The end for petrol and diesel vehicles.

tayto lover

Very interesting article -
https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2017/0520/876698-petrol-and-diesel-engines-have-a-lifespan-of-only-8-years/

Is it coming so fast though?



Content added by moderator so we can understand what this is about before having to click links

Professor Tony Seba doesn't mince his words when talking about the end of petrol and diesel. Conventional transport - from cars to buses and trucks - is facing a tsunami of change and by 2025 everything on four wheels will be electrically-powered, he argues.

He also predicts that there will be a "mass-stranding of existing vehicles", that the value of second-hand cars will plummet, that people will have to pay to get rid of their cars and that by 2024 there won't be any car dealers in business anymore. The latter claim seems well justified by the decision of Tesla not to have any dealers but to sell directly to customers.

colm_mcm

That journalist is clueless. Not saying he's wrong in this case but he published an article on the Hyundai Ioniq that was utter drivel and full of misinformation. This is just a regurgitated press release.

Dero

Electric tractors? It's going to take a hell of a jump in battery technology before that happens.

Thelomen Toblackai

8 years isn't really fast given how quickly new technologies are being brought to the market.

There was an article I read related to AI which talked about the growth of technologies and how must faster things can change. How the advancement in the last 10 years is greater than that of the previous 20 years which was greater than the previous 50 > 100 > 1000 > 10000 etc etc.

The conclusion was the next 5 years are likely to bring changes so quickly that they will advance areas more in that time than than the previous decade. And given the huge investment and advancement in renewable energy I'd well believe in the next 8 years we'll see the demise of the fossil fuels everywhere.

Sam Kade

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

8 years isn't really fast given how quickly new technologies are being brought to the market.

There was an article I read related to AI which talked about the growth of technologies and how must faster things can change. How the advancement in the last 10 years is greater than that of the previous 20 years which was greater than the previous 50 > 100 > 1000 > 10000 etc etc.

The conclusion was the next 5 years are likely to bring changes so quickly that they will advance areas more in that time than than the previous decade. And given the huge investment and advancement in renewable energy I'd well believe in the next 8 years we'll see the demise of the fossil fuels everywhere.

Renewable energy won't be taking over any time soon. Wind turbines cost more to make and maintain than the electricity they produce.

tabby aspreme

How many tonnes of batteries would an
artic need to power it for four hours, there would be a big drop in payload.
I see a new LPG powered Daf truck bringing malted barley from Athy to Guinness's regularly.

kyote00

Not much has changed for electric cars in 100 years - actually looks like range was better in 1911 ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Electric

colm_mcm

We're talking about all petrol/diesel vehicles being gone at this stage. Not just everyone buying new electric vehicles?

Sam Kade

tabby aspreme wrote: »

How many tonnes of batteries would an
artic need to power it for four hours, there would be a big drop in payload.
I see a new LPG powered Daf truck bringing malted barley from Athy to Guinness's regularly.

A 40 tonne battery.

Thelomen Toblackai

Sam Kade wrote: »

Renewable energy won't be taking over any time soon. Wind turbines cost more to make and maintain than the electricity they produce.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. There's huge investment going into renewable energy and the cost to market for solar and wind is currently cheaper than some fossil fuels.

Countries, states and companies are also moving away from using fossil fuels and towards 100% renewable energy targets.

Technology advances incredibly fast when there's money put behind it and a market for it and it's pretty clear the money and market is shifting rapidly away from fossil fuels.

If you look at the advancement and uptake in the last 5 years in relation to renewable energy production, energy storage and electric transport as well as the drop in cost of all those things due to technological advancement then in 8 years things will have changed a lot and could very well have left fossil fuels behind or be a long way down the road of doing it.

oppenheimer1

The article the Prof wrote doesn't stand up from an economic argument anyway. If the price of oil collapses that will make ICE more competitive vs EV. Furthermore low cost EV travel will lead to huge traffic congestion therefore the price of EV usage will have to rise massively.

Only government policy will drive the conversion to EV, not the market alone in the next ten years.

