HKC Securecomm

Tweaky

Hi,
Is anyone aware of changes to the HKC securecomm monthly charges for new subscribers.
Installer is telling me it is € 9.99 per month and that the € 4.99 per month is gone

Thanks

frash

Dunno about new subs but I paid €59.88 last year

giggsirish

Your installer just looking make a few € its still €5 a month

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Residential Options[/font]
[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif] Standard - €4.99 per month (Incl. VAT)
[/font]

• Managed World SIM
• Unlimited App control + notifications
• SMS control + notifications, fair usage limit 50 messages per month
  (* Alarm activations only)
• Monitoring to Central Station
  (GSM-SC Only)
• Loss of connectivity to site detected within 8 hours

kub

? 4.99 is the basic package, the polling time on that is 8 hours. The next one up has a polling time of 90 minutes.

You get what you pay for and it is not the installer who decides how much it costs.

hatchman

kub wrote:

? 4.99 is the basic package, the polling time on that is 8 hours. The next one up has a polling time of 90 minutes.

Just out of interest is there a cost to hkc to decrease the polling time ? Or is it just a way to make some more money ?

kub

hatchman wrote: »

Just out of interest is there a cost to hkc to decrease the polling time ? Or is it just a way to make some more money ?

I suppose the people to answer that is HKC.

KoolKid

hatchman wrote: »

Just out of interest is there a cost to hkc to decrease the polling time ? Or is it just a way to make some more money ?

In both cases these polling times are pretty poor compared to what's available for free.
Siemens Vanderbilt can notify of all comms fails within a minute. GSD can do the same in 5 minutes.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

In both cases these polling times are pretty poor compared to what's available for free.
Siemens Vanderbilt can notify of all comms fails within a minute. GSD can do the same in 5 minutes.

Provided that your router is immune to mains failures, providing that your broadband is as sound and as capable as the World sim that comes with the HKC securecomm unit.

How much are those 'free' ones if there is a SIM card involved?

KoolKid

kub wrote: »

Provided that your router is immune to mains failures, providing that your broadband is as sound and as capable as the World sim that comes with the HKC securecomm unit.

The whole thing about polling is the notification you get when all the comms goes down,. What use is a SIM/GPRS back up if all comms is down , or taken down, and you hear about it 8 hours later?
What use is even 90 minutes?

kub wrote: »

How much are those 'free' ones if there is a SIM card involved?

GSDs is €40 per year . Polling can be set at 5 minutes & smash & grab alerts at 1 minute.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

The whole thing about polling is the notification you get when all the comms goes down,. What use is a SIM/GPRS back up if all comms is down , or taken down, and you hear about it 8 hours later?
What use is even 90 minutes?


GSDs is ?40 per year . Polling can be set at 5 minutes & smash & grab alerts at 1 minute.

Have GSD a world sim?
The fascination of polling time continues, there is a lot more to a security system than that.

altor

hatchman wrote: »

Just out of interest is there a cost to hkc to decrease the polling time ? Or is it just a way to make some more money ?

There is a cost to decrease the polling time but you would be looking at commercial rates to have it lowered considerably.
The main issue is depending on a router to monitor your alarm system.
Mains off means you have no way of knowing what's happening.

Id recommend using both wifi and GPRS with any system.

KoolKid

kub wrote: »

Have GSD a world sim?
The fascination of polling time continues, there is a lot more to a security system than that.

Yes, they use a world sim that will roam on any available network.
I agree there is more to security than that. But if all comms go down why not notify you in a reasonable time?
I really don't get the point of telling you 8 hours later or even after 90 minutes.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Yes, they use a world sim that will roam on any available network.
I agree there is more to security than that. But if all comms go down why not notify you in a reasonable time?
I really don't get the point of telling you 8 hours later or even after 90 minutes.

Would you rather know what the issue is or just be told the connection has been lost to the panel?

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

Yes, they use a world sim that will roam on any available network.
I agree there is more to security than that. But if all comms go down why not notify you in a reasonable time?
I really don't get the point of telling you 8 hours later or even after 90 minutes.

