Petrol or diesel car?

Brian2011

Hi guys,

I am currently doing about 18 to 20 thousand kilometres a year, I drive between 60 to 70 km each day 5 days a week and usually only very short trips at weekends of a few km.

I currently get about less that 40mpg for petrol car. Would I be better off sticking with a petrol or going for a diesel car for upgrading? Thanks

colm_mcm

It really depends on how much you want to spend on upgrading what you have.
Diesel would make sense for you in my opinion.
A hybrid or fully electric car might be worth considering too, again depending on budget.

Brian2011

I was told 30k km per year and over for diesel?

colm_mcm

That's pub talk from when diesels cost €5k more to buy than petrol.

The driving itself is more important than how much of it you do.

Brian2011

colm_mcm wrote: »

That's pub talk from when diesels cost €5k more to buy than petrol.

The driving itself is more important than how much of it you do.

I have been told short journeys are not recommended for Diesel constantly, because of this DPF filter that will get clogged and is really expensive to replace.

But is 50 plus km a day of a return journey enough to warrant diesel?

colm_mcm

Yeah, it's about ratios. If you're doing nothing but very short journies fair enough, but you're not.

thegills

I do 70km per day to work on an 06 Diesel Passat and the occasional trip from Killaloe to Dublin. Hitting 50mpg regularly. So Diesel for me.

Brian2011

thegills wrote: »

I do 70km per day to work on an 06 Diesel Passat and the occasional trip from Killaloe to Dublin. Hitting 50mpg regularly. So Diesel for me.

ok but you only get 50 mpg, I was hoping to get like 60mpg for a diesel

colm_mcm

What petrol car do you drive, and what is your average mpg?

Brian2011

colm_mcm wrote: »

What petrol car do you drive, and what is your average mpg?

ford focus 1.4, around 35 to 40 mpg, but usually about 40

Sleeper12

They will most likely ban diesel private cars from Dublin & possibly Cork in a few years. They are taking about bringing the cost of diesel up to match petrol prices. At the moment there's less tax on diesel.
I drive diesel van myself so not trying to talk you out of it but a few things to think about

colm_mcm

Brian2011 wrote: »

ford focus 1.4, around 35 to 40 mpg, but usually about 40

That's quite good for a 1.4 Focus which would suggest you could potentially get late 50s or even 60s depending on which particular diesel you go for.

TheBigKahuna

In my experience, diesel for long runs, petrol for short. I've a 1.6 diesel Mondeo and the best I can get is 42mpg. I do about 20k+ per year, half of which is town runs and the rest are longer 30-40km runs. That's the best average I can get. Even in my older Astra, that was still the best to could get. In my opinion, big diesel if you do mostly long runs, and mid sized petrol for mostly shorter runs.

bmwguy

At 20000km 40 mpg will mean you will buy 500 gallons a year. A gallon is 4.54 litres @ 1.40 per litre at the moment.
This cost is 3178 euro

A diesel at 60 mpg is 333 gallons which will cost 1967 euro at 1.30 per litre.

So it's approx 1200 a year or just over 20 euro a week.

That's your fuel.saving. Think very carefully whether you will realise an actual saving in motoring costs or not. I actually doubt it if you come up in years any way at all. Depreciation will get you many times over.
If you spend 3 grand changing, it will.take 2.5 years to recoup your cash.


As I always advise, if you want a new car, go for it I have no problem there. I change from time to time too.
If you want to save money overall, do not buy a new car!

TheBigKahuna

Agree with Bmwguy, new is only if you have money to burn, depreciation is a killer. Better off buying at least 2 years back, you can find a car that's as good as new (still under warranty some of the time) and you'll miss the tough depreciation.

It's the short runs that will kill your mileage, short cold start don't help. Even longer runs are only mileage saving if you don't have to stop/start for traffic and junctions. Ideally you want long motorway runs to gather a proper high mpg.