There would need to be two orders of magnitude increase in energy density in battery technology for electric trucks to be realistic. Otherwise all they'll be hauling is their own batteries.

DublinDilbert

Dero wrote: »

Electric tractors? It's going to take a hell of a jump in battery technology before that happens.

Why so? Electric vehicles have been used in material handling industries for years, long before the latest motor or battery technologies.

The likes of Die Handlers in metal foundries can shift huge loads all day. Low speed, high torque, very smooth power delivery, electric is ideal for this.

bazz26

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

dr.fuzzenstein

I wonder what those electric cargo ships and planes will look like...

run_Forrest_run

Read the article in the Sindo, I loved the 500k - 1 million mile warranty hinted.

Dero

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Why so? Electric vehicles have been used in material handling industries for years, long before the latest motor or battery technologies.

The likes of Die Handlers in metal foundries can shift huge loads all day. Low speed, high torque, very smooth power delivery, electric is ideal for this.

There's no issue with using electric power for tractors; indeed the torque and power delivery would be ideal, especially for heavy draft applications. However, as mentioned in relation to trucks, the workload of a typical contractors tractor would require it to carry many times it's own weight in batteries to sustain a full day. Like I said, it will take a significant jump in battery capacity for electric tractors to be practical. It will happen, and it may happen by 2025, but I doubt it will be that soon.

ELM327

There's already a prototype EV tractor from John Deere, with 4 hours run time.
Tesla are rumoured to be working on a Semi/Artic aswell.

The world of automotive transport will be a very different place in 5 years to now.

Look back to the start of this decade, there was no form of transport other than fossil cars. Now it's possible to do 50-60k km per year without burning any fossil fuel at all. I know I do! In 5 years time we will have faster charging, longer range EVs and I would guess that 30-35% minimum of our national fleet will have a plug. Petrol and Diesel will be above the €2 per litre mark, and diesel will be more expensive due to punitive EU taxation.

The reason that there were longer range EV's in the 90's compared to some of today's 1st gen EV's is because Big Oil bought the patents to the NiMh battery, halting progress with the Rav4EV, the EV1 etc.

oppenheimer1

ELM327 wrote: »

There's already a prototype EV tractor from John Deere, with 4 hours run time.
Tesla are rumoured to be working on a Semi/Artic aswell.

The world of automotive transport will be a very different place in 5 years to now.

Look back to the start of this decade, there was no form of transport other than fossil cars. Now it's possible to do 50-60k km per year without burning any fossil fuel at all. I know I do! In 5 years time we will have faster charging, longer range EVs and I would guess that 30-35% minimum of our national fleet will have a plug. Petrol and Diesel will be above the ?2 per litre mark, and diesel will be more expensive due to punitive EU taxation.

The reason that there were longer range EV's in the 90's compared to some of today's 1st gen EV's is because Big Oil bought the patents to the NiMh battery, halting progress with the Rav4EV, the EV1 etc.

A tractor would need a 16hr run time whilst delivering power to attached machinery. The light footed granny coaxing you see with leafs on the motorway today won't cut it in agriculture.

The electric car is still an awful compromise today. Three stops or an extra hour and a half to get from Finglas to the Slieve Russell in Cavan... No thanks, the product is not ready yet.

Mr.David

VW certainly doesn't agree

http://www.dw.com/en/vw-combustion-engine-far-from-dead/a-38633065

Tabnabs

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I wonder what those electric cargo ships and planes will look like...

The ships currently look pretty conventional, here's the first one built three years ago.

The advanced vessel operates on a 5.7km crossing in the Sognefjord between the villages of Lavik and Oppedal. It makes approximately 34 trips a day, each trip requiring approximately 20 minutes, excluding the 10min of loading and unloading time for cars and passengers.

http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/norled-zerocat-electric-powered-ferry/

This is what is planned for the next five years for battery powered ships.


this ship will be fully automated and remotely operated by 2020.


The next generation of cruise ships, hybrid engines, due for delivery 2018.

oppenheimer1

Tabnabs wrote: »

The ships currently look pretty conventional, here's the first one built three years ago.



This is what is planned for the next five years for battery powered ships.

