BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

LXFlyer

Again, this is a scheduling issue.

It’s going to need new rosters with more drivers and buses to resolve.

They may get some additional resources to fill in gaps in the interim, but it will take a number of weeks to come up with a completely new roster to address the scheduling mistakes from the NTA.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123926846#Comment_123926846

So why not reroute either the 23 or 24 through the core city centre up Dorset Street and around by Whitworth Road. That way F Spine could be routed out through Phibsboro.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927412#Comment_123927412

So what would then serve Church Street and link it with Phibsborough? You’d be removing that link - the stops on lower Church Street are very busy.

Remember that with eastern Dame Street and College Green being removed from the possible routings there are now fewer options to route services.

I really don’t think anything else can be added to the O’Connell Street to St Stephen’s Green corridor beyond the A, E and F Spines plus the 19 and 85.

Gardiner Street has multiple radials as it is and no bus priority.

I really don’t see the NTA changing the Spine routing - the question is how you can manage it.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927412#Comment_123927412

In that case Church Street would have a much reduced service.

Ideally the F1 would go through Phibsboro like the 140 did but I know that's against the spine concept.

VG31

Dublin Bus have finally fixed the bus tracking issues and Bus Times is working again.

Daith

I don't see the spine route changing now. They just need to hit the frequency

dfx-

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927472#Comment_123927472

This Is one of the most infuriating things. We must stick with and manage the concept than what commuters want/are used to and were happy with.

Because It could not be the concept that is wrong.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927503#Comment_123927503

The spine concept is fine in theory (with bus priority) but increasing the number of buses using a very congested road was never going to end well.

Would anyone object if they rerouted the F1 through Phibsboro? I doubt it. Providing a good service is more important than sticking rigidly to the spine definition.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927503#Comment_123927503

That's sort of the mentality alright. There's also a hint of classism mixed in. The issues with the network were brought up at consultation but the NTA didn't care / knew better and now it's apparent that there were not enough resources to implement this phase but they done it anyway.

bikeman1

A lot of these issues and complaints would be sorted out if they actually ran the timetabled services in full. You can deal with a bus getting snarled up on a slightly different routing than before, if you are actually on a bus.

Standing out in the rain and cold or whatever with tens of other people, wondering if and when a bus might show up, and when it does, if you can get on is an abject failure of a bus service.

I know why this is happening (timings, drivers, rosters, whatever), but that is simply not good enough when the incumbent services were somewhat holding up the schedule. The amount of partial and full cancellations is not acceptable.

"Perfection is the enemy of the good". Trying to run a perfect service without the resources is making a "good" service s h 1 T €

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123894410#Comment_123894410

In relation to the up to 10 minute timing between Glasilawn Road and Cremore Avenue on the 24, I've noticed that drivers aren't waiting until the scheduled time at these stops. It will be easier to see now that Bus Times is working again but what I've noticed is happening is the 24 will be due in 5 or so minutes at Cremore Avenue then suddenly jump to due because of this timetable padding. People must be missing buses because of this.

It's a ridiculous thing to have in the schedule. The departure times should be moved forward as appropriate.

Fizzy Duck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927467#Comment_123927467

The 23/24 could serve Whitworth Road, Dorset Street, Bolton Street and North King Street to Church Street. The F Spine could then use Phibsboro and Western Way. Would get the 23/24 closer to the Northern part of the City Centre.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927602#Comment_123927602

Traffic and congestion are becoming massive problems - most of the existing cross-city routes are not able to deliver the full timetable simply because the running times are now too tight.

Journey times are extending out the whole time and the ability to deliver the schedule is becoming more and more difficult - you constantly need more buses and staff to deliver the same schedule.

The CBCs cannot come quickly enough.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927619#Comment_123927619

That's why being able to see where a bus physically is located is in my view a key part of the RTPI picture.

And of course, yes that needs to be corrected in the schedules. I spotted that at the outset as a glaring schedule design flaw.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927713#Comment_123927713

That still means no bus going the length of Church Street and Phibsborough Road and nothing between Western Way and North King St.

I’m not sure that would an improvement from a connectivity perspective.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927137#Comment_123927137

Is a partial cancellation when some of the stops are missed out?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927395#Comment_123927395

Is it possible that the roll out of this phase was pushed through to meet deadlines, even though the human resources required to manage the schedule were not in place?

cgcsb

Bus commuters in the Finglas Area have nothing to gain from the cbc unfortunately so that's not going to improve the service. Just get a car is the message here.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927818#Comment_123927818

Yes, for example an F1 only working Parnell Square→IKEA would be counted as a partial cancellation on this site. Its not officially marked as such as far as I'm aware - that site just calculates it based on the stops served by each service.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927716#Comment_123927716

Will the CBCs come with traffic enforecement or will cars still be able to use them without penalty?

If cars are diverted from one route to another because of the CBCs, would we not see other bus routes slowed down as a result of the car diversions?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927840#Comment_123927840

Thanks.

Thats not the same thing as a bus scheduled to complete its standard route, but skipping stops 1 to 5 because its late starting?

A frequent complaint is buses which are not full but dont stop for passengers because they are trying to catch up the schedule.

This really should be considered a service curtailment but i am not sure it is measured anywhere?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927857#Comment_123927857

Buses do not pass stops with passengers on them anymore to make up time. That’s not allowed by the NTA and hasn’t been for some time.

Instead drivers will be directed to go empty from the terminus to a point along the route and take up from there.

The stops before that point will be marked as cancelled.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927847#Comment_123927847

Well the hope is that any legislation required to enable enforcement will be in place.

Some routes will probably be slower, but that is pretty much inevitable given that some of the CBCs involve bus gates which will force general traffic elsewhere.

The tradeoff will be the improved journey times on the Spines which will carry the lion’s share of the passengers.

The Mathematician

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927955#Comment_123927955

That may be true in theory but not in practice. I was waiting for an S6 recently and a bus flew by without stopping (with plenty of space on board). To make things worse, I thought the driver was waving at me meaning tough luck. Anyway, I started walking since otherwise I would have missed the Luas and then my mainline train. I was nearly at the next stop when another S6 passed. I now realise the driver was trying to indicate there was another bus behind but how was I supposed to know that (the bus tracker was only showing one bus)?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927955#Comment_123927955

Thanks, so those stops that were missed out from the schedule do show as cancelled?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123928189#Comment_123928189

Once the controller marks them as such, yes.

That’s how they are showing up as partially cancelled on the website above.

cgcsb

Presumably this clusterf*k means there'll be an even longer lead time on the A and D spines aswell as the O route. There's clearly a resourcing issue.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123928232#Comment_123928232

Is there any public way to measure this?

How many drivers should we have to manage the weekly schedule today and how many drivers do we have in employment?

Similarly, how many drivers do we need to manage the final schedule, including all routes not yet live, and how many additional drivers are required to facilitate this.

Same question for supporting functions like mechanics and so forth.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123928275#Comment_123928275

That's not publicly available information.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123928275#Comment_123928275

Sounds like a question for the people who's actual job is to know.