Well, I would recommend to anyone who was that worried about such things as polling that they look at another means of relaying their alarm signal to a professional monitoring station. Rather than self-monitoring a system that is relying on a router to beep someone's phone, while some guy has kicked in their back door.

fred funk }{

altor wrote: »

Would you rather know what the issue is or just be told the connection has been lost to the panel?

Exactly. The problem with the comms lost alert is that it'll be a reletively common alert. Everytime the broadband goes down or a power cut you'll get an alert and I don't think anyone's going to be rushing back to their house from work everytime they get one.

fred funk }{

kub wrote: »

Well, I would recommend to anyone who was that worried about such things as polling that they look at another means of relaying their alarm signal to a professional monitoring station. Rather than self-monitoring a system that is relying on a router to beep someone's phone, while some guy has kicked in their back door.

As has been pointed out before, the polling time is a Red Herring.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Would you rather know what the issue is or just be told the connection has been lost to the panel?

If all comms go down you are not going to know about anything for 8 hours, or at least 90 minutes on the higher rate.
If that happens I,d rather know about it in a few minutes.

KoolKid

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Exactly. The problem with the comms lost alert is that it'll be a reletively common alert. Everytime the broadband goes down or a power cut you'll get an alert and I don't think anyone's going to be rushing back to their house from work everytime they get one.

Not if the system gives smash/grap alerts.

And if you have a GSM/GPRS connection backup would you like to know if all comms fail after 8 hours, 90 minutes, 5 minutes, 1 minute.??

KoolKid

fred funk }{ wrote: »

As has been pointed out before, the polling time is a Red Herring.

And yet people are asked to pay higher rates for an improvement in the red herring??

kub

KoolKid wrote:

And if you have a GSM/GPRS connection backup would you like to know if all comms fail after 8 hours, 90 minutes, 5 minutes, 1 minute.??

KoolKid wrote:

Not if the system gives smash/grap alerts.

If someone carrying out a risk assessment is that concerned then he should be specifying something other than a polling GSM.

fred funk }{

KoolKid wrote: »

Not if the system gives smash/grap alerts.

And if you have a GSM/GPRS connection backup would you like to know if all comms fail after 8 hours, 90 minutes, 5 minutes, 1 minute.??

Burglar cuts phone wire or pulls fuse from meter box. You get comms failure but no alarm activation when they kick the then front door in.

kub

fred funk }{ wrote:

Burglar cuts phone wire or pulls fuse from meter box. You get comms failure but no alarm activation when they kick the then front door in.

While the guy is at work thinking it is the usual broadband failure.
Reminds me of the boy crying wolf.

KoolKid

You know there are people who have monitoring and apps.
My question was if ALL comms fail, regardless of what monitoring options you have, would you like a notification in 8 hours, 90 minutes or 5 minutes or 1 minute?

kub

But if I have installed something else that will relay alarm conditions to a professional monitoring station then polling times would not keep me awake at night.

This 8 hour time you keep harping on about was a lot better then relying on telephone lines. As we know some used to transmit test calls to professional alarm monitoring stations every 24 hours.

If as an installer you have a fear of smash & grab or as you say polling times, then really the onus is on you to specify and install that other unit that will relay alarm signals to monitoring stations regardless of smashing, grabbing, broadband or electrical failures.

I mean if someone has a fear of smash and grab and they have self notification only, then the system is a farce.