Did you even read what you posted? It's a small ferry doing a 5.7km trip. Not exactly Hong Kong to Rotterdam is it?

ELM327

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

A tractor would need a 16hr run time whilst delivering power to attached machinery. The light footed granny coaxing you see with leafs on the motorway today won't cut it in agriculture.

The electric car is still an awful compromise today. Three stops or an extra hour and a half to get from Finglas to the Slieve Russell in Cavan... No thanks, the product is not ready yet.

132km as per google. I have done 132km on one charge at 90km/h country roads. You could do it at 120km/h with a 10 minute stop at the navan FCP.

And I have an old (2014) Leaf. In an Ioniq/ZE40 Zoe/30kwh leaf you could do that trip at 120km/h+ without stopping.

https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/Finglas,+Co.+Dublin/Slieve+Russell+Hotel,+Cranaghan,+County+Cavan/@53.7258416,-7.4894529,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x48670dfbb0d2291d:0x2600c7a819b93051!2m2!1d-6.2984007!2d53.390325!1m5!1m1!1s0x485e6c63239bacf3:0xa21fef0141daa8cf!2m2!1d-7.5574705!2d54.0975892

oppenheimer1

ELM327 wrote: »

132km as per google. I have done 132km on one charge at 90km/h country roads. You could do it at 120km/h with a 10 minute stop at the navan FCP.

And I have an old (2014) Leaf. In an Ioniq/ZE40 Zoe/30kwh leaf you could do that trip at 120km/h+ without stopping.

https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/Finglas,+Co.+Dublin/Slieve+Russell+Hotel,+Cranaghan,+County+Cavan/@53.7258416,-7.4894529,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x48670dfbb0d2291d:0x2600c7a819b93051!2m2!1d-6.2984007!2d53.390325!1m5!1m1!1s0x485e6c63239bacf3:0xa21fef0141daa8cf!2m2!1d-7.5574705!2d54.0975892

Sorry, I misread his post. Two stops.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103055025&postcount=201

Just a mere 3.5 to 4hr North Dublin - Cavan journey.

ELM327

He had just bought the leaf and was being overcautious.
Hardly a fair example.

Tabnabs

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Did you even read what you posted? It's a small ferry doing a 5.7km trip. Not exactly Hong Kong to Rotterdam is it?

So, the technology of a few years ago allows a non stop 194km service (they charge it overnight, not every trip :rolleyes:)

The technology of today is building an unmanned and remotely controlled feeder ship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VBD7hVRhx0

Once this technology is proven, they scale it up to ocean going vessels.



Within ten years this will be a reality. But perhaps you know more about Maritime Autonomous Systems and would care to refute the points?

tabby aspreme

ELM327 wrote: »

There's already a prototype EV tractor from John Deere, with 4 hours run time.
Tesla are rumoured to be working on a Semi/Artic aswell.

The world of automotive transport will be a very different place in 5 years to now.

Look back to the start of this decade, there was no form of transport other than fossil cars. Now it's possible to do 50-60k km per year without burning any fossil fuel at all. I know I do! In 5 years time we will have faster charging, longer range EVs and I would guess that 30-35% minimum of our national fleet will have a plug. Petrol and Diesel will be above the €2 per litre mark, and diesel will be more expensive due to punitive EU taxation.

You personally may not be burning any fossil fuel but the ESB are doing it for you , 4.5 million tonnes pa of Co2 in Moneypoint alone, and they have to keep it running in case the wind stops blowing .
I think EVs are great but we need more solar and battery bank technology to get the full potential from them

ELM327

tabby aspreme wrote: »

You personally may not be burning any fossil fuel but the ESB are doing it for you , 4.5 million tonnes pa of Co2 in Moneypoint alone, and they have to keep it running in case the wind stops blowing .
I think EVs are great but we need more solar and battery bank technology to get the full potential from them

This is an interesting webpage regarding our energy mix http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/#roi


With fully 100% renewable energy from my work chargepoint, the vast majority of my miles are on 0 emissions well to wheel.

