Irish Derby 2017

tryfix

1 13-436 Capri28 3 9-0 A P O´Brien72 112 118 127
grey colt Galileo — Dialafara (FR) (Anabaa (USA)

2 1-13 Cracksman28 3 9-0 John Gosden54 — 125 132
bay colt Frankel (GB) — Rhadegunda (GB) (Pivotal (GB)

3 54-217 Douglas Macarthur28 3 9-0 A P O´Brien72 111 116 126
bay colt Galileo — Alluring Park (Green Desert (USA)

4 621-55 Dubai Sand55 3 9-0 J S Bolger30 104 87 116
chestnut colt Teofilo — Bring Back Matron (Rock Of Gibraltar)

5 73357 Finn McCool7 3 9-0 A P O´Brien72 98 94 111
bay colt Galileo — Mystical Lady (Halling (USA)

6 31-621 Grandee23 3 9-0 Mrs John Harrington55 102 101 116
bay colt Lope De Vega — Caravan Of Dreams (Anabaa (USA)

7 8-321 Spanish Steps6 3 9-0 A P O´Brien72 — 85 102
bay colt Galileo — Turbulent Descent (USA) (Congrats (USA)?

8 5-2244 Taj Mahal9 3 9-0 A P O´Brien72 113 122 127
bay colt Galileo — You´resothrilling (USA) (Storm Cat (USA)

9 30-130 The Anvil28 3 9-0 A P O´Brien72 108 107 122
bay colt Galileo — Brightest (GB) (Rainbow Quest (USA)

10 2-3110 Venice Beach28 3 9-0 A P O´Brien72 111 111 122
bay colt Galileo — Danedrop (Danehill (USA)

11 131-22 Waldgeist27 3 9-0 A Fabre100 — 125 130
chestnut colt Galileo — Waldlerche (GB) (Monsun (GER)

12 149-21 Wings Of Eagles28 3 9-0 A P O´Brien72 119 128 135
bay colt Pour Moi — Ysoldina (FR) (Kendor (FR))

http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/horses2/cards/card.sd?race_id=662834&r_date=2017-07-01#raceTabs=lc_



It's shaping up to be a small but competitive field with Wings Of Eagles and Cracksman vying for favouritism around the 2/1, 5/2 mark with French Derby second Waldgeist on the 3/1 to 7/2 mark. The rest of the field seems to be made up of whatever the O'Brien B Team will consist of such as Capri, Douglas MacArthur etc.

There's a school of thought that Cracksman didn't have the best of things at Epsom and that he'll come on a ton for his Epsom run. There's not much wrong with that in theory apart from the fact that he was very well placed throughout the race. As an out and out galloper without much of a turn of foot he should have all the time in the world to hit top gear at the Curragh

Wings Of Eagles was simply flying at the end of the Epsom Derby and unless Epsom was a fluke I can't see how he wouldn't be able to hold Cracksman again. He's a fair price because of the disbelief his 40/1 Epsom win caused.

Waldgeist has been crying out for a trip, his 2nd in the French Derby lacks something in the form book compared to the Epsom form. Some wrongly think he was outstayed in the French Derby, he was instead outsped in the sprint to the line. His owner has a bee in his bonnet about the French Derby since his Hurricane Run was outsped by Shamardal there, so much did it pee him off that he bred Lope De Vega from Shamardal as a byproduct of his obsession with the result. In Waldgeist's 2yo Gp 1 win over 10f it took him a fair while to get into top gear, when he did take off he relished the stamina challenge and left his field behind quickly.

It's probably wishful thinking but I can see Waldgeist emulating Hurricane Run who took the Irish Derby after finishing 2nd in the Jockey Club. I hope that stepping up to 12f will see Waldgeist use his considerable turn of foot and likely stamina to take this prize back to France.

Francie Barrett

Waldgeist for me as well for exactly the same reasons as yourself but with a small saver on Capri as well

PM me nudes

With a more conservative ride I can see Douglas Macarthur running a huge race

But Wings Of Eagles should be clear fav

EICVD

Cracksman for me

tryfix

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Waldgeist for me as well for exactly the same reasons as yourself but with a small saver on Capri as well

I think I just have the idea of Waldgeist doing a Hurricane Run imprinted in my brain rather than an actual belief in the horse itself.

He looks quite small to me but has great acceleration when he goes for it. If it wasn't for his pedigree DI 0.49 and connections I'd dismiss him as a prospect to take on the fine specimens that Wings Of Eagles and Cracksman etc are.

I'd be in no rush to back him ante-post as he's not great value and there surely will be a sustained move for one of the big two which will prop up his price.

Slattsy

Ground will be soft anyway. Might not be much good in it going by the forecast.

French thing for me also.

Maybe one of O'Briens at a price, something will attempt to make all and hang on in there for a place. There's always one!

WickIow Brave

Slattsy wrote: »

Ground will be soft anyway. Might not be much good in it going by the forecast.

French thing for me also.

