Leaving dog outside shop.

hcass

We bring our dog (a border collie) everywhere we go. And we don't have a car so we walk a lot. Since we've had her (5 years approx) we have been bringing her to the local shopping centre with us and leaving her outside while we get a few bits and pieces. Never longer than 20 mins (if even). She just sits patiently in a corner at the side door and waits for us. Today my husband was accosted by a woman waiting for him at the door who said she knows people who have called the dog warden several times on our dog and she will be taken off us and we'll be fined for leaving her unattended and not under our control. My husband is worried now and says we won't be able to bring her to the shop with us anymore - I think she is just a cranky cow with nothing better to do and am not concerned at all. Our dog is our pride and joy - she is always by her side and I'm damned if I'm leaving her at home for an hour when she could be out with us just because of this woman's threats. What do you think? Is this illegal? I see loads of people doing it at another shop we go to but not so much this shopping centre (it's more out of the way so not so many walkers)... Thoughts please...

Mod note... Please note that the topic of children left in cars by their guardians is NOT open for discussion in this thread, or in this forum.
Thanks,
DBB

Flibble

Honestly, I applaud that woman. She might have gone about it in an unnecessarily aggressive manner, but she probably was upset knowing your dog is unsafe & seeing it all the time.

Really, OP, you're playing Russian roulette with your dog. Any number of things can & do happen to dogs left outside shops- they could be stolen or attacked, are you not worried about that??

Only a month ago I had to stand with a dog left outside my local lidl because a group of kids were throwing small stones at him & barking at him. The poor thing was really scared. I informed the owner when they came back & they just tutted & walked off.

If you love your dog so much, are you not worried someone will take them?? It's a very, very common occurrence in this country.

Edit to add: if you want to take her with you, do the responsible thing & have one person wait with her & the other go in. That's what I used to do with my dog.

evolving_doors

Who's in charge of your dog while you're inside?

Anyhow here's your responsibilities..
http://www.dspca.ie/DogOwnersLegalResponsiblities

Technically it would be a stray but I doubt any warden is going to go to the trouble.

glenfieldman

I wouldnt and couldnt, I have the most beautiful Jack Russell in the world and I love her too much to leave her alone and unattended. I wouldnt leave one of my kids out side a shop for 20 mins

ButtersSuki

I agree. I do a lot of work with rescues and the stories I've heard would scare and upset most about what happens to dogs who are taken in such circumstances - AND THE REALITY IS THAT DOGS ARE TAKEN EVERY DAY. I will always wait outside a shop etc. if I see a dog left on their own there and (politely) explain the potential consequences of leaving your dog unattended to the owner when they return. I've variously been thanked for informing people or told to F Off and mind my own business.

TBH, I don't care about the legality or otherwise of doing such a thing, I care about the welfare of the dogs. 20mins is an awfully long time to leave a dog unattended in such a place. If someone wanted to steal them, it would take less than 30seconds. And as the previous posted pointed out, that's just oen potential outcome.

Knowing what I know, I personally would never leave any of my dogs unattended in a public place. And I never would have done so prior to hearing about what happens either.

OP, ask yourself how would you feel if someone took your dog and you never saw them again and were always wondering what happened to them? If you truly love your dog as much as you claim you wouldn't want that.

I hope I'm not coming across as agressively as you claim the other person did to your husband, but she has a point and is concerned for the dog - maybe if you look at it like this you can see her point too?

Could I suggest that if you want to walk the dog to the shops BOTH of you go, but one person stays with the dog while the otehr goes into the shops?

eurokev

Totally agree with the woman too.
You're probably a really nice person op, but unfortunately there are people out there who are not.
Anything could happen to your dog. A person might think she's lost, a child may take a fancy to her and lure her away. She could easily get a fright and run away.
Only a few years ago where I'm from warnings went out to warn of a certain ethnic group were putting marks outside people's houses who they knew had dogs and coming back to steal them when the dogs were unattended.
Please don't do it again op

Wesser

I think it's your business if you want to leave the dog there and risk it being stolen and no one elses.

njs030

Wesser wrote: »

I think it's your business if you want to leave the dog there and risk it being stolen and no one elses.

Well she's breaking the law so it is other peoples business

eurokev

Wesser wrote:

I think it's your business if you want to leave the dog there and risk it being stolen and no one elses.

It's not just her business. There are people out there who have to deal with consequences of what happens to dogs. There are people giving money and time to the all to many of the charities who are picking up the pieces. Never mind the dog itself that's also a living domesticated thing who needs to be taken care of.
Really really stupid ignorant post

Rodin

Very interesting the contrast of opinions on leaving a dog alone for 20mins and a baby alone for 5 hours.

eurokev

Rodin wrote:

Very interesting the contrast of opinions on leaving a dog alone for 20mins and a baby alone for 5 hours.