Pkiernan

Brian2011 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I am currently doing about 18 to 20 thousand kilometres a year, I drive between 60 to 70 km each day 5 days a week and usually only very short trips at weekends of a few km.

I currently get about less that 40mpg for petrol car. Would I be better off sticking with a petrol or going for a diesel car for upgrading? Thanks

You are certainly a strong candidate for an electric car.

Brian2011

Pkiernan wrote: »

You are certainly a strong candidate for an electric car.

Electric cars? don't you have to charge those everyday like you would a smartphone everyday?

Not for me, I'd be far too lazy to do that, too much of a nuisance for me

slave1

Brian2011 wrote: »

ok but you only get 50 mpg, I was hoping to get like 60mpg for a diesel

That's ambitious, I have a 132 1.6l diesel CRV and best I've got it 61mpg when I had a 400km trip one day, usually 58mpg during Summer and drops to 54mpg in Winter months. This is based on 90%+ straight runs as we have an EV for the shorter/school/town runs etc.

If you want a smaller car then perhaps you can get your 60mpg.
Look to UK import yourself at around the 3/4 year old mark where the bulk of the depreciation had been suffered...

micks_address

I drive a

slave1 wrote: »

Brian2011 wrote: »

ok but you only get 50 mpg, I was hoping to get like 60mpg for a diesel

That's ambitious, I have a 132 1.6l diesel CRV and best I've got it 61mpg when I had a 400km trip one day, usually 58mpg during Summer and drops to 54mpg in Winter months. This is based on 90%+ straight runs as we have an EV for the shorter/school/town runs etc.

If you want a smaller car then perhaps you can get your 60mpg.
Look to UK import yourself at around the 3/4 year old mark where the bulk of the depreciation had been suffered...

I drive a Civic 1.6 diesel and do about 80km each day - usually fast enough motorway driving - at least some of it depending on accidents on the m50/m1
I'm getting 65mpg plus from the Civic easily. Before the Civic I had an Accord diesel which was only doing low 40s mpg.. I went from 2 tanks of diesel at 70 euro a pop in the Accord (bigger tank) to 2 tanks of diesel at 50 a pop in the civic so saving a good 30 to 40 euro a month on fuel
Should be some good value in secondhand diesel Civics at the moment with the new model being out. Might be worth a look.

Cheers,
Mick

grogi

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They will most likely ban diesel private cars from Dublin & possibly Cork in a few years.

Nonsense, nobody will never do that.

Even big cities, like Paris and London, which have gigantic issue with the air quality, are not banning modern diesels. London is banning Euro4 (2006) and older, while Paris Euro3 (2001) and older. Euro6 diesels will be allowed for very long time; we might see some tightening of emission controls at the NCT and alike, but once the Euro6 car still complies with the norm, it will be allowed in the foreseeable future.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They are taking about bringing the cost of diesel up to match petrol prices. At the moment there's less tax on diesel.

That discussion has been there for years. It is not going to happen too. Might be right thing to do, but will fire up a lot of populist anger.

What will happen is diesels in passenger cars will be phased out - new cars will not hit the market, because nobody will be able to meet Euro7 without massive costs.

grogi

Brian2011 wrote: »

Electric cars? don't you have to charge those everyday like you would a smartphone everyday?

Not for me, I'd be far too lazy to do that, too much of a nuisance for me

You get home in the evening, you plug it in. In the morning you unplug it, and here you go... In a fully charged car, preheated to your prefered temperature. Without a hint of mist on the windows etc.

Audioslaven

micks_address wrote: »

I drive a

I drive a Civic 1.6 diesel and do about 80km each day - usually fast enough motorway driving - at least some of it depending on accidents on the m50/m1
I'm getting 65mpg plus from the Civic easily. Before the Civic I had an Accord diesel which was only doing low 40s mpg.. I went from 2 tanks of diesel at 70 euro a pop in the Accord (bigger tank)?to 2 tanks of diesel at 50 a pop in the civic so saving a good 30 to 40 euro a month on fuel
Should be some good value in secondhand diesel Civics at the moment with the new model being out. Might be worth a look.

