How low do you graze your paddocks

cacs

I have a paddock system in place. On average the cattle do 3-4 days per paddock. Usually the last day I hold them in the paddock to clean it out. I know when the paddock is done as it usually goes from green to a greenie yellow. When we got heavy rain a couple of weeks ago I moved the cattle out maybe a day or so earlier to avoid poaching. My point is these paddocks have recovered an awful better than paddocks I wait to be cleaned out. What's your thoughts. I know Teagasc say 4 cm

pedigree 6

This link will explain it better than I can post plus it's faster than typing it out.:pac:

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/understanding-how-perennial-ryegrass-grows-191678

You're either grazing too low or allowing the grass get too long before grazing.

Graze at 3 leaves. Don't wait for the fourth leaf and white butts.

cacs

pedigree 6 wrote: »

This link will explain it better than I can post plus it's faster than typing it out.:pac:

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/understanding-how-perennial-ryegrass-grows-191678

You're either grazing too low or allowing the grass get too long before grazing.

Graze at 3 leaves. Don't wait for the fourth leaf and white butts.

Brilliant artical thanks

The part time boy

pedigree 6 wrote: »

You're either grazing too low or allowing the grass get too long before grazing.

I been doing both this year . Very frustrating . All because I spend too long grazing in sillage ground at start of the year and it's killed me every sense .

Highlight should have taken out bails but most my grazing ground does not suit sillage .

Every year a learning year ! Won't make the mistake of grazing too late next year

If your grazing too low due to low covers what can you do. If I move them when they get to 4cm I be spiking around and total f**ked

pedigree 6

The part time boy wrote: »

If your grazing too low due to low covers what can you do. If I move them when they get to 4cm I be spiking around and total f**ked

But sure then all you do is stretch out your rotation a bit longer by supplementing with extra forage or concentrate or applying extra fertiliser maybe to get those longer covers back into the rotation.

The part time boy

pedigree 6 wrote: »

The part time boy wrote: »

If your grazing too low due to low covers what can you do. If I move them when they get to 4cm I be spiking around and total f**ked

But sure then all you do stretch out your rotation a bit longer by supplementing with extra forage or concentrate or applying extra fertiliser maybe to get those longer covers back into the rotation.

If I feed extra supplements won't they steal eat the grass below 4 cm while between them eating nuts or sillage ?

pedigree 6

The part time boy wrote: »

If I feed extra supplements won't they steal eat the grass below 4 cm while between them eating nuts or sillage ?

Depends on how long you leave them in the paddock or that bit of ground.

You could graze them for 3 hours in a paddock if you wanted to.:pac:

The part time boy

Ya that could work if I still had dairy cows. Not as easy with suckler though

pedigree 6

The part time boy wrote: »

Ya that could work if I still had dairy cows. Not as easy with suckler though

I know what you're saying but generally if you can slow them down a bit on the first few paddocks by feeding silage etc. It lets the paddocks ahead get that bit further ahead in quantity of grass and you won't have the problem of worrying about them eating those paddocks too low.
Could go the opposite handy enough though and then have to use that bit of machinery that should only be used for thistles "The Topper" and end up shattering the grass plant and be back where you started in the first place with low covers and poor regrowth.:(

patsy_mccabe

This year due to more stock and less growth, I'm under serious pressure to keep grass ahead of them. It's not easy to manage grass, especially with fragmented farms and the crazy weather we are getting in recent years.

Anyone use a Teagasc Sward Stick. Seems simple to use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNcn-YqQV0E

Keepgrowing

Would grass measuring be an option?
I tells you weekly what grass you have and will identify surplus or deficit in plenty of time thus ensuring top quality grass at all times.

Sam Kade

I let the cows graze them

yosemitesam1

cathal irwin wrote: »

I have a paddock system in place. On average the cattle do 3-4 days per paddock. Usually the last day I hold them in the paddock to clean it out. I know when the paddock is done as it usually goes from green to a greenie yellow. When we got heavy rain a couple of weeks ago I moved the cattle out maybe a day or so earlier to avoid poaching. My point is these paddocks have recovered an awful better than paddocks I wait to be cleaned out. What's your thoughts. I know Teagasc say 4 cm

Has it been reseeded recently and does it get much fert? Old grass not getting fert would come back better if not grazed as tight

cacs

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Has it been reseeded recently and does it get much fert? Old grass not getting fert would come back better if not grazed as tight

Old old grass with a good shot of fertiliser

yosemitesam1

cathal irwin wrote: »

Old old grass with a good shot of fertiliser

Don't follow the teagasc advice too closely so, a lot of the other grasses don't like being grazed very hard.

pedigree 6

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Don't follow the teagasc advice too closely so, a lot of the other grasses don't like being grazed very hard.

Surely if it's ryegrass though it needs to be grazed fairly well?

I've some ryegrass in a few paddocks that must have been sowed in the 80's.
It has the purple base on the plant as well. But if you didn't keep it grazed fairly right you would be letting Cocksfoot or Yorkshire Fog back into the sward.

