Landlord trying to deduct from Deposit

ManUnited123

Hi All,

So i vacated the property last week and i had the property cleaned as well after i moved all the stuff out. So the bathrooms were cleaned, the bedrooms were vacuumed and mopped, kitchen was cleaned as well and i thought the apartment was in a suitable and reasonable condition at the time i left.

Landlord visited the apartment next day and notices the following things:

- Fridge was dirty and had a few stains (True i didn't get the fridge cleaned by the cleaner but common a few stains?)
- Dirty Cabinets (Few cabinets had small oil stains but nothing which couldn't be cleaned very easily)
- Some other bits and pieces in the kitchen were not clean (All very minor)
- Dirty Windows

I offered the landlord to have these cleaned by my own cleaner, however before responding back to me, Landlord has already booked a professional cleaner and informed me that he will make deduction from my deposit of 200-300. I feel this is completely out of order as i shouldn't be deducted 200-300 for a few stains which could be cleaned very easily !

Secondly, Landlord mentions the mattress has to be replaced because of a stain on the bed. I am 100% sure that stain was already there on the bed because it's on the underside of the bed and we have never flipped the mattress. However Landlord is adamant that the stain was not there before we moved in and has mentioned that he will need to replace the mattress and will let me know the cost.

Any advice on the above?

Fol20

ManUnited123 wrote: »

Hi All,

So i vacated the property last week and i had the property cleaned as well after i moved all the stuff out. So the bathrooms were cleaned, the bedrooms were vacuumed and mopped, kitchen was cleaned as well and i thought the apartment was in a suitable and reasonable condition at the time i left.

Landlord visited the apartment next day and notices the following things:

- Fridge was dirty and had a few stains (True i didn't get the fridge cleaned by the cleaner but common a few stains?)
- Dirty Cabinets (Few cabinets had small oil stains but nothing which couldn't be cleaned very easily)
- Some other bits and pieces in the kitchen were not clean (All very minor)
- Dirty Windows

I offered the landlord to have these cleaned by my own cleaner, however before responding back to me, Landlord has already booked a professional cleaner and informed me that he will make deduction from my deposit of 200-300. I feel this is completely out of order as i shouldn't be deducted 200-300 for a few stains which could be cleaned very easily !

Secondly, Landlord mentions the mattress has to be replaced because of a stain on the bed. I am 100% sure that stain was already there on the bed because it's on the underside of the bed and we have never flipped the mattress. However Landlord is adamant that the stain was not there before we moved in and has mentioned that he will need to replace the mattress and will let me know the cost.

Any advice on the above?

Speaking from a ll point of view, 2-300 to clean a house sounds like a lot. 4 or 5 hours of work does not equate to 2-300. Of your offering to pay someone to clean the suspect areas. I would have accepted that no problem.

stains can be a bit of a no no but I always thought it's down to wear and tear with beds because people sweat a lot. If he he taking money from your deposit, he needs to show you receipts of all of that as well.

ManUnited123

Fol20 wrote: »

Speaking from a ll point of view, 2-300 to clean a house sounds like a lot. 4 or 5 hours of work does not equate to 2-300. Of your offering to pay someone to clean the suspect areas. I would have accepted that no problem.

stains can be a bit of a no no but I always thought it's down to wear and tear with beds because people sweat a lot. If he he taking money from your deposit, he needs to show you receipts of all of that as well.

The stain on the bed is a maroon/red colored stain. It was on the underside of the bed but i didn't flip the bed to check when i moved in so i didn't notify the Landlord at the time. I only became aware of it very recently when i was packing my stuff to move out.

What are my options in case Landlord makes unfair deduction from the deposit?

beauf

Just appeal to the PRTB. Take loads of Photos.

The LL sounds like they do this automatically.

wordofwarning

So you moved out of a house after half-assed cleaning it, which you admit. The landlord got in a professional cleaner, as he is entitled to do. Yet you are not happy? Maybe next time you move out, you will consider cleaning the property entirely rather than leaving 'easy to clean' stains that you were expecting the landlord to clean. When you move out you should leave the property spotless. You should not annoyed when the landlord does not want to clean up what you were not bothered to do.

My suggestion is buy a mattress protector for your new place. Maybe go halfs on the cost of the mattress.

But IMO a professional cleaning is totally in order.