KoolKid

You are diverting away from one product and onto a completly different one to justify the poor reaction times on total comms fails.
On one hand you say poll times are irrelevant, but on the other you say you recommend the dearer product with a poll time of 90 minutes.
Whether a customer wants to pay extra for central station monitoring is not the issue.
They have decided they want self monitoring with an app. Now whether they wish to back that up with a duel path with back up GPRS is up to them as long as the product limitations are explained to them.
We all have alarms out there with no monitoring whatsoever
Now, if you had any of the above options with any form of monitoring would you prefer to be notified of all comms failure after 8 hours, 90 minutes or 5 minutes or 1 minute?
There is an old saying in the industry.
It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

fred funk }{

That should be sorted out at the risk assessment stage.

kub

This is the only thing that you keep harping on about in this forum.
Free polling, grand it is free, but at a price if someone's router or electricity goes down and all they get notified after that 1 minute you keep on about is comms failure.
Meanwhile as has been mentioned earlier their home could be raided and all they know is that their system cannot communicate with them.
I do not come on here being apologetic to the best manufacturer of intruder systems on the Irish market, they charge for something, it works for them. Would it be better if it was free?
I do not think so as then we are relying on routers which in my opinion is worse than in the days of phone lines, at least the phone lines kept working when the power went off, routers don't.

It is as I said earlier a farce, if someone is worried about polling times and smash/ grab. If they are that worried then their systems should be professionally monitored and as Fred mentioned should be sorted out at the risk assessment stage.

There is another saying as well, you get what you pay for.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

If all comms go down you are not going to know about anything for 8 hours, or at least 90 minutes on the higher rate.
If that happens I,d rather know about it in a few minutes.

This has already been covered in numerous threads.
I, like everyone else would like to know the second its gone down.

Back to my question:

Would you rather know what the issue is or just be told the connection has been lost to the panel?

KoolKid

fred funk }{ wrote: »

That should be sorted out at the risk assessment stage.

At risk assessment stage we all recommend monitoring. What's that got to do with anything.

KoolKid

kub wrote: »

This is the only thing that you keep harping on about in this forum.
Free polling, grand it is free, but at a price if someone's router or electricity goes down and all they get notified after that 1 minute you keep on about is comms failure.
Meanwhile as has been mentioned earlier their home could be raided and all they know is that their system cannot communicate with them.
I do not come on here being apologetic to the best manufacturer of intruder systems on the Irish market, they charge for something, it works for them. Would it be better if it was free?
I do not think so as then we are relying on routers which in my opinion is worse than in the days of phone lines, at least the phone lines kept working when the power went off, routers don't.

It is as I said earlier a farce, if someone is worried about polling times and smash/ grab. If they are that worried then their systems should be professionally monitored and as Fred mentioned should be sorted out at the risk assessment stage.

There is another saying as well, you get what you pay for.

I'm not sure if you are misiterpeting or simply ignoring my points.
I am talking about multiple comms paths here, noting to with whether it's free or paid for..
Noting to do with whether the power goes off or not.If it's a farce then why are customers being charged higher rates for lower poll times?
So if you have your app with GSM/GPRS back up and all comms fail when would you prefer to get the notifications?

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

This has already been covered in numerous threads.
I, like everyone else would like to know the second its gone down.

Back to my question:

Would you rather know what the issue is or just be told the connection has been lost to the panel?

I'd like to know both if possible, but in the event of comms lost, /failed or blocked prior to any alarm events I'd like to know about it in minutes not hours.

Other than a reason to charge a higher tariff can you give any positive logical reason to waiting 8 hours to notifying someone of all comms lost.?

kub

Time is of the essence right now, but I will follow up later on.

I suppose it goes down to whether the system is an alarm system or a security system

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

I'd like to know both if possible

Exactly, like everyone else, but using a wifi connection only will not inform you if its just a mains fail, just a communication error.

Its the biggest downfall of using a router only for security purposes.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Exactly, like everyone else, but using a wifi connection only will not inform you if its just a mains fail, just a communication error.

Its the biggest downfall of using a router only for security purposes.

Have you read any of this thread?
I have been talking about all comms fails.

KoolKid wrote: »

The whole thing about polling is the notification you get when all the comms goes down,. What use is a SIM/GPRS back up if all comms is down , or taken down, and you hear about it 8 hours later?
What use is even 90 minutes?

KoolKid wrote: »

Yes, they use a world sim that will roam on any available network.
I agree there is more to security than that. But if all comms go down why not notify you in a reasonable time?
I really don't get the point of telling you 8 hours later or even after 90 minutes.

