Switzerland increases VAT rates to invest in railways

Impetus

In a federal referendum held in 2014, the Swiss voted for an increase in the VAT rates by 0.1% to cover investment in the railway system.

Current Swiss VAT rates are:

Standard rate 8% (it will increase to 8.1%)
Accommodation services 3.8%
Reduced rate 2.5%

The new "FerriVAT" will be effective from 01.01.2018 to 31.12.2030. Public transport has nearly 80% share of people movements in large urban areas in Switzerland, such as Zurich, and there is public recognition that the system needs to be structurally expanded. The Swiss had a similar referendum in the 1950s to increase the tax on fuel by about 5c (CHF) per litre to pay for a new national motorway network. The motorway network is being maintained today by a CHF 40 vignette which allows unlimited use of the Swiss motorway network for a year. Tourists who are just passing through Switzerland have to pay CHF 40 - while Swiss residents get a full year's use out of the service.

Compare and contrast with Ireland - where one reads of media complaints about Irish Rail not making a profit!

Meanwhile dumb Irish rail engages in high friction against customers. On intercity journeys one has to go through an expensive barrier system entering and leaving a train. Which is often cumbersome with baggage etc. If you travel in first class, there will be some over-paid ejit who presents himself, probably before you have boarded the train who wants to see your ticket again. Bus dwell times at stops are designed for the unemployed - rather those that need to get from A to B as quickly as possible.

Electric cars take up as much space on roads and parking spaces as conventionally fuelled cars. There is no alternative to high quality public transport, especially for repeat (eg commute, school, work, shopping) trips aside from public transport.

https://www.youtube.com/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBIJ9i7r8zo watch?v=J1HVjZGo1-M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z89TTISKqaQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVk5HVEC3iM

Green class travel (eCar to P+Train)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBIJ9i7r8zo

Green class Train + eCar (language: CH-D):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpC7aCH42Qg

Green class bike + pub transport (language: CH-D):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbzEypiwho

Del.Monte

Wrong forum - if you want an argument go to ...http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=246

Impetus

It is an environmental issue - use of public transport rather than an automobile. Especially electric transport, mainly powered by renewables.

Less traffic on the street. Less pollution which might kill people earlier in their lives. Oil and gas will not run ad-infinitum.

Cleaner air etc.

Please consult a psychiatrist if you have difficulty getting your head around the concept.

Del.Monte

Impetus wrote: »

It is an environmental issue - use of public transport rather than an automobile. Especially electric transport, mainly powered by renewables.

Less traffic on the street. Less pollution which might kill people earlier in their lives. Oil and gas will not run ad-infinitum.

Cleaner air etc.

Please consult a psychiatrist if you have difficulty getting your head around the concept.

There's no need to get snotty, I merely suggested that if you want to discuss the issue that this is the wrong place to do it. In case you haven't noticed it's as quite as the tomb in here.

Impetus

Del.Monte wrote: »

There's no need to get snotty, I merely suggested that if you want to discuss the issue that this is the wrong place to do it. In case you haven't noticed it's as quite as the tomb in here.

Well perhaps people should act to wake the topic up and get people in discussion.....

Impetus

Del.Monte wrote: »

There's no need to get snotty, I merely suggested that if you want to discuss the issue that this is the wrong place to do it. In case you haven't noticed it's as quite as the tomb in here.

You seem to be right about the quietness of the place. Rail infrastructure is a key to a sustainable country. Cars - be they electric (battery or hydrogen) clog a massive amount of space, including parking space, road space. A duplex train (double deck) can hold 1'500 people comfortably. Here in Zurich, one can bring one's bike on board an electric train, and keep it with you on a stand. While you have tables to surf the internet on your suburban trip to the equivalent of Naas or similar. When you arrive in Naas equivalent - you either bike home the last km or so, or you take one of the waiting connector buses that takes you within a few hundred metres of your home. Powered by mains electricity. Electric trains have faster acceleration and make little pollution aside from a bit of noise. Norway has a similar population to Ireland. It is a massive country north to south. And it has had electric trains for decades - long before oil was discovered offshore.

You can pay a monthly or annual subscription that allows you unlimited travel on public networks - private as well as state railways SBB (Swiss Rail). Train use is so heavy as a result of the good service and end to end delivery of you and your family, that they have had to install an extra track or two on busy routes so that fast trains can overtake stopping trains. That is where the extra VAT money is going. High quality public transport is the only sustainable way to move as the population and economy grows. Switzerland is tiny, but has 8.5 million people, most of whom can afford a BMW or a Merc (given the low income tax and low 8% VAT rates). Public transport must compete with this by offering a superior product.