Maybe one of O'Briens at a price, something will attempt to make all and hang on in there for a place. There's always one!

This is my line of thinking, Waldgeist is my winner but I'm tempted by a Ballydoyle outsider. Capri will appreciate the soft ground and I think Venice Beach is better than he showed at Epsom.

Earendil

Waiting for Aidan to give us the nod for The Anvil..:pac:

CheltenhamJ

Will we get 8 for ew betting ???

tryfix

I see Cracksman is now as big as 100/30, there must be a big doubt that he'll be let run, Gosden has a habit of pulling them if the ground is any way wrong at all for them.

Being a Son of Frankel I'd have thought that he should be well able for soft ground, but if the Racing Post Stats page is right Frankel's runners have a disastrous 1 win from 62 runs on Soft ground :eek:

diomed

I go for Waldgeist, such a nice name (forest spirit).
He has run on right turning, easy bend courses..
Wings Of Eagles and Cracksman have run on tight turning left handed courses, and run well in a fast ground Derby.

I was in Newbridge yesterday and there was plenty of rain, but I think the ground will be good for the race.

Walgeist's dam ran well on soft and heavy, but poorly on good.
More rain needed. I don't think there will be enough for soft ground.

tryfix

CheltenhamJ wrote: »

Will we get 8 for ew betting ???

Wings Of Eagles is, along with Capri, Douglas Macarthur, Taj Mahal and The Anvil, one of five Ballydoyle representatives in this year's renewal.

British hopes rest upon the shoulders of the John Gosden-trained Cracksman, who was just a length behind Wings Of Eagles when third at Epsom.

Gosden, who broke his Irish Derby duck with Jack Hobbs in 2015, was quick to snap up the services of jockey Pat Smullen to replace the sidelined Frankie Dettori.

The Jim Bolger-trained Dubai Sand and Grandee from Jessica Harrington's stable make up the home team.

http://www.irishracing.com/news?headline=Wings-To-Face-Eight-In-Irish-Derby&prid=183395&prt=L


Well there's 9 left in at the moment.

longshotvalue

Earendil wrote: »

Waiting for Aidan to give us the nod for The Anvil..:pac:

I was all over Yukatan for this but he isnt going. Ive backed Douglas already at 16/1 and he is still 14/1. Thats still value but its a bit underwhelming and i dont really see anything silly happening with that field. Douglas could win if he races more normally but id fear it would be much better for coolmore if the epson derby winner won here, so they may go mad with him again.

tryfix

Well that was a bit strange, Capri was a much sharper horse today than before and Cracksman just failed again but ran very well and WOE didn't disgrace himself unlike Waldgeist who was quite pathetic hanging around the back and not good enough to do so.

Harry Angstrom

tryfix wrote: »

Well that was a bit strange, Capri was a much sharper horse today than before and Cracksman just failed again but ran very well and WOE didn't disgrace himself unlike Waldgeist who was quite pathetic hanging around the back and not good enough to do so.

They're all much of a muchness.

BumperD

World class Beggy didn't even get a ride today. Weird

diomed

It will be interesting to see how the 3yos go when they meet older horses.
Three Derbys ended in crowd finishes.
How about a raffle to pick the top 3yo?

Mgoraf

A very average bunch I'd say. Be surprised if any of the middle distance 3 yos do anything in open company

Harry Angstrom

diomed wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how the 3yos go when they meet older horses.
Three Derbys ended in crowd finishes.
How about a raffle to pick the top 3yo?

Cliffs Of Moher and Eminent will be the first to test the water in next week's Eclipse. I wouldn't be rushing to back either of them.

Francie Barrett

Pat Smullen is undoubtedly one of the top flat riders out there, but he did himself a disservice with the ride today. Look at where he came from to how he finished, for me his mount was the best horse of the day.

akelly02

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Pat Smullen is undoubtedly one of the top flat riders out there, but he did himself a disservice with the ride today. Look at where he came from to how he finished, for me his mount was the best horse of the day.

I dread him and I'm from near rhode

Harry Angstrom

Strange ride alright. All the horse does is stay. Maybe Smullen expected the pace to be stronger. With Frankie back on board, 8/1 looks big for the Leger.

tryfix

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

They're all much of a muchness.

True. Seamie grabbed control of the race and outrode the big shots.

Ratings wise I reckon it's even worse than Epsom with Douglas Macarthur OR 111 beaten by 4 1/4 L or about 6 1/2 Lb compared to 4 3/4L at Epsom. I have Cracksman running basically the same 117 OR race as in the Derby with Douglas Macarthur almost the same distance behind him today as in Epsom. Wings of Eagles ran the same race as Cracksman this time and wasn't as suited by the steadier pace today.

Approximately 118 OR for an Irish Derby winner, a new low. You could bunk it up to 120 with Waldgeist 117 going in beaten 2L or 3lb but Waldgeist was poor today and was nowhere near the action to launch his challenge. Today was the first time he wasn't ridden fairly handy.

