Pacing when you're inexperienced

cporto

Hi folks,
I'm 6 weeks into training for my first half marathon (RnR in August), using a Boards graduate training plan (although I'm not a graduate, have never run a marathon). I've gotten to the stage now where the plan calls for some HM pace work, and, well, I don't know what mine should be. I read lots of discussion about this in the marathon novices thread from last year, but not really sure if the same applies to the half distance.
Going off an online calculator (this one - http://www.runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php), somewhere between 1:58-1:59 would be my predicted HM finish time, but I know those calculators can be optimistic for newer runners in particular.
I could just try running the sessions at this pace and see how it feels, but I've read a few logs here from people who were disappointed with race performances and felt it may have been partly due to going at too fast a pace during training (and on race day I suppose), so I don't want that to happen either.
I may be making this more complicated than it needs to be (probably), but would welcome advice from anyone who knows more about than I do (not hard!)

adrian522

Have you run any races recently, if so what distances and what times?
Better to be too conservative than too aggressive in your target pace, as this is a pace you will be trying to maintain for almost 2 hours it should feel fairly easy, certainly not close to flat out.

cporto

I've only run a few races, and I'm not fast!
I ran my first ever 10k yesterday in 53:00 even (apparently - I wouldn't have 100% confidence in the course distance frankly). Last race before that was a 5 mile in 43:16, but this felt very comfortable (dare I say pleasant?) throughout so I should certainly have run it faster, but I struggle with pushing myself in general, which is something I'm nervous about for the half to be honest. I've done a couple of 5k races, and the fastest was 25:45 I think.
I'm female, early 30s, have run on and off for a while but only consistently since January.

Butterbeans

What pace have you been working off up to now? Important to have a pace or goal time in mind when training for a particular race as it would be relevant to keeping your training sessions consistent.
Have you done any 5k, 10k, 10 mile races that you could gauge a half marathon time from( or maybe that's where you got your 1:59 time from)? Gives you a starting point at least, as you're right, these calculators are merely predictions, but show what you are potentially capable of currently give or take, with the right training.
If you are to go with 1:59 as your goal time, try that HM pace (9:05 per mile / 5:39 per Km) in those particular sessions(maybe 2 or 3) and see how you get on. If too fast (struggling to maintain pace), slow it down and change your goal time accordingly. You may find you're well able for it, in which case stick to goal time or aim for a faster time.
With your long slow runs, make sure they are slow (90secs to 2mins slower per mile than race pace). I think this is where many folk go too fast in training, I've done it myself.

cporto

Butterbeans wrote: »

What pace have you been working off up to now? Important to have a pace or goal time in mind when training for a particular race as it would be relevant to keeping your training sessions consistent.
Have you done any 5k, 10k, 10 mile races that you could gauge a half marathon time from( or maybe that's where you got your 1:59 time from)? Gives you a starting point at least, as you're right, these calculators are merely predictions, but show what you are potentially capable of currently give or take, with the right training.
If you are to go with 1:59 as your goal time, try that HM pace (9:05 per mile / 5:39 per Km) in those particular sessions(maybe 2 or 3) and see how you get on. If too fast (struggling to maintain pace), slow it down and change your goal time accordingly. You may find you're well able for it, in which case stick to goal time or aim for a faster time.
With your long slow runs, make sure they are slow (90secs to 2mins slower per mile than race pace). I think this is where many folk go too fast in training, I've done it myself.

Thanks for the advice Butterbeans. I listed my recent times in the post above, and yes, they are what I used to get the 1:58ish predicted finish time.
My LSRs are definitely slow - maybe too slow if anything. But I try to keep my heart rate low on them so that means pace is way down too. I'm hoping that pace starts to get a bit quicker for the same effort over time.

Butterbeans

Given it'll be your first HM, take it easy on the first few miles anyway, easier than race pace, ease into it (as above poster said, much better to be too conservative than be spent after 6/7 miles) - don't let your adrenaline at the start line scupper your race. If you're feeling conformable later in the race you can push it a bit then. I know for my first HM I had a time in mind but mainly just wanted to complete it, I used the time as more of a guideline for pace than sticking rigidly to it. Anyways, you'll be in a much better position to gauge time/pace for your 2nd one :-)
Try using 2hrs as your goal pace, or slightly faster or slower depending on how you find maintaining that pace for your HM pace training sessions.
Best of luck with the training

Testosterscone

cporto wrote: »

