1820s court cases

cassyput

I am researching some local history for Combe Down, Somerset, England and have a copy of a marriage settlement for a William Butler and Jane Davis in 1832.

It mentions that:

"John Callan of Heanstown in the said County of Louth Gentleman did as of Easter Term one thousand eight hundred and twenty one obtain a Judgement in His Majesty’s Court of Kings Bench in Ireland against the Right Honourable John Foster then of Collon in the said County of Louth afterward created Lord Baron Oriel and since deceased for the sum of One thousand and two hundred pounds debt besides costs as by the Records of the said Court will appear And further Reciting that the said John Callan of Heanstown did on or as of the said Easter Term obtain another Judgement in the said Court of Kings Bench against the Right Honourable Thomas Henry Skeffington of Oriel Temple in the said County of Louth (since created Lord Viscount Ferrard) for the sum of One thousand two hundred pounds debt besides costs as by the said Records of the said Court will appear And further Reciting that the said two judgements were for one and the same debt"

Part of this judgement debt is included in the marriage settlement for Jane Davis who was, somehow, related to John Callan - how she was related is still unclear.

£1,200 0s 0d in 1821 is now worth about £1,320,000.00 so it's a pretty large sum and John Foster, 1st Baron Oriel (1740 – 23 August 1828) was an Anglo-Irish peer and politician, who served as Chancellor of the Exchequer of Ireland and as the last Speaker of the Irish House of Commons and his son Thomas Henry Skeffington, 2nd Viscount Ferrard (January 1772 – 18 January 1843), was an Irish peer and politician so, in their day they were, clearly, prominent.

I have tried to find out what Foster did to enable Callan to get such a large judement against him but, so far with no success.

Does anyone have any ideas about how I could find out more please?

nuac

? Local papers of the day?

?May be a judgement mortgage registered in the registry of deeds

? If Land COmmission took over the lands, some documents about this may be in the Land Commission records

? the successors to the legal practices involved may have some details.

? Local History society

? Local Library

GM228

Forster had debts of around £75,000 in relation to purchasing and building the Collon estate, the linen factory and Bleach house amongst others I believe, the judgement may be related somehow to his debts.

cassyput

GM228 wrote: »

Forster had deaths of around £75,000 in relation to purchasing and building the Collon estate, the linen factory and Bleach house amongst others I believe, the judgement may be related somehow to his deaths.

Thanks, I assume you means debts - do you know where I might be able to find out more about these?

testicles

This post has been deleted.

nuac

testicles wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I know, but if these estates or any part of them went thru the Land Acts procedures, there is a possibility that deeds or other title details are still in ILC records

GM228

cassyput wrote: »

Thanks, I assume you means debts - do you know where I might be able to find out more about these?

Yes debts, stupid auto-correct!

There is little about the debts, but here is a mention of his £72,000 debt in 1810.

https://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Services/Archives/Archive_Collections/Archives_relating_to_development_of_County_Louth/PP00019-Collon-estate-1779-81.pdf

However, despite the attempts to develop the prosperity of the Collon estate, its very acquisition had taken a heavy toll on the Fosters' finances. Much of the money raised for the purchase of the estate was borrowed, and by 1810 John (Speaker) Foster's debts were estimated at £72,000. The importance of the Collon estate to the Foster family declined in the 19th century. The huge debt created in the acquisition and running of the estate, coupled with the family's inter-marriage with the Skeffingtons, Earls and Viscounts Massereene, shifted the focus of attention away from the estates in Louth and Meath. The estate was eventually broken up under the Land Commission

His troubles seemed to start many years beforehand but escalated in the late 1700s/early 1800s especially when he had to sell his pension to try and pay for some of his spiralling debts in 1806.

And a little bit of history, it is interesting to note that John Foster was the last speaker before winding up the Parliament of Ireland on 2nd August 1800. He was also involved in the establishment of Bank of Ireland in 1783.

You may also find this very interesting:-
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/foster-massereene.pdf

Young accepted Chief Baron Anthony Foster's testimony that they had been "exceedingly profitable". This would certainly have been the case if the £50,000 had been Anthony Foster's own; but the likelihood is that much of it had to be borrowed. Moreover, Young probably overestimated the financial advantages from the improvements because he underestimated the income which the Fosters were getting from their estate before the improvements began. Certainly, a rental of the estate for the years 1778-1782 suggests (though it is a difficult document to interpret) that the Fosters were so burdened with debt that they were unable to live within their landed income over this four-year period. ... By 1799 John (Speaker) Foster's debts were popularly reckoned at £30,000 - which was an understatement; and by 1810 they had reached the alarming figure of £72,000.

Carawaystick

cassyput wrote: »

£1,200 0s 0d in 1821 is now worth about £1,320,000.00 so it's a pretty large sum and John Foster, 1st Baron Oriel (1740 – 23 August 1828) was an Anglo-Irish peer and politician, who served as Chancellor of the Exchequer of Ireland

Only it was a debt in Ireland, so the current value would be in Euros, but still a lot of them

Peregrinus

Carawaystick wrote: »

Only it was a debt in Ireland, so the current value would be in Euros, but still a lot of them

Plus, if the debt dates from 1821, it was presumably denominated in Irish pounds, not pounds sterling. The two currencies were not merged until 1826.

Thirteen Irish pounds were the equivalent of twelve pounds sterling, so a debt of £1,200 (Irish) would be £1,107 13s. 10d. (sterling).

Of course, the marriage settlement was only drawn up in 1832, and it's possible that when it was drawn up the value of the judgement debt was converted into sterling. So the judgement debt might have been £1,300 (Irish) in 1821, but expressed as £1,200 (sterling) in 1832.

Really Interested

Peregrinus wrote: »

Plus, if the debt dates from 1821, it was presumably denominated in Irish pounds, not pounds sterling. The two currencies were not merged until 1826.

Thirteen Irish pounds were the equivalent of twelve pounds sterling, so a debt of £1,200 (Irish) would be £1,107 13s. 10d. (sterling).

Of course, the marriage settlement was only drawn up in 1832, and it's possible that when it was drawn up the value of the judgement debt was converted into sterling. So the judgement debt might have been £1,300 (Irish) in 1821, but expressed as £1,200 (sterling) in 1832.

Every day I learn something new is a good day, thanks for a very interesting piece of trivia.