KoolKid wrote: »

If all comms go down you are not going to know about anything for 8 hours, or at least 90 minutes on the higher rate.
If that happens I,d rather know about it in a few minutes.

KoolKid wrote: »

And if you have a GSM/GPRS connection backup would you like to know if all comms fail after 8 hours, 90 minutes, 5 minutes, 1 minute.??

KoolKid wrote: »

You know there are people who have monitoring and apps.
My question was if ALL comms fail, regardless of what monitoring options you have, would you like a notification in 8 hours, 90 minutes or 5 minutes or 1 minute?

KoolKid wrote: »

Now, if you had any of the above options with any form of monitoring would you prefer to be notified of all comms failure after 8 hours, 90 minutes or 5 minutes or 1 minute?

So with a GPRS/WiFi modem and all comms fail you are saying you would like to know about it straightaway or ASAP.

altor wrote: »

This has already been covered in numerous threads.
I, like everyone else would like to know the second its gone down.

But you see no problem with a system that will only notify you after 8 hours or 90 minutes in the event of ALL comms failure.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Have you read any of this thread?

I have, the OP was asking about the price, not polling

You asked me this and I replied already re the polling

KoolKid wrote: »

If all comms go down you are not going to know about anything for 8 hours, or at least 90 minutes on the higher rate.
If that happens I,d rather know about it in a few minutes.

altor wrote: »

This has already been covered in numerous threads.
I, like everyone else would like to know the second its gone down.

KoolKid

But your reply was....

altor wrote: »

Exactly, like everyone else, but using a wifi connection only will not inform you if its just a mains fail, just a communication error.

Its the biggest downfall of using a router only for security purposes.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

But your reply was....

Yes it was my reply as you are pushing a wifi connection that is secured by a mains supply that in most cases can be turned off before entering a premises.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Yes it was my reply as you are pushing a wifi connection that is secured by a mains supply that in most cases can be turned off before entering a premises.

I think you are getting confused with something else..
Perhaps read over the thread again.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

I think you are getting confused with something else..
Perhaps read over the thread again.

Wouldn't say I am:

KoolKid wrote: »

In both cases these polling times are pretty poor compared to what's available for free.

KoolKid

Comparing something is pushing something?
I am baffled as to where you are going with this?
We were discussing polling times vs others on all comms fails but you keep bringing up the free options.

Its very simple,
Some people only want an alarm without any monitoring, thats fine as long as they know its limitations.
Some people want an app on IP only that fine thats fine as long as they know its limitations.
Some people want an app on IP/with back ups only that fine thats fine as long as they know its limitations.
Some people want a full monitored alarm and thats fine as long as they know its limitations.
Some people will go for multiple paths via monitoring & apps.
None of them are going to be perfect. But Its the customer who is paying, or is choosing not to have to pay, its their choice at the end of the day.
But no matter which of the above, or any other option you can think of, if you have a monitoring system thats polling what good reason is there to have all comms fail notifications after 8 hours or even 90 minutes?

kub

As always you have nothing positive to say about HKC, you constantly use polling times as a stick to beat them with. That is about the only thing from a technical perspective that you can say about them.
I have yet to see a thread on here whereby you recommend their products.

Every manufacturer has their weakness's, we all know this, no one is perfect.

HKC are head and shoulders above every other manufacturer out there especially for the Irish domestic market.
HKC charge for polling, end of the story, I have no issues installing their systems, might I add, I also install other manufacturers systems before I am labeled a one trick pony.

Now if there was a way that we could get the GSD or Vanderbilt units with their superior polling times and other novelties that you mentioned to work with a HKC panel then happy days.

But both, as well as all others are only a compromise when all the capabilities and limitations are compared.

fred funk }{

kub wrote: »

As always you have nothing positive to say about HKC, you constantly use polling times as a stick to beat them with. That is about the only thing from a technical perspective that you can say about them.
I have yet to see a thread on here whereby you recommend their products.

