Red Line LUAS and personal safety

dubliner_8

I, like many thousands more travel the red line between IFSC and Heuston. Yesterday the luas was packed. A young man came on board who by the smell of him had many drinks on-board. He was loud and brash at first then became intimidating. He boasted how he couldn't wait to get to his stop as he needed to get another "dart" in his arm. He tried engaging with passengers then immediately became threatening. He confronted and threatened to punch a passenger that would not engage with him. A man of middle eastern appearance came on board and he racially abused him. The tram then came near Heuston. a young man had moved up to get near the door. The abusive passenger tried to engage him - telling him he looked gay, and he was going to bust him with his elbow. The LUAS stopped and the door opens. The young man tries to disembark and as he leaves he's elbowed straight in the face by this man. To be fair to the young guy he tried to lunge at the man who elbowed him but at this point passengers are streaming out (many in fear)and he can't get back in.

I've seen lots of things on this LUAS. Anti social behavior, minor assaults, intimidating and threatening behavior. I am really sick of it. Each time I see something I report it to LUAS, receive the obligatory reference number and then nothing. Its an embarrassment. Luckily I mostly travel at peak hours. Outside of these, and particularly at night its a no go area. We, as tax paying, fare paying commuters deserve better.

Del.Monte

In before all those who maintain the Red Luas line is perfectly safe and they've never seen an incident. Just wait until the Cross-city link opens. :rolleyes:

LegallyAbroad

It's a mixture of a lack of safety, lack of enforcement, and a lack of punishment. The likes of your man the OP describes has literally nothing to fear as he already has a string of convictions and nothing to lose.

Unfortunately, the solution is very costly (long prison sentences) or very difficult to obtain (targeted intervention at very young ages).

Probably the best we can hope for is more Gardaí on the street and more prisons with longer sentences.

Personally, I've been uncomfortable on the red line with some absolute gougers knocking about - and I'm a man in my 20s/30s. A whole more uncomfortable for more vulnerable passengers.

LeinsterDub

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

Probably the best we can hope for is more Gardaí on the street and more prisons with longer sentences.

The war on drugs has been a monumental failure. The focus should be shifted to decriminalisation, treatment and recovery and reclassification of many drugs.

LegallyAbroad

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The war on drugs has been a monumental failure. The focus should be shifted to decriminalisation, treatment and recovery and reclassification of many drugs.

Agreed. That would be the ideal situation, but very unlikely to happen tbh.

Baby01032012

Lucky you OP..only travelling heuston to IFSC...the rest of us travel IFSC to red cow and beyond...that's where the real fun is. Depends what you're used to I guess. If you're sensitive to the druggies then I guess you'll have an issue. They're mostly harmless...at most slightly aggressive at times. My main issues with red line is the volume of commuters now. Not possible to have more trams I guess..maybe longer ones...or dedicated line for heuston passengers as there is a line there already.

dubliner_8

Commuters need to be protected from this kind of behavior. Whilst actual assaults may be rare, the threatening and intimidating behavior is not. Either more security or more police on the trams.

dubliner_8

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Lucky you OP..only travelling heuston to IFSC...the rest of us travel IFSC to red cow and beyond...that's where the real fun is. Depends what you're used to I guess. If you're sensitive to the druggies then I guess you'll have an issue. They're mostly harmless...at most slightly aggressive at times. My main issues with red line is the volume of commuters now. Not possible to have more trams I guess..maybe longer ones...or dedicated line for heuston passengers as there is a line there already.

I'm sensitive to random assaults on innocent commuters.

d15ude

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

It's a mixture of a lack of safety, lack of enforcement, and a lack of punishment. The likes of your man the OP describes has literally nothing to fear as he already has a string of convictions and nothing to lose.

Unfortunately, the solution is very costly (long prison sentences) or very difficult to obtain (targeted intervention at very young ages).

Probably the best we can hope for is more Garda? on the street and more prisons with longer sentences.

Personally, I've been uncomfortable on the red line with some absolute gougers knocking about - and I'm a man in my 20s/30s. A whole more uncomfortable for more vulnerable passengers.

In general I agree. But the LUAS is a (semi) private operation.
So a few security guys (like any city centre pub/bar) should sort the situation.

Grahamer666

I don't use the LUAS myself even though it's very close to where i live but is there not security on it already or do they just travel certain parts of the line? Surely it makes more sense to put them on the stretches of line where you are more likely to encounter these vermin.

ImARebel

I was grabbed getting off the luas at kymemore one evening (bright day light!) right up behind the driver. 2 lads, one was extremely drunk. He pinned my arms down and pulled me back onto a seat and wouldn't let me go. The driver sat there and watched it all and didn't move an inch...