If sustainability and environmental issues is the wrong topic for this, I apologise. However it begs the question of the Irish view of what sustainability and the environment really is.....

Dardania

The Swiss can take a much longer term view of things - see this comparison tool between the two cultures:

https://geert-hofstede.com/switzerland.html
https://geert-hofstede.com/ireland.html
With a low score of 24, Ireland has a culture classified as normative. People in such societies have a strong concern with establishing the absolute Truth; they are normative in their thinking. They exhibit great respect for traditions, a relatively small propensity to save for the future, and a focus on achieving quick results.

Macha

[mod] Ah lads, there's no need for that sort of language. Play the woman, not the ball, etc etc? @Impetus, you're not in the wrong forum. There is a transport forum as Del.Monte points and (and I agree it is spookily quiet in here sometimes..:ninja:) but it's certainly a relevant topic for a sustainability forum.[/mod]

bk

The truth is we need both EV's and better public transport.

We absolutely need Metro North, Dart Underground and more cycling infrastructure in Dublin.

However if you look at the stats of our population density, it is clear that outside of Dublin (and some Cork) we simply don't have the population density to support high quality rail based public transport.

We simply have far too much one off housing, ribbon development, etc. to really support rail outside of Dublin/Cork.

Here is an interesting stat for you. 86% of all journeys on Irish Rail is made in the GDA! And Irish Rail makes up just 16% of all public transport journeys (though Luas would be roughly the same again).

So while you are correct that we certainly don't have the room for any more cars in Dublin, either EV or Diesel, the reality is outside of Dublin the car will continue to rule and it would be better if they were EV's then Diesels.

BTW in terms of the parking space issue. Self driving EV's will go a long way to assisting with that.

Many people won't own their own car, instead they will use a service like Uber to order up a self driving car. The car will arrive at your front door, drive you to your destination and instead of sitting outside your destination, taking up valuable parking space, it will drive on to the next person. When not in use, they will drive themselves to cheaper parking spaces outside the core city.

Del.Monte

bk wrote: »

The truth is we need both EV's and better public transport.

We absolutely need Metro North, Dart Underground and more cycling infrastructure in Dublin.

However if you look at the stats of our population density, it is clear that outside of Dublin (and some Cork) we simply don't have the population density to support high quality rail based public transport.

We simply have far too much one off housing, ribbon development, etc. to really support rail outside of Dublin/Cork.

Here is an interesting stat for you. 86% of all journeys on Irish Rail is made in the GDA! And Irish Rail makes up just 16% of all public transport journeys (though Luas would be roughly the same again).

So while you are correct that we certainly don't have the room for any more cars in Dublin, either EV or Diesel, the reality is outside of Dublin the car will continue to rule and it would be better if they were EV's then Diesels.

BTW in terms of the parking space issue. Self driving EV's will go a long way to assisting with that.

Many people won't own their own car, instead they will use a service like Uber to order up a self driving car. The car will arrive at your front door, drive you to your destination and instead of sitting outside your destination, taking up valuable parking space, it will drive on to the next person. When not in use, they will drive themselves to cheaper parking spaces outside the core city.

You've watched too much stuff like "Total Recall" or "Futurama" - nobody posting on Boards today - or their great grandchildren - will long enough to see this sort of scenario.

Del.Monte

Dublin on a Friday night in a few years time if the world according to bk comes to pass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGi6j2VrL0o

bk

Del.Monte wrote: »

You've watched too much stuff like "Total Recall" or "Futurama" - nobody posting on Boards today - or their great grandchildren - will long enough to see this sort of scenario.

I think you will be surprised. Ever spent much time in Manhattan? I've spent quiet a bit there, as I've friends living there and it is quiet an eye opener as to what is likely to happen in future.

Hardly anyone owns a car there, despite being extremely well paid. Parking is too expensive and traffic a nightmare. They mostly take the metro to work. However at night they all use a service called UberPool.

It is like Uber/MyTaxi, but you actually end up sharing the taxi with 3 or 4 other people who the driver picks up during the journey!

It is awesome and fun and people love it there. Allows them to get around at night cheaply.

Here in Dublin GoCar is expanding quickly and similar services are expanding all over Europe.

No neither of these are self driving yet, but they do show the demand for such services is there, once the technology is there to support it people will lap it up.

BTW I read a detailed study into the cost of such services for the end user. They were looking at a cost of about US 50 cent per mile for the end user!

To put that in context my 2 mile journey into the city center costs about €12 by taxi and €2.05 by bus. The same service by a self driving car will cost about €1

This stuff is gong to have massive impact on society once it hits.