One was a mistake, the other is quite purposely done. You're a bit twisted comparing the two tbh

Wesser

It's not a really stupid ignorant post.
There is no need to get so angry with me.
What I'm saying is that if she wants to stupidly risk all of tbe above nasty things that you have just mentioned then go for it.
I don't think that lady should accost her over it.

Lau2976

Definitely agree with others here op and don't think she's just a "cranky cow".

Your dog deserves better then to be left tied up outside alone, if there's two of you one could easily stay with them, if it's only you or your oh either don't bring the dog or don't go shopping.

Also if the other shop is a newsagent or a small corner shop people are only going to be in there for a minute so there wouldn't be as much risk involved. IMO that's different to leaving your dog outside while you run in for 20 minutes to do a quick shop.

eurokev

Wesser wrote:

It's not a really stupid ignorant post. There is no need to get so angry with me. What I'm saying is that if she wants to stupidly risk all of tbe above nasty things that you have just mentioned then go for it. I don't think that lady should accost her over it.

No you said it was nobody else's business. I demonstrated that it was other people's business. Then informed you of your ignorance of this fact and my belief that you came off as stupid

Rodin

eurokev wrote: »

One was a mistake, the other is quite purposely done. You're a bit twisted comparing the two tbh

Twisted? I don't agree.
One is action, one is omission of action.
Both are wrong.

DBB

Rodin wrote: »

Very interesting the contrast of opinions on leaving a dog alone for 20mins and a baby alone for 5 hours.

This is categorically NOT a direction this thread may go in.
A child left alone in a car is NOT what this discussion is about, and it's NOT what this forum is about.
Do NOT pursue this line of discussion in this thread.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Wesser

There is no need to attack me personally as per the forums charter.
It is clear what my opinion is. Just state your opinion without attacking others

DBB

eurokev wrote: »

No you said it was nobody else's business. I demonstrated that it was other people's business. Then informed you of your ignorance of this fact and my belief that you came off as stupid

Stop this NOW.
Do not disrespect other posters in this way.
This forum invites discussion of differing opinions but without abusing each other.
Disgraceful comments.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Optimalprimerib

Wesser wrote: »

I think it's your business if you want to leave the dog there and risk it being stolen and no one elses.

What if the dog bites someone? Are you responsible or the shop?

Rodin

hcass wrote: »

We bring our dog (a border collie) everywhere we go. And we don't have a car so we walk a lot. Since we've had her (5 years approx) we have been bringing her to the local shopping centre with us and leaving her outside while we get a few bits and pieces. Never longer than 20 mins (if even). She just sits patiently in a corner at the side door and waits for us. Today my husband was accosted by a woman waiting for him at the door who said she knows people who have called the dog warden several times on our dog and she will be taken off us and we'll be fined for leaving her unattended and not under our control. My husband is worried now and says we won't be able to bring her to the shop with us anymore - I think she is just a cranky cow with nothing better to do and am not concerned at all. Our dog is our pride and joy - she is always by her side and I'm damned if I'm leaving her at home for an hour when she could be out with us just because of this woman's threats. What do you think? Is this illegal? I see loads of people doing it at another shop we go to but not so much this shopping centre (it's more out of the way so not so many walkers)... Thoughts please...

Always by your side?
Except when you leave her unattended outside a shopping centre? Tied up no doubt?
Not on at all.

Wesser

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

What if the dog bites someone? Are you responsible or the shop?

You are.id imagine. I'm no lawyer .

average_runner

hcass wrote: »

We bring our dog (a border collie) everywhere we go. And we don't have a car so we walk a lot. Since we've had her (5 years approx) we have been bringing her to the local shopping centre with us and leaving her outside while we get a few bits and pieces. Never longer than 20 mins (if even). She just sits patiently in a corner at the side door and waits for us. Today my husband was accosted by a woman waiting for him at the door who said she knows people who have called the dog warden several times on our dog and she will be taken off us and we'll be fined for leaving her unattended and not under our control. My husband is worried now and says we won't be able to bring her to the shop with us anymore - I think she is just a cranky cow with nothing better to do and am not concerned at all. Our dog is our pride and joy - she is always by her side and I'm damned if I'm leaving her at home for an hour when she could be out with us just because of this woman's threats. What do you think? Is this illegal? I see loads of people doing it at another shop we go to but not so much this shopping centre (it's more out of the way so not so many walkers)... Thoughts please...