Slattsy

They look like a poor bunch. Smullen was poor and I'd have lost the rag if I backed it.

I still think Cliffs of Moher (dropping back in trip next weekend) beats them all if they raced again.

tryfix

http://www.irishracing.com


Bunch finish!

Francie Barrett

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Strange ride alright. All the horse does is stay. Maybe Smullen expected the pace to be stronger. With Frankie back on board, 8/1 looks big for the Leger.

That's my take out from the race.

madmoose

How about Cracksman for the King George, he is 12/1. He would get over 8lbs from Highland Reel and i think he would be well suited by the track at least.

Still think WOE for the Leger and Venice Beach who is 25/1.

akelly02

madmoose wrote: »

How about Cracksman for the King George, he is 12/1. He would get over 8lbs from Highland Reel and i think he would be well suited by the track at least.

Still think WOE for the Leger and Venice Beach who is 25/1.

I can't see anything getting past that highland reel he never knows when he's bet

longshotvalue

akelly02 wrote: »

I can't see anything getting past that highland reel he never knows when he's bet

Highland reel looks like he wont loose again at the moment.

Wins King George and Arc and retires to stud. Coolmore have been looking for a stallion replacement all over the place and he has been there all the time.

Kauto

aidankkk wrote: »

Highland reel looks like he wont loose again at the moment.

Wins King George and Arc and retires to stud. Coolmore have been looking for a stallion replacement all over the place and he has been there all the time.

They have been looking for a replacement but Highland Reel certainly isn't that. Great racehorse but they won't be pinning any hopes on him as a stallion. They don't need any more of the Northern Dancer line.

Slattsy

Wings of Eagles retired.

Reportedly sustained an injury in yesterday's race.

Hmmmm..

tryfix

Slattsy wrote: »

Wings of Eagles retired.

Reportedly sustained an injury in yesterday's race.

Hmmmm..

Hmm indeed, but in fairness he'd hardly have seen the Irish Derby if they'd wanted to cover up an Epsom fluke and it would also confirm that his lack of sparkle yesterday wasn't down to some improvement in Cracksman's form since Epsom.

Wings Of Eagles has been retired after suffering a career-ending injury in the Dubai Duty Free Irish Derby on Saturday.

A statement issued by Coolmore to Press Association Sport read: "Epsom Derby winner Wings Of Eagles was found to be lame this morning after running in the Dubai Duty Free Irish Derby at the Curragh yesterday.

"He was examined today in his box in Ballydoyle by the attending veterinary surgeon who diagnosed a fracture of his left front sesamoid.

"Sadly this is a career-ending injury."

http://www.irishracing.com/news?headline=Wings-Of-Eagles-Retired-After-Injury&prid=183451&prt=L

Harry Angstrom

One for the Coolmore list of National Hunt stallions.

tryfix

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

One for the Coolmore list of National Hunt stallions.

Maybe 2 for the price of 1 as Capri is hardly likely to be a Pegasus

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

tryfix

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The big clash of the generations will be next weekend, Cliffs Of Moher looks to be a potentially 120 + horse over shorter than the Derby trip and the gallop reports about Eminent since the Derby are very flattering.

If they are beaten by the likes of Decorated Knight and Ulysses then the classic crop will be woeful.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Harry Angstrom

Eclipse betting is all over the place. Highland Reel is as short as 9/2 and as long as 9/1. Barney Roy is a general 4/1 shot despite being a son of Excelebration. Even Churchill is quoted in the betting as short as 8/1, with Cliffs Of Moher general favourite. Mess of a race as far as ante post betting is concerned.

tryfix

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I did say potentially.

Before he ran out of steam he looked to be a few pound superior to the bunch he finished upsides in the Derby.

That'd push him towards a theoretical 120 over 10f and when 3yos manage to beat the older horses in something like the Eclipse they tend to get a generous rating.

He still has to go and win his Eclipse but he's likely been trained to improve on his Epsom run as has Eminent.

Gringo180

aidankkk wrote: »

Highland reel looks like he wont loose again at the moment.

Wins King George and Arc and retires to stud. Coolmore have been looking for a stallion replacement all over the place and he has been there all the time.

Highland Reel is very beatable. He came unstuck in a proper race in the Irish Champion Stakes last year. Would have to be a poor Arc for him to win it.

EICVD

Gringo180 wrote: »

Highland Reel is very beatable. He came unstuck in a proper race in the Irish Champion Stakes last year. Would have to be a poor Arc for him to win it.

That just proves how great a race the Irish Champion was last year when Highland Reel just made up the numbers.

Lt Dan

EICVD wrote: »

That just proves how great a race the Irish Champion was last year when Highland Reel just made up the numbers.

The Irish Champions Stakes is an outstanding race, historically. Okay,they have some dud years, but miles better than the British Champions Stakes. Of course, it helps that the race is beautifully held in September, just before the Arc and Breeders Cup.

Delighted to have been there for the past number of years. Last three have been eventful