Cheers,
Mick

I have the 2.2 I-DTEC civic model and I am getting 4.6L per 100KM in summer and 4.9L per 100KM in winter. I am doing 80KM a day but all country roads.

monkeysnapper

I've been looking around garages this week for a new 2nd hand car, I do low milage and have been asking for a large car in a petrol . They have all been looking at me like I've two heads on my shoulders ....

" sure give us ye details and we'll ring ye "

Right so!!!!!! That's all I got all week .

grogi

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I've been looking around garages this week for a new 2nd hand car, I do low milage and have been asking for a large car in a petrol . They have all been looking at me like I've two heads on my shoulders ....

" sure give us ye details and we'll ring ye "

Right so!!!!!! That's all I got all week .

VW/Skoda have a very comprehensive offering in petrol cars.

Casati

grogi wrote: »

VW/Skoda have a very comprehensive offering in petrol cars.

They sure do but that doesn't mean people buy them. 1.0 Mondeo was meant to be the next big thing four years ago but I don't think any of them sold.

Diesel all the way for large cars

Lantus

As bmwguy guy states there is about 10cent a litre difference between the fuels. I average 5.6l/100km in my petrol car. A diesel should get you 4.6l/100km. So a saving of 1 litre per 100 km. That's 1.30 a day saved say on a 100km daily commute plus the cost difference between fuels which would be 50cent roughly in this case. Let's say 1.80eu.

So that's about 950eu a year savings.

Let's say 3k over 3 years. That's ok but a diesel car can often cost much more to buy. Generally 1 to 3k more but this varies for each model and the gap is narrowing.

So you need long term ownership and high mileage and a car where the difference in cost to buy the diesel is minimal to benefit considerably.

In my case it has no advantage even driving 100km a day. Plus diesel can have slightly increased servicing costs over time.

All of these things can be played around with in a spreadsheet so work the numbers and work out if it makes sense for you.

jaginsligo

Something to mention as well if u are insured with AA then u get a 4cent discount per litre on petrol (at least until the end of this year & 2c after) if you buy your petrol from topaz, that narrows the gap again

SBPhoto

Also remember that if your registered for VAT you can claim back the 23% VAT on Diesel, which a lot of the Business people are.

machiavellianme

jaginsligo wrote: »

Something to mention as well if u are insured with AA then u get a 4cent discount per litre on petrol (at least until the end of this year & 2c after) if you buy your petrol from topaz, that narrows the gap again

You do? I've been insured with them for years and never got that offer?
But I do use the 5c off that 3 customers get via the app (when its available) - applying for the AA fuelcard now anyway.

colm_mcm

The AA Fuel Card
All AA Customers can now get an AA Fuel Card completely Free. And that's not all. Topaz are now also giving customers double saving with 4c off per litre of Petrol and/or Diesel, in Topaz garages across the country until 31st December 2017.

Here.
http://www.theaa.ie/aa/fuel-card.aspx


Should be noted that the 4c off applies to both petrol and diesel. So no gap narrowing as suggested.

jaginsligo

Yeah, sorry it applies to both petrol & diesel, I just thought in the context if you already had a petrol car it makes the fuel cost that but cheaper

murpho999

Lots of talk here of MPG.

Who actiually still uses that with cars and petrol sales all being KMs and Liters. Makes no sense to go MPG.

TheBigKahuna

We're all old fashioned here. I was raised on punts, gallons, miles and MPG. L/KM doesn't make sense to me yet.

grogi

TheBigKahuna wrote: »

We're all old fashioned here. I was raised on punts, gallons, miles and MPG. L/KM doesn't make sense to me yet.

km/l is a more SI-like direct derivative from mpg. I personally don't speak it, but many nations (like Italians) do mainly use this one.

2.825 mpg = 1 km/l.

murpho999

TheBigKahuna wrote: »

We're all old fashioned here. I was raised on punts, gallons, miles and MPG. L/KM doesn't make sense to me yet.