Luckily his side kick was less p*ssed and told him to let me go and pulled him away from me. I got off and I was pretty shaken, just because it was so unexpected, these 2 didn't look like your average luas red line druggie

and I was always one of those people who thought they'd fight back, well I didn't my arms were pinned to my side and I was lying on top of this guy on a luas seat, I literally couldn't move, but nor did I try to....

storker

I remember when this was a problem with some bus routes in Dublin. I don't know if it still is. Personally I'd like to see security with truncheons and tasers on public transport, with smokers, drug takers, and those indulging in other threatening behaviour, being given a few wallops and forcibly thrown off at the first opportunity, combined with some form of bio-metric recognition so they are never allowed on again. Unworkable due to cost and other considerations, I know.

I'm not anything like as right-wing as this probably makes me sound, quite the contrary, but damn it all...enough is enough.

Tow

All in a days travel on the Red Line..

d15ude wrote: »

So a few security guys (like any city centre pub/bar) should sort the situation.

They have them already and they don't do much good, unless they were to increase their numbers dramatically.

The Luas operators should have a SMS security alert number posted on all carriages. This would allow customers discreetly contact security and give the closest door number of the offender(s) location.

You can of course call 'LoCall 1850 300 604', but:
A: It is office hours only!
B: If over heard you may get your face smashed in or worse.

Of course the biggest joke is watching the ticket inspectors bypassing these people. They would learn a thing or two from the Paris Metro operates and so would the thugs.

LegallyAbroad

storker wrote: »

I remember when this was a problem with some bus routes in Dublin. I don't know if it still is. Personally I'd like to see security with truncheons and tasers on public transport, with smokers, drug takers, and those indulging in other threatening behaviour, being given a few wallops and forcibly thrown off at the first opportunity, combined with some form of bio-metric recognition so they are never allowed on again. Unworkable due to cost and other considerations, I know.

I'm not anything like as right-wing as this probably makes me sound, quite the contrary, but damn it all...enough is enough.

You want those involved in 'threatening behaviour' or having a fag to be physically assaulted with truncheons and tasers. Talk about escalation.

mcbobbyb

I think you need to somehow have a gate or barrier that you can't get through unless you've paid the fare. These people get on and off for free whenever they like. They couldn't do it if they had to pay each time

newirishman

If the LUAS is packed, I wonder why you wouldn't have two or three passengers who'd just kick the druggie off the tram? Is everyone just standing there and trying to become invisible so that they are not the target of abuse?

A bit sad that "civil courage" seems to be missing in this country.

The J Stands for Jay

Tow wrote: »

All in a days travel on the Red Line..



They have them already and they don't do much good, unless they were to increase their numbers dramatically.

The Luas operators should have a SMS security alert number posted on all carriages. This would allow customers discreetly contact security and give the closest door number of the offender(s) location.

You can of course call 'LoCall 1850 300 604', but:
A: It is office hours only!
B: If over heard you may get your face smashed in or worse.

Of course the biggest joke is watching the ticket inspectors bypassing these people. They would learn a thing or two from the Paris Metro operates and so would the thugs.

How does the Paris metro operate?

dubliner_8

mcbobbyb wrote: »

I think you need to somehow have a gate or barrier that you can't get through unless you've paid the fare. These people get on and off for free whenever they like. They couldn't do it if they had to pay each time

According to LUAS customer care, most have a free travel pass and entitled to travel for free!

dubliner_8

newirishman wrote: »

If the LUAS is packed, I wonder why you wouldn't have two or three passengers who'd just kick the druggie off the tram? Is everyone just standing there and trying to become invisible so that they are not the target of abuse?

A bit sad that "civil courage" seems to be missing in this country.

Easy to say that from behind the keyboard. Not so easy when actually experiencing this situation.

storker

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

You want those involved in 'threatening behaviour' or having a fag to be physically assaulted with truncheons and tasers. Talk about escalation.

Not quite. They should be given one chance to cop themselves on and cease the undesirable behaviour and comply politely with instructions to do so, and then physically assaulted with truncheons and tasers if compliance isn't forthcoming.

Such a form of escalation would be much more preferable to the escalations that non-disruptive, non-threatening, law-abiding commuters suffer every day.

5rtytry56

Good thread, but some nieve replies.
A have a go hero may face a couple of a scummers buddies, while the rest of the passengers spectate. Simply spectate. This has been raised in other threads. Even a mother positioning her kiddies buggy so the kid can get a better view.

newirishman

dubliner_8 wrote: »

Easy to say that from behind the keyboard. Not so easy when actually experiencing this situation.