As for home charging, the electricity is produced whether I drive or not.
Pretty much all my charging is done either at the work CP which is 100% green electricity, or alternatively at home on night rate, when the power stations have spare capacity and the electricity is wasted if not used.


Your move.

oppenheimer1

ELM327 wrote: »

This is an interesting webpage regarding our energy mix http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/#roi


With fully 100% renewable energy from my work chargepoint, the vast majority of my miles are on 0 emissions well to wheel.

As for home charging, the electricity is produced whether I drive or not.
Pretty much all my charging is done either at the work CP which is 100% green electricity, or alternatively at home on night rate, when the power stations have spare capacity and the electricity is wasted if not used.


Your move.

100% fully renewable at work? Your work charge point is completely off grid? That is fairly unique in Ireland.

Electricity is not wasted if it is not used. Capacity is ramped up and down to match demand. It's the floating capacity that is inefficient because it has to be quick starting.

ELM327

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

100% fully renewable at work? Your work charge point is completely off grid? That is fairly unique in Ireland.

Electricity is not wasted if it is not used. Capacity is ramped up and down to match demand. It's the floating capacity that is inefficient because it has to be quick starting.

100% green energy. The site is run from 100% green energy. From wind, solar etc. Not off grid. It is possible to purchase from the grid (at higher cost) only renewable energy.

The powerplants are kept running, but the production exceeds actual demand, due to further demand spikes anticipated later in the day. Is that not wasted? Think carefully now.

oppenheimer1

ELM327 wrote: »

100% green energy. The site is run from 100% green energy. From wind, solar etc. Not off grid. It is possible to purchase from the grid (at higher cost) only renewable energy.

The powerplants are kept running, but the production exceeds actual demand, due to further demand spikes anticipated later in the day. Is that not wasted? Think carefully now.

That's really only a thought experiment. Once power is on the grid you don't know where it has come from. It's like saying no nuclear generated electricity will be imported over the interconnector.

Production cannot exceed demand as it will damage the grid. Generators are loaded/unloaded as required

ELM327

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

That's really only a thought experiment. Once power is on the grid you don't know where it has come from. It's like saying no nuclear generated electricity will be imported over the interconnector.

Production cannot exceed demand as it will damage the grid. Generators are loaded/unloaded as required

I have worked in 2 commercial energy supply companies. I assure you it is not a thought experiment. If you produce green energy (or purchase it) it can be sold at a higher price because companies want to be seen to be green.


And when a generator is left running if it's unloaded? Is that not a waste? Why do you think there is a cheaper night rate?

oppenheimer1

ELM327 wrote: »

I have worked in 2 commercial energy supply companies. I assure you it is not a thought experiment. If you produce green energy (or purchase it) it can be sold at a higher price because companies want to be seen to be green.


And when a generator is left running if it's unloaded? Is that not a waste? Why do you think there is a cheaper night rate?

When a generator is unloaded it is not energising the grid. You specifically said that the grid was oversupplied at night and implying that electricity was being dumped (e.g. a heating coil in the sea). What actually happens at night is that quick start gen sets (inefficient) are turned off in periods of low demand and and larger combined cycle gen sets (efficient) do not run at full capacity. The reason for night rate is twofold, it is more efficient to run the combined cycle at near full capacity and the lower night rate encourages load shifting from daylight to night time, helping to balance demand over 24 hrs and reduce peak output and thus peak capacity required on grid.

And yes it is a thought experiment. An extreme example will illustrate the point but it is true for the Irish grid. An energy supplier supplies a remote island and on the mainland it has an entirely renewable supply, but the island is isolated from the mainland and has its own diesel gen set. Islanders can still buy renewable energy from the mainland grid as long as someone else matches their demand by buying fossil fuel from theirs. The grids do not need to be physically connected - it is simply a monetary transaction. The islanders can say they buy green electricity, but in reality their electricity comes from a diesel generator.

But since you've worked for two commercial energy suppliers, you know all this.

