:00 mins/km),

TUESDAY - REST

WEDNESDAY - Intervals (per marathon program)

THURSDAY - short tempo cycle (aim for 30 km/hr / 1 hour max)

FRIDAY a.m. early long run, (if not working)
if working will have to do the long run on Saturday morning.

FRIDAY p.m. recovery run 5 miles Friday night (7:00 mins/km)

SATURDAY - rest / yoga / stretch / foam roll

SUNDAY (every second)- long Club spin Sunday (up to 100 km max).

Mumontherun

In hindsight, looking at my schedule, I have crammed three hard days in together, the intervals, tempo cycle & long run, so will have to re-evaluate. Maybe, do a tempo cycle every 2/3 weeks, and/or move the long run to Saturday and only do the long spin every second sunday ?? Is it really possible to do it all and is it even realistic #confused

Macy0161

Be interested to see how you fair. I tried to follow that plan, but ended up injured (not necessarily blaming the plan, other biomechanical issues) - I probably don't have your running base, and kept too much cross training going.

One thing is that their long run pace is significantly faster than a traditional "Long Run". That's probably explains the difference in distance?

Haven't ruled out a second marathon attempt, but my current thinking is to follow the runs on the TrainerRoad Full plan - I already subscribe for my bike sessions now, and they seem more realistic/ less pace focussed.

pgibbo

Mumontherun wrote: »

In hindsight, looking at my schedule, I have crammed three hard days in together, the intervals, tempo cycle & long run, so will have to re-evaluate. Maybe, do a tempo cycle every 2/3 weeks, and/or move the long run to Saturday and only do the long spin every second sunday ?? Is it really possible to do it all and is it even realistic #confused

You also have the steady/tempo effort on the Monday after a long spin on Sunday.

A good place to start would be to mark out the time you know you will have available to train every week. Build the schedule from there trying to ensure the quality session aren't back to back where possible. If they do need to be back to back then try to have one in the morning and the other the following evening to maximise recovery.

Mumontherun

Thanks everyone for the advice, I am struggling to see how I can fit everything in the week and how my body could handle it all (I am trying to do 3 hard running sessions and 2 hard cycling sessions - unrealistic). I will have to prioritise and focus on my A goal, and although I love the bike and don't want to lose my fitness, I think it will have to take second place to the running for the next few months. Has anyone here any experience of the Runners World F.I.R.S.T. training program and has it worked for you ??? I have been doing some research and there is a lot of negativity online. Is there any free online marathon training program you would recommend based on times, I am thinking sub 3:40 at this stage ?

pgibbo

I used FIRST when I started triathlon. Although I had some success with it I found I plateaued and extra mileage was required. I also found that it was fine for 5k & 10k but not great when the distances went up.

It might be worth checking on the AR forum for marathon plans.

Mumontherun

Will do thanks, but I don't really want to do more than 3/4 days running a week as I am prone to picking up injuries, hence the 3 day week and 2 days cross training initially seemed a better plan

conor_mc

Check out our own boards.ie DCM Novices plan over on the running forum. It a step up from say a Hal Higdon Novice plan but is good for a 3:30 if you've got the base fitness. It's fairly one-dimensional re pace, so that'll make your cycling a bit easier to fit in. You'll have some back to back mid-distance sessions maybe, but not necessarily hard/tempo sessions.

I've used the boards plan twice and was very happy with it. Although they will try to convince you that cycling is evil and sent by the devil to prevent you running a marathon!! ;-)

Edit - sorry, you're looking for a 3 day plan, maybe the boards one could be switched up to substitute in bike rides instead of runs? Alternatively, check out an ironman plan, just tone down the cycling to the level you want, drop the swimming, but the running should be enough to get you through a marathon?