Did not say it is easy. It is just something that I have experienced in other countries, but not at all here. I mean, you can have a Bus full of people and one person annoying everyone by don't know playing loud music on his phone. You'd couldn't find anyone saying something about it to that one person if you paid for it. People might quietly complain to the next person but never raise their voice.

LegallyAbroad

newirishman wrote: »

Did not say it is easy. It is just something that I have experienced in other countries, but not at all here. I mean, you can have a Bus full of people and one person annoying everyone by don't know playing loud music on his phone. You'd couldn't find anyone saying something about it to that one person if you paid for it. People might quietly complain to the next person but never raise their voice.

I've seen the exact same thing in other countries I've lived in, even more so tbh. Loud music is a minor annoyance compared to being injured/killed.

Hector Savage

Tow wrote: »

All in a days travel on the Red Line..


....

Of course the biggest joke is watching the ticket inspectors bypassing these people. They would learn a thing or two from the Paris Metro operates and so would the thugs.

How do they do it in Paris ?

Unpossible

Hector Savage wrote: »

How do they do it in Paris ?

Well for one thing, they don't call it a tazering, they call it "le shocker with cheese".

Its because of the metric system or something.

CIARAN_BOYLE

newirishman wrote: »

If the LUAS is packed, I wonder why you wouldn't have two or three passengers who'd just kick the druggie off the tram? Is everyone just standing there and trying to become invisible so that they are not the target of abuse?

A bit sad that "civil courage" seems to be missing in this country.

Scumbag has a knife, scumbag has friends.

While I will stand to defend the people I care about and possibly to defend a stranger at risk of bodily harm Im not going up against a group of armed scumbags so that strangers will be safe from harassment.

crashadder

Scumbag has a knife, scumbag has friends.

While I will stand to defend the people I care about and possibly to defend a stranger at risk of bodily harm Im not going up against a group of armed scumbags so that strangers will be safe from harassment.

This is what happened in istanbul 3 years ago when 2 scumbags started harassing people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFOk7T58FGk

sbsquarepants

I use the luas very rarely and practicaly every time I've been on it (maybe a dozen or 15 times out of about 20) there is trouble between davit road and hueston. Scumbags, junkies, abusive drunks and just general arseholes seem to crowd on and cause havoc.
I wouldn't like to have to use it all the time, I'd actually dread if my kids had to.

Lux23

Tow wrote: »

All in a days travel on the Red Line..




The Luas operators should have a SMS security alert number posted on all carriages. This would allow customers discreetly contact security and give the closest door number of the offender(s) location.

That is a great suggestion - these lads just don't on the tram if one fo these security guys is on or at the station.

mcbobbyb

dubliner_8 wrote:

According to LUAS customer care, most have a free travel pass and entitled to travel for free!

I understand lots of addicts get disability but there is loads of little ****s that get on and off who cause trouble. I think it would greatly reduce the numbers getting on and off.

Hilly Bill

dubliner_8 wrote: »

Easy to say that from behind the keyboard. Not so easy when actually experiencing this situation.

One druggie intimidating a packed luas? Should be the other way round. They have a new get out clause these days, they say the words "" but I'm homeless " and gullible people fall for it.

Hilly Bill

mcbobbyb wrote: »

I understand lots of addicts get disability but there is loads of little ****s that get on and off who cause trouble. I think it would greatly reduce the numbers getting on and off.

They will travel for free regardless of having a pass or not.

mcbobbyb

Hilly Bill wrote:

They will travel for free regardless of having a pass or not.

My point was there should be a barrier to stop people who don't pay.

scopper

newirishman wrote: »

If the LUAS is packed, I wonder why you wouldn't have two or three passengers who'd just kick the druggie off the tram? Is everyone just standing there and trying to become invisible so that they are not the target of abuse?

A bit sad that "civil courage" seems to be missing in this country.

There is a psychological phenomenon whereby the more people who see a crime the less likely anyone will engage. It has something to do with people thinking someone else better able to sort it will.

The LUAS is terrible. I used to get it from Kingswood to Abbey St and back and my god are there some heads on it (I grew up rough so would be used to it, but I admit to being amazed by the sheer numbers).

LXFlyer

mcbobbyb wrote: »

My point was there should be a barrier to stop people who don't pay.

And how exactly would you stop them?

The tracks are on street in the city centre and in many cases on the normal footpath - people could simply walk along the tracks and onto the platforms.

It's not like a railway or underground where you can segregate access.

You're asking the impossible I fear.

_Kaiser_

Was on the Red Line a few weeks ago - first time in years - and some scumbag gets on roaring down the phone at presumably his girlfriend (or whatever!) and hangs up before discussing the situation with his mate. Another call or two later with all the other "poxy b*stards" on the LUAS listening and he gets off.. charming!