ELM327

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

When a generator is unloaded it is not energising the grid. You specifically said that the grid was oversupplied at night and implying that electricity was being dumped (e.g. a heating coil in the sea). What actually happens at night is that quick start gen sets (inefficient) are turned off in periods of low demand and and larger combined cycle gen sets (efficient) do not run at full capacity. The reason for night rate is twofold, it is more efficient to run the combined cycle at near full capacity and the lower night rate encourages load shifting from daylight to night time, helping to balance demand over 24 hrs and reduce peak output and thus peak capacity required on grid.

And yes it is a thought experiment. An extreme example will illustrate the point but it is true for the Irish grid. An energy supplier supplies a remote island and on the mainland it has an entirely renewable supply, but the island is isolated from the mainland and has its own diesel gen set. Islanders can still buy renewable energy from the mainland grid as long as someone else matches their demand by buying fossil fuel from theirs. The grids do not need to be physically connected - it is simply a monetary transaction. The islanders can say they buy green electricity, but in reality their electricity comes from a diesel generator.

But since you've worked for two commercial energy suppliers, you know all this.

So why then, is there a paper trail and record showing the green energy being supplied and purchased by the energy supply company and then resold.

Your pie in the sky example is not really representative of actuality. But I suspect you already know this

oppenheimer1

ELM327 wrote: »

So why then, is there a paper trail and record showing the green energy being supplied and purchased by the energy supply company and then resold.

Your pie in the sky example is not really representative of actuality. But I suspect you already know this

When I buy 100kWh of renewable energy from my supplier all that means is that they have bought 100kWh of renewables on my behalf at some time. It doesn't mean that electricity is coming straight from the wind turbine to my socket.

Its an accounting exercise, and it has to work this way because renewables are intermittent.

ELM327

Of course it does not mean that you purchase and they deliver the renewable energy specifically to you.
That would not be logistically possible.

However it means that as you purchased 100kWh of renewable energy, 100kWh of renewable energy was sent to the grid and purchased by your supplier. So 100kWh of renewable energy was used. Notionally it was used by you but this may not be practically the case.

Of course there is not a way to direct specific units of renewable energy directly to your plug, there is no specific renewable grid. All that is done is alter the percentage of renewables that are supplied/bought/sold.
If that's what you meant initially then I agree with you.

oppenheimer1

ELM327 wrote: »

Of course it does not mean that you purchase and they deliver the renewable energy specifically to you.
That would not be logistically possible.

However it means that as you purchased 100kWh of renewable energy, 100kWh of renewable energy was sent to the grid and purchased by your supplier. So 100kWh of renewable energy was used. Notionally it was used by you but this may not be practically the case.

Of course there is not a way to direct specific units of renewable energy directly to your plug, there is no specific renewable grid. All that is done is alter the percentage of renewables that are supplied/bought/sold.
If that's what you meant initially then I agree with you.

But what that means that in reality: if you plug in to charge on a cold calm starry night in winter, the majority of the energy you're putting into your battery is derived from the burning of coal at Moneypoint.

pwurple

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

100% fully renewable at work? Your work charge point is completely off grid? That is fairly unique in Ireland.

Naw, not unique. I don't know where ELM works, but it's the same in some of the places I work. Renewables on site produce between 140% and 200% of the sites electrical demand. I charge my car when I'm based there. It's fairly common in newer facilities, I know of 3 places around Cork's industrial hubs doing it. Anywhere you see the big wind turbines down around the lower harbour area for example.

They tend to be pretty loud and proud about it, charts showing performance on their intranets etc.

Anyway, yeah, the free fuel for me is pretty sweet. Keep it coming.

Ireland's pretty good for wind, especially on the west coast. Don't think I've ever seen it drop to zero.

oppenheimer1

pwurple wrote: »

Naw, not unique. I don't know where ELM works, but it's the same in some of the places I work. Renewables on site produce between 140% and 200% of the sites electrical demand. I charge my car when I'm based there. It's fairly common in newer facilities, I know of 3 places around Cork's industrial hubs doing it. Anywhere you see the big wind turbines down around the lower harbour area for example.

They tend to be pretty loud and proud about it, charts showing performance on their intranets etc.

Anyway, yeah, the free fuel for me is pretty sweet. Keep it coming.