Every manufacturer has their weakness's, we all know this, no one is perfect.

HKC are head and shoulders above every other manufacturer out there especially for the Irish domestic market.
HKC charge for polling, end of the story, I have no issues installing their systems, might I add, I also install other manufacturers systems before I am labeled a one trick pony.

Now if there was a way that we could get the GSD or Vanderbilt units with their superior polling times and other novelties that you mentioned to work with a HKC panel then happy days.

But both, as well as all others are only a compromise when all the capabilities and limitations are compared.

BUT BUT WHAT ABOUT THE 8 HOUR POLLING? 😀

altor

fred funk }{ wrote: »

BUT BUT WHAT ABOUT THE 8 HOUR POLLING? 😀

You missed out on tying people into a subscription :eek:

KoolKid

Simply pointing out the facts for the end users. As I said what options they choose are up to themselves.
I am not the one posting constantly one brand is better than all others.

I am still curious though if you have a monitoring system thats polling ,no matter how good any system is ,what good reason is there to have all comms fail notifications only after 8 hours or even 90 minutes?

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

Simply pointing out the facts for the end users. As I said what options they choose are up to themselves.
I am not the one posting constantly one brand is better than all others.

I am still curious though if you have a monitoring system thats polling ,no matter how good any system is ,what good reason is there to have all comms fail notifications only after 8 hours or even 90 minutes?

Polling is only 1 factor to be considered by an end user, there are plenty of others as you well know.
You are not indeed saying one brand is better than the others, we know why that is .
I can safely say that any HKC system we have out there is only utilising the GSM SC as a tool for the end user for their App, other than that they are providing redundancy for the digi.

KoolKid

I am not saying its the only factor.
We all have systems that have different back ups also.
We would also have Apps backing up monitoring to an ARC and apps+gsm backing up monitoring to an ARC.
I am still asking the same question though. If you have a monitoring system thats polling ,no matter how good any system is ,what good reason is there to have all comms fail notifications only after 8 hours or even 90 minutes?
I can see the reasoning for 8 hours is to charge a higher premium, but what good is that or 90 minutes. If you are being charged should it not be a better timing than others?

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

I am not saying its the only factor.
We all have systems that have different back ups also.
We would also have Apps backing up monitoring to an ARC and apps+gsm backing up monitoring to an ARC.
I am still asking the same question though. If you have a monitoring system thats polling ,no matter how good any system is ,what good reason is there to have all comms fail notifications only after 8 hours or even 90 minutes?
I can see the reasoning for 8 hours is to charge a higher premium, but what good is that or 90 minutes. If you are being charged should it not be a better timing than others?

Good, we agree on a few things there, you do know that HKC offers better time polling than those you have mentioned?
Yes again HKC charge for polling, quite obviously I am not HKC so I feel your query should be answered by them.
I always make it quite clear whatever polling times are selected to the client, I have yet to have one who has any complaints.
Others charge for polling too though, don't they? I mean when there is a SIM involved.
Rather than just relying on the vulnerabilities of someone's router.

KoolKid

There are higher poll times available.At even higher charges.
Others charge for polling over multiple paths , but at cheaper rates.
Comparing like with like its €40 per year with notifications after 5 minutes compared to €84 with notification only after 90 minutes
Thats over 50% cheaper and 19 times faster.
Do you not agree notifications on all comms failure is better sooner rather than later?

kub

Of course knowledge of a technical issue with polling is known sooner rather than later.

But that is not going to deter guys from specifying the over all superior product that HKC manufacturer.

KoolKid

You seem more interested in just posting promotional lines of how great one brand is rather than discuss the differences.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

You seem more interested in just posting promotional lines of how great one brand is rather than discuss the differences.

Again you used polling times as a stick to beat HKC with, I have said and we have agreed there are a lot more other things to consider rather than just polling times and I have not as yet come across any other manufacturer who can tick as many boxes as HKC.
I am just saying it as it is.