It wouldn't be in a mile of the new varieties for spring growth. But in the summer it doesn't head out like the new varieties will. (It's nearly impossible i'd say to get it to head out). But it's nice to have these paddocks some times in the summer with fresh grass when all the rest are trying to head out at the same time. I'm still in two minds sometimes though whether to reseed them or not.
But for the moment I think they have their place.

yosemitesam1

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Surely if it's ryegrass though it needs to be grazed fairly well?

I've some ryegrass in a few paddocks that must have been sowed in the 80's.
It has the purple base on the plant as well. But if you didn't keep it grazed fairly right you would be letting Cocksfoot or Yorkshire Fog back into the sward.

It wouldn't be in a mile of the new varieties for spring growth. But in the summer it doesn't head out like the new varieties will. (It's nearly impossible i'd say to get it to head out). But it's nice to have these paddocks some times in the summer with fresh grass when all the rest are trying to head out at the same time. I'm still in two minds sometimes though whether to reseed them or not.
But for the moment I think they have their place.

I'm assuming that it's not really dominated by ryegrass, old old grass does sound fairly old!

Would be fairly sceptical of whether the newest varieties are any improvement on the older ones.

Tomjim

is there a similar article for old grasses who are using a paddock system

eg I have a paddock system set up but there is no ground reseeded

cacs

Tomjim wrote: »

is there a similar article for old grasses who are using a paddock system

eg I have a paddock system set up but there is no ground reseeded

I would say the grasses on these fields are 50 years plus

cute geoge

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

I'm assuming that it's not really dominated by ryegrass, old old grass does sound fairly old!

Would be fairly sceptical of whether the newest varieties are any improvement on the older ones.

Why do you think the newer varieties grass seed are no improvement on the old grass
I think the biggest problem in old leys is that it takes grass a lot longer to grow but like ye say some old leys dont tend to head out

yosemitesam1

cute geoge wrote: »

Why do you think the newer varieties grass seed are no improvement on the old grass
I think the biggest problem in old leys is that it takes grass a lot longer to grow but like ye say some old leys dont tend to head out

Supposedly the rate of genetic gain is 0.2-0.5% so compared to 50 years ago we should have 10-25% higher yields. But in the 60's cutting trials were capable of giving 10-12t averages for strains that hadn't much if any breeding behind them. The average yield in the department recommended list is about 11t so I don't see where these gains are.
There was a study done in america showing that since around 1980, 30% of the yield increase in maize was purely down to more light reaching the plant due to less air polution, more parts of the increase were due to management etc I don't think we would be much different either so dont think modern varieties are worth paying extra for when the older ones down 20 years ago are still capable of similar yields while persisting longer.

Tomjim

this is very interesting

Why are people always keen to re-seed ground given the cost involved

pedigree 6

Tomjim wrote: »

this is very interesting

Why are people always keen to re-seed ground given the cost involved

A - it can be handier to start again with a clean slate as such if the pasture has become full of weeds and scutch grass and

B - New varieties now grow earlier in the season and give bigger bulks for grazing and silage.

CloughCasey1

Finding it hard to get good clean out on paddocks here. Even now first graze after topping and they are would rather eat roots than clean out. There is 20% grass not touched and if not topped will be left after next rotation its a right PITH. Im going to turn up the electric fence to max and see how it goes. Either that or top 2 days before change due anymore which would be a worse PITH.

CloughCasey1

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Finding it hard to get good clean out on paddocks here. Even now first graze after topping and they are would rather eat roots than clean out. There is 20% grass not touched and if not topped will be left after next rotation its a right PITH. Im going to turn up the electric fence to max and see how it goes. Either that or top 2 days before change due anymore which would be a worse PITH.

Photo tells story better

yewtree

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Photo tells story better

Lovely bunch of cattle.

i find its the pre grazing cover that gives you the graze out, very hard to get strong covers grazed out cleanly, you could try speeding up the rotation so you would be going into lower covers

_Brian

Surely there is no one answer to the question, land type, altitude and aspect all affect how capable land can be grazed.
There's no point in lads in Leitrim trying to emulate what can be done in the golden vale.

Muckit

This year l made a conscious effort to follow teagasc advise on getting a good graze out during the first rotation.

In fairness with it being the dryest April in years, it was a good year to try it. It was easy hold cattle in a paddock without them rooting it. I could see this being a problem in a wetter spring.

But it made a famous job of the ground for the next round and grass was green to the butt.

I am still seeing the benefits now. No matter how low you set a topper or mower, it's v hard to get at that dead matt and that's there then for the whole year.

patsy_mccabe

Definately worth grazing tight the first time round. I did that this year but by the time I got to the last field, it was gone too strong. Now I have no grass.
You just can't win sometimes. Great respect for all those dairy guys who seem to master it. On that note, are they any beef farmers grass measuring.

larthehar

Muckit wrote: »

This year l made a conscious effort to follow teagasc advise on getting a good graze out during the first rotation.

In fairness with it being the dryest April in years, it was a good year to try it. It was easy hold cattle in a paddock without them rooting it. I could see this being a problem in a wetter spring.

But it made a famous job of the ground for the next round and grass was green to the butt.

I am still seeing the benefits now. No matter how low you set a topper or mower, it's v hard to get at that dead matt and that's there then for the whole year.