Hi folks,
I'm 6 weeks into training for my first half marathon (RnR in August), using a Boards graduate training plan (although I'm not a graduate, have never run a marathon). I've gotten to the stage now where the plan calls for some HM pace work, and, well, I don't know what mine should be. I read lots of discussion about this in the marathon novices thread from last year, but not really sure if the same applies to the half distance.
Going off an online calculator (this one - http://www.runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php), somewhere between 1:58-1:59 would be my predicted HM finish time, but I know those calculators can be optimistic for newer runners in particular.
I could just try running the sessions at this pace and see how it feels, but I've read a few logs here from people who were disappointed with race performances and felt it may have been partly due to going at too fast a pace during training (and on race day I suppose), so I don't want that to happen either.
I may be making this more complicated than it needs to be (probably), but would welcome advice from anyone who knows more about than I do (not hard!)

Presume you are following the 10k-HM plan yes?

How did you find the Threshold paces in the earlier stages?

cporto

Testosterscone wrote: »

Presume you are following the 10k-HM plan yes?

How did you find the Threshold paces in the earlier stages?

Yep that's the one. Which I think I have you to thank for? I'm really enjoying it anyway.
I've found the threshold pace sessions pretty good - challenging but not exhausting, they've felt manageable and have all been within target pace range (which I should stress is slow!) as per the calculator I linked to above.

Testosterscone

cporto wrote: »

Yep that's the one. Which I think I have you to thank for? I'm really enjoying it anyway.
I've found the threshold pace sessions pretty good - challenging but not exhausting, they've felt manageable and have all been within target pace range (which I should stress is slow!) as per the calculator I linked to above.

No problem at all glad you were enjoying it. The HM pace for the session should be near enough to this pace (maybe a 5-10 sec a mile slower but no more) you want to get the right training stimulus from it even if the aerobic conditioning isn't there to sustain the effort for the full race.

The plan is designed for for graduates with assumption of having done HM before so this stage of the plan is about locking into race day paces however if it's your first one and are a beginner you are best using the threshold pace for training and then race day easing into it and starting off conservative the first 3-4 miles

cporto

Testosterscone wrote: »

No problem at all glad you were enjoying it. The HM pace for the session should be near enough to this pace (maybe a 5-10 sec a mile slower but no more) you want to get the right training stimulus from it even if the aerobic conditioning isn't there to sustain the effort for the full race.

The plan is designed for for graduates with assumption of having done HM before so this stage of the plan is about locking into race day paces however if it's your first one and are a beginner you are best using the threshold pace for training and then race day easing into it and starting off conservative the first 3-4 miles

So do you mean since I'm a beginner I should aim for threshold pace in the sessions that call for HM pace? i.e. this Saturday in the plan is 4x8 min HM w/90 sec rec, so I'd do the 8 min repeats at threshold instead? Which for me is 8:57 - 8:45, whereas target HM pace is around 9:04, so more or less the 5-10 seconds slower you mentioned.

Sorry if I'm being a bit slow to get this.... Really appreciate the advice!

Testosterscone

cporto wrote: »

So do you mean since I'm a beginner I should aim for threshold pace in the sessions that call for HM pace? i.e. this Saturday in the plan is 4x8 min HM w/90 sec rec, so I'd do the 8 min repeats at threshold instead? Which for me is 8:57 - 8:45, whereas target HM pace is around 9:04, so more or less the 5-10 seconds slower you mentioned.

Sorry if I'm being a bit slow to get this.... Really appreciate the advice!

Do sessions at threshold pace and when get to race day start out at 9.10 roughly and see how you feel after a few miles.

The first rep will take a bit of time for your HR to climb in the session to be working at correct intensities so it in effect the session won't which is why the paces can be a little more aggressive (couple that with the breaks allowing your HR to drop slightly)

On race day effort levels will be combined with muscle fatigue and other factors which is why it is no harm to work slightly above in this particular session in order to get general fitness benefits.

cporto

Thank you - massively appreciate this! Think I've been reading too much and confusing myself, without knowing what applies to me and what doesn't, so it's very helpful to have it laid out straight.
Cheers!

Testosterscone

cporto wrote: »

Thank you - massively appreciate this! Think I've been reading too much and confusing myself, without knowing what applies to me and what doesn't, so it's very helpful to have it laid out straight.
Cheers!

No worries, its a simple sport at it's core and we tend to get bogged down in the detail a bit too much

The terms in this plan were simply used as that is what the calculator uses and will give a rough guide but the most important thing is working hard on the hard days and easy enough on the easy days and you will see the benefits of work put in.