ManUnited123

wordofwarning wrote: »

So you moved out of a house after half-assed cleaning it, which you admit. The landlord got in a professional cleaner, as he is entitled to do. Yet you are not happy? Maybe next time you move out, you will consider cleaning the property entirely rather than leaving 'easy to clean' stains that you were expecting the landlord to clean. When you move out you should leave the property spotless. You should not annoyed when the landlord does not want to clean up what you were not bothered to do.

My suggestion is buy a mattress protector for your new place. Maybe go halfs on the cost of the mattress.

But IMO a professional cleaning is totally in order.

The landlord is well and truly entitled to get a professional cleaner but should only deduct cost for cleaning the areas he's not satisfied with. If the only area is the kitchen which has a few dirty cabinets, i should be only charged for the cleaning of "those" cabinets not the whole apartment. I got the whole apartment already cleaned myself !


Thanks for the advice on buying the mattress protector. If the mattress is stained, surely there would be a stain on any one of the bed sheets as well so it would've come to my attention? So not sure how buying a mattress protector can help me in getting rid of a stain which was already there? :rolleyes:

wordofwarning

ManUnited123 wrote: »

I got the whole apartment already cleaned myself !

Which is irrelevant as the cleaner did a poor job of it. If I was your landlord and seen such a poor job of your 'cleaner' the first time. Why would I want them to 'clean' it again? Maybe suggest a hassle.com person for a few hours. You do admit the job was substandard.

ManUnited123 wrote: »

If the mattress is stained, surely there would be a stain on any one of the bed sheets as well so it would've come to my attention?

A coffee/wine stain would come out of your bedsheets, but not your mattress.

If the stain was there when you moved in, you raised it with the landlord at the time?

beauf

Take photos. Let the PRTB decide.

ManUnited123

wordofwarning wrote: »

Which is irrelevant as the cleaner did a poor job of it. If I was your landlord and seen such a poor job of your 'cleaner' the first time. Why would I want them to 'clean' it again? Maybe suggest a hassle.com person for a few hours. You do admit the job was substandard.



A coffee/wine stain would come out of your bedsheets, but not your mattress.

If the stain was there when you moved in, you raised it with the landlord at the time?

The cleaner did not clean some parts of the kitchen as we were in the process of moving our stuff out of the cabinets but most of it was cleaned so no, the cleaner did NOT do a poor job, he just didn't get to that area and considering how it was only a few cabinets i didn't pay much attention to it myself as i didn't expect to be charged 200-300 euros for cleaning a few cabinets. They weren't exactly spotless when i moved in to be honest but that's hard to argue and prove as i don't have the pictures from when i moved in as i considered it to be just too minor to worry about !

Maybe i didn't mention it in my posts above, but the stain was on the "underside" of the mattress. I did not flip the mattress to see if there was any stain when i moved in. I only noticed it when i moved out and we never flipped the mattress during our time so there's no chance that stain was from us.

Yourself isit

wordofwarning wrote: »

So you moved out of a house after half-assed cleaning it, which you admit. The landlord got in a professional cleaner, as he is entitled to do. Yet you are not happy? Maybe next time you move out, you will consider cleaning the property entirely rather than leaving 'easy to clean' stains that you were expecting the landlord to clean. When you move out you should leave the property spotless. You should not annoyed when the landlord does not want to clean up what you were not bothered to do.

My suggestion is buy a mattress protector for your new place. Maybe go halfs on the cost of the mattress.

But IMO a professional cleaning is totally in order.

Sounds like normal wear and tear to me. If the landlord wants to clean to a professional standards that's his business.

bigpink

Ask for a vat receipt from his cleaner

beauf

Doesn't matter. The PRTB is likely to return some of the money charged. You've nothing to lose.

gizmo81

Telephone Mediation with the RTB is free of charge.

Also at the inspection and on move in day, go through the property like a CSI. Send a nice email to Landlord/Agent with the photos attached so there can be no dispute.

On vacating the property, photos and videos with the days paper in shot.

The onus will be on the landlord to prove beyond normal wear and tear, and also provide any invoices associated.