I've used the Green Line occasionally and it's a different world.

I tell ya, this cross city nonsense is going to cause all sorts of grief when guys like I mentioned above can easily take day trips to the likes of Dundrum. Somehow though I doubt the same behavior will be tolerated though.

LXFlyer

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Was on the Red Line a few weeks ago - first time in years - and some scumbag gets on roaring down the phone at presumably his girlfriend (or whatever!) and hangs up before discussing the situation with his mate. Another call or two later with all the other "poxy b*stards" on the LUAS listening and he gets off.. charming!

I've used the Green Line occasionally and it's a different world.

I tell ya, this cross city nonsense is going to cause all sorts of grief when guys like I mentioned above can easily take day trips to the likes of Dundrum. Somehow though I doubt the same behavior will be tolerated though.

Let's be honest the people using the Red Line are by and large making the same trips they used to make by bus - they just switched to LUAS. They don't head off to new areas that much.

I can see some issues on the section of the Green Line perhaps on the Broombridge-City Centre section but I don't see it becoming an issue along the existing Green Line.

veryangryman

lxflyer wrote: »

I can see some issues on the section of the Green Line perhaps on the Broombridge-City Centre section but I don't see it becoming an issue along the existing Green Line.

Agreed. The knacks will just get off at O Connell St or Trinity at an absolute stretch. Cant see them going southside

dubliner_8

When cross city is up and running green liners should get used to LUAS delays due to "soiled tram"

Baby01032012

dubliner_8 wrote: »

When cross city is up and running green liners should get used to LUAS delays due to "soiled tram"

thats never happened to my knowledge...get over yourself OP...no one is forcing you to use it!

Dr Crayfish

I really hope the scum start harassing the Green line too, even though it's unlikely, because I'm a spiteful bastard. They think theyre so safe in their leafy suburbs!

JaMarcusHustle

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've used the Green Line occasionally and it's a different world.

It's not all that different, really.

I get the Green line to work, and one day back in February the bar was out of napkins. It was awful, and I let the bellboy know about it.

Atlantic Dawn

The junkies usually have free travel passes, they are basically encouraged to use public transport and be a menace to the rest of the fare paying public.

Del.Monte

Tow wrote: »

All in a days travel on the Red Line..



They have them already and they don't do much good, unless they were to increase their numbers dramatically.

The Luas operators should have a SMS security alert number posted on all carriages. This would allow customers discreetly contact security and give the closest door number of the offender(s) location.

You can of course call 'LoCall 1850 300 604', but:
A: It is office hours only!
B: If over heard you may get your face smashed in or worse.

Of course the biggest joke is watching the ticket inspectors bypassing these people. They would learn a thing or two from the Paris Metro operates and so would the thugs.

It's hardly rocket science and it's needed on the DART too, but it won't happen due to official inertia.

Pkiernan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The war on drugs has been a monumental failure. The focus should be shifted to decriminalisation, treatment and recovery and reclassification of many drugs.

Or just jail users indefinitely.

jamesthepeach

Pkiernan wrote: »

Or just jail users indefinitely.

I'd dig a big hole, drop all the scumbags in it and watch them eat each other. Last one left can have another chance

Rezident

dubliner_8 wrote: »

.... We, as tax paying, fare paying commuters deserve better.

Well, we are funding the system whereby skangers get free houses, free medical care, free money, (with a bonus at Christmas! I don't get a bonus at Christmas) and free everything else and then they can appear in court with 73 previous convictions and do it all over again.

So why would they not feel entitled to do whatever the F! they want? They must be laughing their @sses off at our stupidity. It's human nature for them to act this way when the system facilitates it. This is our system, so we get what we deserve.

ED E

Rezident wrote: »

can appear in court with 73 previous convictions and do it all over again.

73? Amateur. More like 250.

TheQuietFella

ImARebel wrote: »

I was grabbed getting off the luas at kylemore one evening (bright day light!) right up behind the driver. 2 lads, one was extremely drunk. He pinned my arms down and pulled me back onto a seat and wouldn't let me go. The driver sat there and watched it all and didn't move an inch...

Maybe the driver thought it was a scam by the three of ye to get him to move from his cabin, overpower him and drive his train?

dubliner_8

Baby01032012 wrote: »

thats never happened to my knowledge...get over yourself OP...no one is forcing you to use it!

This does happen. Usually they will announce on the platform because the out of service tram has to pass by all the stops to get back to the depot. I don't use the green line as much but to be fair it happens on that line too. I've seen the notices on the website and twitter.

I accept that post of mine lacked balance.

Phil.x

And these druggies travel for free!!