Why can't one of ye stay outside the shop with the dog?

busheisha

Some-one cans steal your dog. Sometimes because he or she thinks that ya're bad owner if leave a dog. I don't leave my family dog, but I bring her in some small shops with me)

busheisha

But in the very small willage I left a dog) But that willage is VERY small.

average_runner

busheisha wrote: »

Some-one cans steal your dog. Sometimes because he or she thinks that ya're bad owner if leave a dog. I don't leave my family dog, but I bring her in some small shops with me)

Stealing the dog is the least important, what about it could bite a child.

doolox

My daughter was nearly bitten by a dog tied up outside our local supermarket. She quickly learned to be cautious around strange dogs but it could have been worse if she was actually bitten.

On another occasion some local scumbags were teasing an unattended and tied up dog and it could have gone nasty.

RoisinClare6

Myself and the other half have a 3 year old JRT. We bring her to the shop in the evening with us, but one of us will always wait outside with her. She's so small and anyone could pick her up/harm her or I would be worried if some one hurt her and she bit them. I don't think the lady was a cow but more so concerned for your pup. For all she or anyone knows the dog could just have been abandoned there, need water or things like that.

peasant

just putting this here...



however, in this country I wouldn't leave my dog unsupervised outside a shop either ...we just don't have the same attitude towards dogs here and I'd be worried what might be done to/with it.

CeilingFly

average_runner wrote: »

Stealing the dog is the least important, what about it could bite a child.

That thought process is called catastrophe syndrome.

The child should be under control of a parent or guardian who should act responsibly and not allow the child to antagonise a dog who is highly unlikely to bite anyway - despite what the hysterical types say, dogs biting children is extremely rare. - Especially a collie.

For the op, it really depends on location and whether you think its safe. If two of you are shopping, then maybe the best solution is one to stay outside and then "swap" if that person wants to add items.

Another option is to leave the dog at home for whenever a larger shop is being done and then it means just a couple of minutes if picking something up.

Another alternative is online shopping.


As for the busy body who ranted - ignore them. There are a total of two, yep TWO, dog wardens for all of Fingal and they have far better things to do than to take issue with what seems to be a very well looked after and well loved dog.

Pity some of the aggressive types here didn't read the line stating that the dog goes everywhere with you and never left alone.

alroley

I would never leave my dog outside a shop. He could be stolen. He could get loose and run away/in to the road. He could be teased by people. He could bite said people. It's just not worth it.

freshpopcorn

I have seen people popping into a newsagents to get the paper or into the shop for a bottle of milk and leaving their dog outside but these people could see their dog the whole time. Leaving the dog for twenty minutes is to long in my opinion.

Lau2976

CeilingFly wrote: »

Pity some of the aggressive types here didn't read the line stating that the dog goes everywhere with you and never left alone.

That's not entirely true though is it? The dog is left alone when they're in the shop.

busheisha

Normal dog will NOT bite a child. If a dog is normal. But ya're right that dog must not contact with other humans.
My dream is large cells with lock on the entrance of shop...

mosi

As others have said, maybe that woman approached your husband the wrong way, but she was correct in telling you that your dog should not be left unattended. It really is just too dangerous, it only takes a second for some opportunistic scumbag to steal your dog. It is unfortunately a common enough occurrence, with dogs who have been taken from outside shops often being posted on lost and found sites, sometimes when the owner has only been gone for a few minutes. It's really not worth the risk. I would agree with others who suggest that, if you want to bring your dog to the shops, then one of you should stay outside with her. When we had just the one dog and lived in an apartment, that's what we used to do. We wanted to bring him out at every opportunity, so we would take turns in going into the shop. It never felt like an inconvenience as there was no way either of us wanted to take the risk of our family member being stolen.

AllForIt

Wesser wrote: »

I think it's your business if you want to leave the dog there and risk it being stolen and no one elses.

I don't think you have a right to leave a dog wherever you like. You don't own the post that your tying the dogs leash too therefore I don't think you have a 'right' as such to do that. I also think that it is okay for a person to have a concern for the dog's welfare. Who knows what would happen to it if it was stolen.

I've noticed in my area recently a guy has been tying an adorable dog, a small brown cocker spaniel to the outside of the local TK Max and Tescos. I've seen it several times now and it always has a slightly worried look about it.. But it is an adorable dog and I just felt like picking it up and taking it with me, and wondered if anyone would actually do that.

If I were lucky enough to own a dog like that I don't think I'd go shopping in TK MAX and risk it being stolen. It just looks wrong to me whenever I see it.

OneOfThem Stumbled

People here are being pretty judgemental imo. Just because a dog is left outside a shop doesn't necessarily mean it is being neglected. You aren't likely to ever see dogs that are being neglected.