Anyone chain harrow after the first rotation to combat this?

cute geoge

I am grazing every 30 days on old leys grass leys similar to cloughcasey photo above .
I try and never let grass get too stemy by early on by grazing some paddocks with dry cows and now by premowing .
I never premow a full paddock mostly only the last grazing and always keep the stemy part of the paddock for premowing by dividing paddock with poly wire .I would take note of parts of paddock not grazed out cleanly and would premow that section in the next round .
Nice bit of work to keep on top of it ,have often hitched up mower and premowed after bringing cows in for milking and they waiting in the yard .I am stocked over 4 cows/hectare and spreading 25 units of n every grazing

Muckit

larthehar wrote: »

Anyone chain harrow after the first rotation to combat this?

Yes! I actually followed after them with chain harrow. As much to even out ground and spread dung as anything else.

Muckit

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Definately worth grazing tight the first time round. I did that this year but by the time I got to the last field, it was gone too strong. Now I have no grass.
You just can't win sometimes. Great respect for all those dairy guys who seem to master it. On that note, are they any beef farmers grass measuring.

Comparing apples and oranges. If you were going with the spreader every week you'd have grass too! Also easier graze out with dairy cows as they remain at same stocking rate. With beef cattle be it suckler or drystock, calves or stores are always growing and as they do demand increases and so does LU/ha.

CloughCasey1

cute geoge wrote: »

I am grazing every 30 days on old leys grass leys similar to cloughcasey photo above .
I try and never let grass get too stemy by early on by grazing some paddocks with dry cows and now by premowing .
I never premow a full paddock mostly only the last grazing and always keep the stemy part of the paddock for premowing by dividing paddock with poly wire .I would take note of parts of paddock not grazed out cleanly and would premow that section in the next round .
Nice bit of work to keep on top of it ,have often hitched up mower and premowed after bringing cows in for milking and they waiting in the yard .I am stocked over 4 cows/hectare and spreading 25 units of n every grazing

How clean do they finish out after the pre-mowing?

cute geoge

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

How clean do they finish out after the pre-mowing?

I only premow if the grass is dry and the grass is licked .I find premowing if grass is wet there is plenty of it wasted .Example yesterday was a good drying sunny day and i premowed for 3 rounds of strip grazing .Today was misting heavy all day but cows still licked everything .If i premowed that today in the wet the cows would only waste alot of it

cacs

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Photo tells story better

I graze suckers on three four day paddock system and I wish they were grazing out paddocks that low. Anything I did not graze out bare on the first grazing is rough today and the still aren't really going near it

cacs

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Definately worth grazing tight the first time round. I did that this year but by the time I got to the last field, it was gone too strong. Now I have no grass.
You just can't win sometimes. Great respect for all those dairy guys who seem to master it. On that note, are they any beef farmers grass measuring.

Patsy I am the exact same as you. I am tight on grass now huge covers three or weeks ago very light covers now. Getting a bit worried this early to be getting tight.

RobinBanks

cathal irwin wrote: »

Patsy I am the exact same as you. I am tight on grass now huge covers three or weeks ago very light covers now. Getting a bit worried this early to be getting tight.

I am in the exact same situation. 80% of grazing ground is between 4-6cm as a result of taking out paddocks for bales and mowing others. Most of these covered in slurry last week so for the next 2 weeks I will be under pressure and then I will prob be back to the same situation I was in a month ago I.e to much grass. This is my 1st year with paddocks and finding it difficult.

One thing that I will do is feed the surplus bales when the time come in next week to give grass a chance

larthehar

RobinBanks wrote: »

I am in the exact same situation. 80% of grazing ground is between 4-6cm as a result of taking out paddocks for bales and mowing others. Most of these covered in slurry last week so for the next 2 weeks I will be under pressure and then I will prob be back to the same situation I was in a month ago I.e to much grass. This is my 1st year with paddocks and finding it difficult.

One thing that I will do is feed the surplus bales when the time come in next week to give grass a chance

We got caught too, where we made the mistake was letting paddocks get too strong before mowing. Mow when it should be grazed is the lesson learned.
To regain control of the rotations we are thinking of buffer feeding sucklers with silage until the heaviest covers reach 10cm otherwise we will be chasing light covers..
We will have to top others to stop loosing control, have to say though paddock grazing is the job.. 55LU on 10ha since the spring with no need to supplement yet, with better management we wouldn.t have to introduce silage even now!

Mooooo

RobinBanks wrote: »

I am in the exact same situation. 80% of grazing ground is between 4-6cm as a result of taking out paddocks for bales and mowing others. Most of these covered in slurry last week so for the next 2 weeks I will be under pressure and then I will prob be back to the same situation I was in a month ago I.e to much grass. This is my 1st year with paddocks and finding it difficult.

One thing that I will do is feed the surplus bales when the time come in next week to give grass a chance

With grazing ground this time of year slurry would only want to go out after its cut and a light coat at that, no this year that wet spell a few weeks ago delayed cutting for a lot of lads do fellas are tight now alright. If it's all coming back at the same time cut and bale a few even if it looks light or speed up the rotation if you can, put the stock in to lighter covers