But how do people actually do it when their car clock shows KMs and they buy in liters.

Just constantly converting stuff, makes no practical sense.

micks_address

jaginsligo wrote: »

Yeah, sorry it applies to both petrol & diesel, I just thought in the context if you already had a petrol car it makes the fuel cost that but cheaper

I usually find Topaz a fair bit dearer than my local esso or texaco - so even with the 4 cent difference its still more expensive... the other thing which i find is that my car goes about 50km further on esso fuel... no idea why... i know topaz say theirs should get me further but it doesnt..

Brian2011

Brian2011 wrote: »

ok but you only get 50 mpg, I was hoping to get like 60mpg for a diesel

I'm not overly heavy footed. In the last 12 months I've driven a diesel Lancer, Tipo, 500L, Focus, Fabia and Kuga.

The only one that got close to 60mpg was the Fabia, 55mpg.

Brian2011 wrote: »

ford focus 1.4, around 35 to 40 mpg, but usually about 40

Now you seem very light footed or else your trips are ideal for mpg (quite flat, little traffic, not motorway) so you might see 60mpg alright.
If you are buying new Toyota are doing 72 hour test drives on their hybrid range, might be worth looking at.

SBPhoto wrote: »

Also remember that if your registered for VAT you can claim back the 23% VAT on Diesel, which a lot of the Business people are.

.............. yeah, if it's a company owned car or van.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

.............. yeah, if it's a company owned car or van.

Doesn't have to be company owned. Sole traders, tradesmen, farmers etc will own their own vehicle rather than it being company owned and if they are vat registered can reclaim the vat on fuel.

Shefwedfan

Brian2011 wrote: »

Electric cars? don't you have to charge those everyday like you would a smartphone everyday?

Not for me, I'd be far too lazy to do that, too much of a nuisance for me

Based on your requirement you are mad to discount electric cars

I had similar mileage to yourself and I have converted. The issue most people have with electric cars is they automatically think of the Leaf and say they would never be seen driving it.

If you check into it there is a good few other options. I ended up with e-Golf which is a brill car. of course you need to like Golf's first.

You can take a Leaf out over weekend for a test drive and actually see if electric works for you. That is what I done, decided first if electric would work and then wait for right car to become available. With the Ioniq available now the selection is better.

The plugging in at night is so easy, you have charge point on house and just connect, get up in morning and you have full tank and ready to go. Also has options to reheat/cool car so it is ready to go.

I have 2 cars, it kills me every few weeks to stick 100 quid into the 7 seater but no real 7 seat electric option yet, when it comes out I would jump on it

A lot of nonsense in terms of MPG etc below. If you are doing short trips a diesel will kill you. They are made for long journeys and doing 100+ km a day. The UK is ideal for diesel. Majority of people in Ireland have bought a diesel because it is "cheap". Will never use the car properly and run high fuels and servicing cost but sure the tax is cheap.

You should pick a type of car based on your usage and then buy a car you like that sits in that bracket.

For the journey you are talking about petrol is the way but to try and increase your MPG I would look at hybrid.

But my recommendation would be electric. You will be surprised when you take one for a spin. I can tell you I was.

Archer Puny Wage

Archer Puny Wage wrote: »

Doesn't have to be company owned. Sole traders, tradesmen, farmers etc will own their own vehicle rather than it being company owned and if they are vat registered can reclaim the vat on fuel.

I took the reference to "business people" to being someone with a Ltd company. In which case the car/van must be owned by the Ltd company to claim the VAT back.

I don't think anyone refers to farmers etc as business people.

radharc

micks_address wrote: »

I usually find Topaz a fair bit dearer than my local esso or texaco - so even with the 4 cent difference its still more expensive... the other thing which i find is that my car goes about 50km further on esso fuel... no idea why... i know topaz say theirs should get me further but it doesnt..

Topaz have supplied Esso with fuel for the past year...

DrPhilG

Brian2011 wrote: »

Electric cars? don't you have to charge those everyday like you would a smartphone everyday?