A dog being left outside for hours is being neglected. That's not what's happening here.

A dog that isn't tied up may wander off and get lost. That's not what's happening here.

The dog may be stolen or attacked, this is true - but depending on the area that you are in this may range from being very likely to very unlikely.

It was not the woman's business in the OP to complain about the dog unless she saw the dog was in distress or had been in some fashion negatively affected by the dog.

Having the dog put into a pound, or forced to stay alone at home would make the dog's life much worse. This should be obvious to anyone.

ShaShaBear

1. A loose dog attacks and mauls your poor, defenseless dog and leaves it needing immediate veterinary treatment, or a hole dug in your back garden.
2. Your dog spots something and feels the overwhelming desire to chase it to the point that it either gets lost or is coating the wheels of some poor, traumatized driver's car.
3. Young children feed it something dangerous.
4. Young children beat it, tease it or let it loose.
5. Young children get bitten because of any of the above.
6. Somebody steals it. Breeds from it. Uses it as bait. Sells it on. Your guess.
7. Someone who actually cares about your dog rings the warden.
8. Your dog gets heat-stroke.
9. You get accosted by a woman who knows you abandon your dog outside a shopping center on numerous occasions and is sick of your lack of care for the poor thing.

Out of these 9 possibilities, I'd say you got off lucky.

MayoSalmon

So leaving my dog outside a shop while I go in and buy the paper and some milk is now classed as neglect...would ya ever cop on!

ShaShaBear

MayoSalmon wrote: »

So leaving my dog outside a shop while I go in and buy the paper and some milk is now classed as neglect...would ya ever cop on!

The OP leaves her dog outside a shopping center for 20 minutes where she cannot see or reach it. Am I right to assume that you can see your dog from the shop and are not taking 20 minutes to buy milk and the paper?

njs030

MayoSalmon wrote: »

So leaving my dog outside a shop while I go in and buy the paper and some milk is now classed as neglect...would ya ever cop on!

Its not neglect but it is illegal, your dog has to be under control at all times and tying it up outside isn't doing that.

What if it's stolen or attacked or hurt?
Its silly and a bit thoughtless but the op doesn't mean anything bad by it.

Wesser

If it is not clear from my posts already.
I do not think it is ok to leave a dog tied up and to have already said that i think tbe dog is at risk of being stolen and other nasty thimgs.

My point is that I do Not, at the same time, think it is ok to be accosted for doing this. I think you shoukd go tut tut in your head and walk on by or at the very most , say nicely, hey guys , you know your dog might be stolen Yeah? But not to accost someone.

You are more likely to be successful.in convincing the dog owner if you say it nicely instead if attacking them .
Maybe I'm making contradictory statements in one sentence? Maybe. But I just don't think that this dog owner should have been accosted in this way. It is an over reaction in my opinion
That is my opinion. .

OneOfThem Stumbled

ShaShaBear wrote: »

1. A loose dog attacks and mauls your poor, defenseless dog and leaves it needing immediate veterinary treatment, or a hole dug in your back garden.
2. Your dog spots something and feels the overwhelming desire to chase it to the point that it either gets lost or is coating the wheels of some poor, traumatized driver's car.
3. Young children feed it something dangerous.
4. Young children beat it, tease it or let it loose.
5. Young children get bitten because of any of the above.
6. Somebody steals it. Breeds from it. Uses it as bait. Sells it on. Your guess.
7. Someone who actually cares about your dog rings the warden.
8. Your dog gets heat-stroke.
9. You get accosted by a woman who knows you abandon your dog outside a shopping center on numerous occasions and is sick of your lack of care for the poor thing.

Out of these 9 possibilities, I'd say you got off lucky.

more possibilities

10. It could be hit by lightning
11. It could choke itself on its leash or rope
12. If there is a fire outside the shopping centre it could be burned or suffocate
13. It could be attacked by bees

ShaShaBear

Wesser wrote: »

If it is not clear from my posts already.
I do not think it is ok to leave a dog tied up and to have already said that i think tbe dog is at risk of being stolen and other nasty thimgs.

My point is that I do Not, at the same time, think it is ok to be accosted for doing this. I think you shoukd go tut tut in your head and walk on by or at the very most , say nicely, hey guys , you know your dog might be stolen Yeah? But not to accost someone.

You are more likely to be successful.in convincing the dog owner if you say it nicely instead if attacking them .
Maybe I'm making contradictory statements in one sentence? Maybe. But I just don't think that this dog owner should have been accosted in this way. It is an over reaction in my opinion
That is my opinion. .