Also, establish if the cleaner is contracted by the landlord/agent? Independent cleaners will charge way less, grab a couple of quotes for your case.

dubrov

Just appeal to the RTB and you will get your full deposit back.
The landlord is entitled to get a professional cleaner in at his own expense.  
If the place was as you say it is (normal wear and tear type issues), he hasn't a hope of keeping any of your deposit.
A lot of landlords seem to chance their arms with this at the end of a tenancy

Bushmanpm

How can anybody classify stains and dirt as "wear and tear"?
Would YOU want to move into a dirty, uncleaned property? They are a landlord, not your mother, why should they be expected to clean up your mess?
But equally though, tell the landlord you want to see a genuine receipt for the cleaning before you accept the deduction from the deposit or else you'll go to the RTB.

dubrov

In fairness, the stains appear very minor that could be all cleaned up with less than 30 minutes work.
200-300 deposit retention is completely unreasonable. 
The landlord is clearly trying to pass on the cost of a deep clean to the tenant which they cannot do..

4ensic15

ManUnited123 wrote: »

Hi All,



- Fridge was dirty and had a few stains (True i didn't get the fridge cleaned by the cleaner but common a few stains?)

Typical Irishman "Shur it'll do"

ManUnited123 wrote: »

Hi All,
- Dirty Cabinets (Few cabinets had small oil stains but nothing which couldn't be cleaned very easily)

If it was so easy why did you leave it foir someone else?

ManUnited123 wrote: »

Hi All,
- Some other bits and pieces in the kitchen were not clean (All very minor)

Shu it'll do!

ManUnited123 wrote: »

Hi All,
- Dirty Windows

That's great, leave it for someone else.
?[/QUOTE]


If you are too lazy and ill mannered to leave the place like that, you cannot complain about the bill.

beauf

I think you are missing the point that the OP offered clean all the outstanding stuff when pointed out.

If the LL had given the OP time to fix the issue, then fair enough. But they were so very quick with the cleaning bill, you can't help but think its standard operating practice.

Lux23

Bring a case to the RTB - the landlord is chancing his arm trying to get you to pay for a deep clean.

SuperS54

As already pointed out, ask for receipts for every deduction the landlord wants to make. Do you have a receipt for your cleaner? As an aside, what did they charge compared to the landlords estimate?

Regarding the mattress, was it new when you moved in? How long did you live there for? Assuming the stain cannot be cleaned, and that would surprise me when using a 300 euro professional cleaner, surely you should only be responsible with the replacement cost of an equivalent mattress less depreciation due to it's age.

martingriff

ManUnited123 wrote: »

wordofwarning wrote: »

Which is irrelevant as the cleaner did a poor job of it. If I was your landlord and seen such a poor job of your 'cleaner' the first time. Why would I want them to 'clean' it again? Maybe suggest a hassle.com person for a few hours. You do admit the job was substandard.



A coffee/wine stain would come out of your bedsheets, but not your mattress.

If the stain was there when you moved in, you raised it with the landlord at the time?

The cleaner did not clean some parts of the kitchen as we were in the process of moving our stuff out of the cabinets but most of it was cleaned so no, the cleaner did NOT do a poor job, he just didn't get to that area and considering how it was only a few cabinets i didn't pay much attention to it myself as i didn't expect to be charged 200-300 euros for cleaning a few cabinets. They weren't exactly spotless when i moved in to be honest but that's hard to argue and prove as i don't have the pictures from when i moved in as i considered it to be just too minor to worry about !

Maybe i didn't mention it in my posts above, but the stain was on the "underside" of the mattress. I did not flip the mattress to see if there was any stain when i moved in. I only noticed it when i moved out and we never flipped the mattress during our time so there's no chance that stain was from us.

Sorry OP but yes the cleaning was not done very well be that you told the cleaner do not worry about there or the cleaner never went back when area was free to clean. As per your OP fridge not cleaned, windows not cleaned and cupboards not cleaned. That is not a proper job done. I bet if you were renting a place and those things were not done in the place you would not be very happy. It is not wear an tear they are stains. If they were easy you should have had them finished before you left my guess is you forgot which can happen.

That been said I agree with a lot here that the amount been taken is steep and you should query and get the bills for what was to be done and only those he pointed out. Is there any limit or guidelines on who or what a landlord can use to clean

The mattress is a bit he said she said but I tend to believe you and you may need to go to get that sorted

martingriff

ManUnited123 wrote: »

wordofwarning wrote: »

Which is irrelevant as the cleaner did a poor job of it. If I was your landlord and seen such a poor job of your 'cleaner' the first time. Why would I want them to 'clean' it again? Maybe suggest a hassle.com person for a few hours. You do admit the job was substandard.