Not for me, I'd be far too lazy to do that, too much of a nuisance for me

Don't get the mentality of that at all. It takes me 30 seconds to plug in and 30 seconds to unplug.

I'm saving €2100 per year compared to the diesel I had before.

If €2100 is the pay for 365 minutes of hassle (if I charged daily, but I don't) that means I'm paying myself a rate of about €350 an hour to do all that strenuous work! And please note, I am an exceedingly lazy fecker.

Joking aside though, I agree with previous comments. At that mileage you're pretty much the perfect candidate for electric. Long enough journeys to benefit from the vastly cheaper "fuel" but not long enough to need to rely on the public charging network.

SBPhoto

Augeo wrote: »

I took the reference to "business people" to being someone with a Ltd company. In which case the car/van must be owned by the Ltd company to claim the VAT back.

I don't think anyone refers to farmers etc as business people.

Business People can be sole traders as well which i am and can claim the VAT back

SBPhoto

SBPhoto wrote: »

Business People can be sole traders as well which i am and can claim the VAT back

Of course business people can be sole traders, no doubt.

Notch000

I read a lot of talk about short trip will kill ypu MPG, in my case I do a lot of short trips and heavy traffic commuting in a 1.8 petrol, it does 30mpg all day long,
Now lets say your Vag TDI will do 50mpg what would it do under city traffic stop start approx. 100 miles comuting per week ???

Notch000

I read a lot of talk about short trip will kill ypu MPG, in my case I do a lot of short trips and heavy traffic commuting in a 1.8 petrol, it does 30mpg all day long,
Now lets say you Vag TDI will do 50mpg what would it do under city traffic stop start approx. 100 miles comuting per week ???

Darwin

OP, if you are interested in fuel economy, check out this page:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/

Obviously you have to take it with a pinch of salt as there is probably no vetting of the figures that are submitted, but I have found it pretty accurate for my own motor, only 75% the claimed MPG of the manufacturer!

grogi

Notch000 wrote: »

I read a lot of talk about short trip will kill ypu MPG, in my case I do a lot of short trips and heavy traffic commuting in a 1.8 petrol, it does 30mpg all day long,
Now lets say you Vag TDI will do 50mpg what would it do under city traffic stop start approx. 100 miles comuting per week ???

30 mpg I would guess...

grogi

grogi wrote: »

30 mpg I would guess...

You will still get mpg in the 40's from a diesel used in traffic. It's another myth thrown around by some about diesel mpg being worse in traffic. Well yeah it is but will still be far far better than petrol in traffic.

Shefwedfan

Archer Puny Wage wrote: »

You will still get mpg in the 40's from a diesel used in traffic. It's another myth thrown around by some about diesel mpg being worse in traffic. Well yeah it is but will still be far far better than petrol in traffic.

Complete lie.....how you could even think it is a myth is beyond me?

Diesel is shocking in traffic. I drove diesel all my life and still have a diesel. I have moved to electric for city driving

On my old A6 I could get 5-6ltr/100km when doing long trips to Cork. Was perfect for those trips

In and out of Dublin to work for a few days and I was at 14ltr/100

Not just me, a few people I know are getting similar. That is the grand total of 20MPG

I still have SMAX and it is running a little better but not much

3rdDegree

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Complete lie.....how you could even think it is a myth is beyond me?

Diesel is shocking in traffic. I drove diesel all my life and still have a diesel. I have moved to electric for city driving

On my old A6 I could get 5-6ltr/100km when doing long trips to Cork. Was perfect for those trips

In and out of Dublin to work for a few days and I was at 14ltr/100

Not just me, a few people I know are getting similar. That is the grand total of 20MPG

I still have SMAX and it is running a little better but not much

I never know what to think when I read posts like this. I have a year old 2 litre diesel Mondeo and I drive in an equal mix of city traffic all week and a couple of long journeys at the weekends. I do only about 23,000km per year and I'm getting almost 49mpg.