Annual leave rostering

Political Wall Map

Hi all

This is my first time posting on this section.

Are there any rules or laws or practices that mean holidays can be given out based on seniority in a workplace. I am working in a garage, as a mechanic, unionised.

I am one of the junior men. There are four lads that started since December 16. Basically as it stands in the garage, if i book a holiday months in advance, and a few months later a senior man wants the holiday, he can take it and i would either lose my holiday/money paid etc etc, or i would have to try find somebody to cover me.

It was suggested that this be changed to a first come first served basis in the interest of fairness. But the older more senior lads obviously rejected this. One of the senior men is very friendly with the union man. He has said that everyone is happy with the current system, when in actual fact when i have asked lads, they have said they are not happy with it.

What is the best way to approach the situation.

Thanks

Mark

davo10

Holiday leave dates are at the discretion of your employer so if your employer has a policy based on seniority then that is the way it works.

See "Rules"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html

amcalester

davo10 wrote: »

Holiday leave dates are at the discretion of your employer so if your employer has a policy based on seniority then that is the way it works.

See "Rules"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html

But once approved can an employer cancel the leave?

That seems to be what is happening here.

Atlantic Dawn

Sounds like a brutal place to work, they should in the interest of fairness ask everyone in say January when they want to take holidays for the year and let people box off their weeks they want to take with those senior staff having priority first selection, then you make your selection and book your holiday around that, if they change their mind then they have to work around your selection.

Cloudio9

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Sounds like a brutal place to work, they should in the interest of fairness ask everyone in say January when they want to take holidays for the year and let people box off their weeks they want to take with those senior staff having priority first selection, then you make your selection and book your holiday around that, if they change their mind then they have to work around your selection.

Yes, if you're going to run a seniority system then this seems like the fairest way to do it.


I think it would be fairer still if people took turns each year to take first pick.

dudara

amcalester wrote: »

But once approved can an employer cancel the leave?

That seems to be what is happening here.

Yes, an employer can cancel previously approved leave, but this should (IMO) only be a extreme resort, and they should compensate you for any financial loss incurred as a result of the cancellation. Additionally your employer is supposed to consider your family responsibilities and other factors when making a decision on your annual leave.

I took a quick look online and I can't find anything specific to guide you on this. I'd recommend contacting NERA for specific advice.

Political Wall Map

Hi all, thanks for the reply.

The problem actually isnt the management. Its the more senior men in the garage. There has been new guidelines handed down to the garage supervisors, and there is a limit of 3 mechanics allowed off at any time.

We have no problem with that. But the fact that if we book holidays off months in advance, the senior man can claim them last minute in the current system and we would lose the holiday.

I challenged this, being the hero that I am. But the senior men, including the garage union rep opposed to what i suggested, quoting old custom and practices that exist in the garage blah blah blah.

Absolute w*&^kers in fairness.

Thanks

mahamageehad

This sounds like a bizarre system.

It's normal in many offices to give first pick to the more senior people, but telling someone at the last minute that they need to change their holiday isn't on. It only happened to me once due to a work emergency, and my company refunded the price of flights and hotel that I lost out on. Lots of people book holidays long in advance and pay away at them, what happens in that situation? Or, what if someone booked their time off to get married and go on honeymoon and a more senior lad decided he wanted that time instead?

First preference isn't really an issue, revoking granted holidays on a whim is!

Political Wall Map

Yeah and thats my problem with whole thing. I cant imagine it being done during a wedding i think the lads would know better than to do that.

But in general with the holidays, a lad can have the holiday paid off, and a senior man could claim the days.

Had happened in the past. But the supervisors were able to accomadate the lad, but the workload on other people increased. And as a result the garage fell behind I'm told.

So to gaurd against this, the company has released a plan of the amount of people from each grade that can be off at any stage. But this is were the junior men fear the senior men could really screw over lads then by claiming rhe days, and the supervisors cant really do anything to accomodate you.

An absolute joke. But ill fight it on behalf of the lads and see how it goes. I was hoping there would be fairness and equality grounds it could be fought on if needed be.

Thanks.

dudara

If you start submitting claims for refunds of expenses incurred, deposits lost etc as a result of this practice, it might make management cop on.

If the union man isn't being helping, if contact the trade union directly and ask them for their opinion on this.

_Brian

The problem is if they apply the system rigidly to everyone then they are within their rights to have any system they please..

Employers are allowed cancel leave, leave is at the discretion of the employer.


To me is seems not worth the bother working in such a place and I'd be looking about for other employment.. The "old guard" will likely fight any change as they have serious perk in booking holidays whenever they please..

TheDoc

Sounds like you are in a franchise garage, as an independent the lads would be sorting it out among themselves and there is less piss taking.

The seniority thing sounds a big bollox to be fair, they arn't even employed there a year according to you. And some people saying that is common, it's not really. Holidays are pretty simple to manage. First come first serve, ensuring that there is adequate resourcing, if someone comes late when things are tight you try to accommodate them as best you can. If it doesn't look good, ask them to see if they can sort something out in the team/roster/swops.

Cancelling someones approved holidays on a whim is for absolute emergencies. And even then, I havn't come across a situation enough where it was such an emergency it had to happen.

If you are part of the union and pay for the privilege, get onto them. It's what you pay them for. Well...you actually pay them to secure the status of the old guard, which one day you might be apart off. Only thing I'll say is while it might be righteous sounding and you'll get applause for tackling it here, make sure you are ready to walk away or move job if it doesn't work out. The amount of fallout I've seen from inter staff disputes via Unions is absolutely crazy. Was subject to what you would now call "bullying" myself over a Union issue.