A coffee/wine stain would come out of your bedsheets, but not your mattress.

If the stain was there when you moved in, you raised it with the landlord at the time?

The cleaner did not clean some parts of the kitchen as we were in the process of moving our stuff out of the cabinets but most of it was cleaned so no, the cleaner did NOT do a poor job, he just didn't get to that area and considering how it was only a few cabinets i didn't pay much attention to it myself as i didn't expect to be charged 200-300 euros for cleaning a few cabinets. They weren't exactly spotless when i moved in to be honest but that's hard to argue and prove as i don't have the pictures from when i moved in as i considered it to be just too minor to worry about !

Maybe i didn't mention it in my posts above, but the stain was on the "underside" of the mattress. I did not flip the mattress to see if there was any stain when i moved in. I only noticed it when i moved out and we never flipped the mattress during our time so there's no chance that stain was from us.

Sorry OP but yes the cleaning was not done very well be that you told the cleaner do not worry about there or the cleaner never went back when area was free to clean. As per your OP fridge not cleaned, windows not cleaned and cupboards not cleaned. That is not a proper job done. I bet if you were renting a place and those things were not done in the place you would not be very happy. It is not wear an tear they are stains. If they were easy you should have had them finished before you left my guess is you forgot which can happen.

That been said I agree with a lot here that the amount been taken is steep and you should query and get the bills for what was to be done and only those he pointed out. Is there any limit or guidelines on who or what a landlord can use to clean

The mattress is a bit he said she said but I tend to believe you and you may need to go to get that sorted

beauf

The OP moved out. Got the place cleaned by someone else.
They probably didn't inspect it before the the LL did.

Regardless if you are going to fine someone 300 you should give them a chance to fix any problems. If you don't the PRTB will take a dim view. The LL could end up being out of pocket more then they expect.

Most LL will clean and sometimes paint a place before letting it out again. To maximize the rent and quality of tenant.

Some don't they will just let it out as is, and charge for cleaning they don't do. Not list items like damage, stains to the new client, so they can be caught for it at the end of the tenancy.

Bad practice works both ways.

SuperS54

SuperS54 wrote: »

As already pointed out, ask for receipts for every deduction the landlord wants to make. Do you have a receipt for your cleaner? As an aside, what did they charge compared to the landlords estimate?

Most cleaners work cash in hand so extremely doubtful there will be any receipts.

beauf

Well its a trick ins't it.

Not listing stained/damaged items on the new lease. (Matresses are very often stained). I've even seen a bed base with a 2ft hole in the center.
So if the tenant doesn't spot it, they are stuffed. Though the PRTB will probably consider how long the lease, the age of the mattresses etc.
Ditto cleaning. Asking the LL for the receipts usually catches though out who don't actually get the place cleaned and charge for it.

Its why rules elsewhere make more sense. you rend a bare unfurnished apartment, newly painted. you hand it back the the same. Removes about 80% of disputes.

awec

Anthony Elegant Cruiser wrote: »

Most cleaners work cash in hand so extremely doubtful there will be any receipts.

If the landlord is using a cleaner that won't give a receipt that is his problem, not the OPs. I'd be amazed if they are stupid enough to do that though.

awec

awec wrote: »

If the landlord is using a cleaner that won't give a receipt that is his problem, not the OPs. I'd be amazed if they are stupid enough to do that though.

I was referring to the house cleaner the op used, which the poster I replied to was asking about.

The_Conductor

For the record- how on earth does anyone imagine oil stains are 'normal wear and tear'?

dubrov

The_Conductor wrote:

For the record- how on earth does anyone imagine oil stains are 'normal wear and tear'?

Maybe not wear and tear but given they can be cleaned pretty easily it is pretty minor.

Some landlords expect the property to be returned as if no one had ever lived there.

Bushmanpm

dubrov wrote:

Some landlords expect the property to be returned as if no one had ever lived there.

....or maybe returned in the condition it was let in originally? Would you want to move into a dirty property?

beauf

Bushmanpm wrote: »

....or maybe returned in the condition it was let in originally? Would you want to move into a dirty property?

There's a difference between original condition. And dirty.

There's also a difference between a few bits that were missed and truly dirty.