Except the woman has noticed that the OP has done this loads of times, and that the dog warden has been called a few times before. This sounds like a woman with the dog's welfare at heart getting absolutely sick of seeing it happen. It's not a woman noticing it for the first time.

mosi

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

People here are being pretty judgemental imo. Just because a dog is left outside a shop doesn't necessarily mean it is being neglected. You aren't likely to ever see dogs that are being neglected.

I wouldn't class it as being judgemental. To give the OP the benefit of the doubt, I imagine that they may not be aware of the risks involved in leaving their dog outside the shop. Many people aren't and have sadly only learned of those risks the hard way.

OneOfThem Stumbled

mosi wrote: »

I wouldn't class it as being judgemental. To give the OP the benefit of the doubt, I imagine that they may not be aware of the risks involved in leaving their dog outside the shop. Many people aren't and have sadly only learned of those risks the hard way.

That's true, but there are risks to the dog's mental being if left at home for long periods (particularly a breed like a collie). You won't get anybody complaining about that though (out of sight, out of mind, and all that)

Wesser

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Except the woman has noticed that the OP has done this loads of times, and that the dog warden has been called a few times before. This sounds like a woman with the dog's welfare at heart getting absolutely sick of seeing it happen. It's not a woman noticing it for the first time.

Fair enough point

CeilingFly

ShaShaBear wrote: »

1. A loose dog attacks and mauls your poor, defenseless dog and leaves it needing immediate veterinary treatment, or a hole dug in your back garden.
2. Your dog spots something and feels the overwhelming desire to chase it to the point that it either gets lost or is coating the wheels of some poor, traumatized driver's car.
3. Young children feed it something dangerous.
4. Young children beat it, tease it or let it loose.
5. Young children get bitten because of any of the above.
6. Somebody steals it. Breeds from it. Uses it as bait. Sells it on. Your guess.
7. Someone who actually cares about your dog rings the warden.
8. Your dog gets heat-stroke.
9. You get accosted by a woman who knows you abandon your dog outside a shopping center on numerous occasions and is sick of your lack of care for the poor thing.

Out of these 9 possibilities, I'd say you got off lucky.

Look up "catastrophe syndrome" - its a real syndrome and has become more prevalent in this day of social media and hysterical tabloids especially rags such as the mail. People THINK the worst when absolutely no FACTS back those thoughts up. Its especially prevalent when it comes to children and "man in dark car" approaching them - child kidnap by a stranger is so rare that it gets massive publicity for years on end.

The incidences of your 9 scenarios are rare - very rare except that of theft.

For me, the theft scenario is the only one I'd be concerned about, but again that depends on the area and the breed of dog.

gizmo81

I see people do it at our local supermarket, I always feel sad for the dog. My housemate and I normally say hello to the dogs as they normally seem so anxious.

ShaShaBear

mosi wrote: »

I wouldn't class it as being judgemental. To give the OP the benefit of the doubt, I imagine that they may not be aware of the risks involved in leaving their dog outside the shop. Many people aren't and have sadly only learned of those risks the hard way.

On another note, a dog in my hometown that was seen on CCTV being walked in a local park was found tied up outside a shopping center. 20 minutes later he was still there. An hour later he was still there. Four hours later he was still there. That evening, when the shop had long closed, he was still there. Most people "assumed" that the poor pet was just waiting for someone. It wasn't until dark that they realised whoever it was wasn't coming. It wouldn't take much to get held up in a shop and on a particularly hot day (we are known to have them) someone might put dog welfare first and take it to a safe place presumed abandoned.

CeilingFly

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Except the woman has noticed that the OP has done this loads of times, and that the dog warden has been called a few times before. This sounds like a woman with the dog's welfare at heart getting absolutely sick of seeing it happen. It's not a woman noticing it for the first time.

Sounds like one hell of a hysterical busy body spouting bullsh1t.

ShaShaBear

CeilingFly wrote: »

Look up "catastrophe syndrome" - its a real syndrome and has become more prevalent in this day of social media and hysterical tabloids especially rags such as the mail. People THINK the worst when absolutely no FACTS back those thoughts up. Its especially prevalent when it comes to children and "man in dark car" approaching them - child kidnap by a stranger is so rare that it gets massive publicity for years on end.

The incidences of your 9 scenarios are rare - very rare except that of theft.

For me, the theft scenario is the only one I'd be concerned about, but again that depends on the area and the breed of dog.

I think you'll find that the chances of a tied-down dog encountering less than polite children or another reactive dog off-lead is way higher than the dog actually being stolen. The dog running after something is probably one of the highest - given the dog is a border collie and it's sorta their entire purpose to chase.