If someone doesn't know that, then they have been very lucky or have no experience.

spaceHopper

The LL should have allowed you resonable time to come back and clean the place.

At this point I'd go halfs on the cleaning, it's not your fault he over paid.

Tell him you mattress is as you found it. FYI a good double is about 200 + 40 to take away the old one. You should see most of your deposit.

Tell him you aren't accepting responsibility for the mattress, give him an AC number to pay into and see what happens. If he made a small deduction then leave it. If he's taken to much email him asking for the money or receipts to prove he spent it. Tell him the next step is the RTB

ManUnited123

All sorted. I told him i would contact the RTB, he didn't reply to me then and i went on RTB's website and filed a dispute. Meanwhile he replied back to me that okay fine i'll return your full deposit, give me your account details !!!!

FFS.. He was indeed trying to pull a quick one here. If i had budged, he was ready to take away 500 from my deposit but now he's taking nothing !

Browney7

ManUnited123 wrote: »

All sorted. I told him i would contact the RTB, he didn't reply to me then and i went on RTB's website and filed a dispute. Meanwhile he replied back to me that okay fine i'll return your full deposit, give me your account details !!!!

FFS.. He was indeed trying to pull a quick one here. If i had budged, he was ready to take away 500 from my deposit but now he's taking nothing !

And another tenancy ends with no deposit dispute. Good for the statistics.

Surprising he didn't take you up on the offer to go back and clean the kitchen cabinets in fairness. If you were willing to do it why not get you to do it?

davo10

ManUnited123 wrote: »

FFS.. He was indeed trying to pull a quick one here. If i had budged, he was ready to take away 500 from my deposit but now he's taking nothing !

I suspect you got lucky that the LL didn't get a receipt from the cleaner, probably paid cash. You left the place dirty so you also tried to pull a quick one on the LL, neither side is blameless here.

The_Conductor

spaceHopper wrote: »

The LL should have allowed you resonable time to come back and clean the place.

Cognisant of the fact that the dispute is now resolved- why do you reckon the landlord should allow the tenant back into the property to clean it, after the tenancy has ended?

Once the tenant has vacated the property, and is no longer paying rent- they no longer should have access to the property- without any exception.

I'm not sure where you're coming from- with your suggestion that the landlord should allow a tenant (any tenant) back in to do proper cleaning- once they've left?

Ms Doubtfire1

The_Conductor wrote: »

Cognisant of the fact that the dispute is now resolved- why do you reckon the landlord should allow the tenant back into the property to clean it, after the tenancy has ended?

Once the tenant has vacated the property, and is no longer paying rent- they no longer should have access to the property- without any exception.

I'm not sure where you're coming from- with your suggestion that the landlord should allow a tenant (any tenant) back in to do proper cleaning- once they've left?

I don't see what would be wrong with that? If it's in agreement with both, why not?

dubrov

davo10 wrote:

I suspect you got lucky that the LL didn't get a receipt from the cleaner, probably paid cash. You left the place dirty so you also tried to pull a quick one on the LL, neither side is blameless here.

It doesn't matter. He wouldn't have been able to charge 2-300 euro anyway.

That would cover an entire deep clean of the place which the tenant is not responsible for

ManUnited123

davo10 wrote: »

I suspect you got lucky that the LL didn't get a receipt from the cleaner, probably paid cash. You left the place dirty so you also tried to pull a quick one on the LL, neither side is blameless here.

He got receipt from the cleaner and it was a full deep clean of the whole apartment costing €200 whereas he had only complained about the kitchen cabinets. He was most likely using that as an excuse to get the whole apartment deep cleaned from the deposit.

I didn't leave the place dirty, it was just a few cabinets which were. And if i show you the pictures, you'd see they weren't that dirty which would warrant a deep clean of the whole apartment !

The_Conductor

ManUnited123 wrote: »

He got receipt from the cleaner and it was a full deep clean of the whole apartment costing €200 whereas he had only complained about the kitchen cabinets. He was most likely using that as an excuse to get the whole apartment deep cleaned from the deposit.

I didn't leave the place dirty, it was just a few cabinets which were. And if i show you the pictures, you'd see they weren't that dirty which would warrant a deep clean of the whole apartment !

Anyhow- its a tax deductible expense for the landlord.
As all is well that ends well- I propose to close the thread.