Ireland's pretty good for wind, especially on the west coast. Don't think I've ever seen it drop to zero.

If renewable self generation can meet demand at all times then fair enough, you can say your car is powered by 100% green energy. However I doubt this is the case and these sites regularly fall back on the grid to supplement supply.

pwurple

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If renewable self generation can meet demand at all times then fair enough, you can say your car is powered by 100% green energy. However I doubt this is the case and these sites regularly fall back on the grid to supplement supply.

Even if it was just off the grid though, that's a minimum of what.. 15% renewable on a slack wind day? Inniscarra etc keep pumping it out after all.

Whatever a fossil fuel vehicle does, it can't even get to 1%.

But yeah, my car isn't 100% green energy supplied, I wouldn't even aspire to it to be honest. I drive EV because I'm a money-lovin' capitalist who hates paying tax.

It saves me a small fortune in tax, fuel, servicing etc. The green credentials are a secondary notion for me.

oppenheimer1

pwurple wrote: »

Even if it was just off the grid though, that's a minimum of what.. 15% renewable on a slack wind day? Inniscarra etc keep pumping it out after all.

Whatever a fossil fuel vehicle does, it can't even get to 1%.

But yeah, my car isn't 100% green energy supplied, I wouldn't even aspire to it to be honest. I drive EV because I'm a money-lovin' capitalist who hates paying tax.

It saves me a small fortune in tax, fuel, servicing etc. The green credentials are a secondary notion for me.

Actually it can. Afaik diesel in Ireland is a bio fuel blend.

Your points are fair enough. I was just refuting the point the other poster made that his car was powered by 100% renewables as he charged at work.

Bushmanpm

IIRC, wind turbines have a diesel engine to keep the blades turning when there's no wind so as to avoid 'Flat Spots'
Hahahahahahahaha
Screw EV's, V8's or motorbikes till I die!

pwurple

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Actually it can. Afaik diesel in Ireland is a bio fuel blend.

Your points are fair enough. I was just refuting the point the other poster made that his car was powered by 100% renewables as he charged at work.

5% biofuel though does not mean 5% energy though. Your typical brand new diesel engine is what... 40 to 45% efficient? ~30% for the petrol.

Your typical EV is around 200Wh/km, which is an equivalent efficiency of 2.0L/100km (or 141mpg assuming diesel fuel. )

oppenheimer1

Tabnabs wrote: »

So, the technology of a few years ago allows a non stop 194km service (they charge it overnight, not every trip :rolleyes:)

They do actually do a top up charge after every trip. The ferry has a 1000kWh battery and drives 2x450kW motors. It could make 2 possibly 3 trips without a top up.

Maybe you should check your sources before throwing out the rolleyes :rolleyes:

IrishHomer

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2017/0520/876698-petrol-and-diesel-engines-have-a-lifespan-of-only-8-years/

riddles

With the impending increase in take up in electric cars - would it be better to run my 141 diesel accord with 65K KM on it into the ground and transition to electric post 2020 rather than upgrade to something now?

zilog_jones

It really depends if the current EVs suit you in terms of range, and how much driving you do. Running costs are substantially lower, so there is potential for return on investment over a few years. You'll probably get better advice here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1634

oppenheimer1

riddles wrote: »

With the impending increase in take up in electric cars - would it be better to run my 141 diesel accord with 65K KM on it into the ground and transition to electric post 2020 rather than upgrade to something now?

If you believe Prof. Seba you are best waiting until post 2021 to make a decision as that's when he believes TaaS will take off negating the need for car ownership of any type.

kyote00

141 with 65k kms is about 22-25k kms per year...

If you change to electric now - assume nissan leaf with 200km range, you will need to recharge it 125 times each year ....... if it takes 5.5hrs to fully charge then you will spend ~28 days charging it per annum...

If you can do this at home each evening its might be ok .... otherwise :eek:

Personally, I find it hard to believe the 2020 date as I doubt the charging infrastructure will be ready, Opec will ramp up oil production to collapse the price of oil and the interior and exterior design of these cars needs major improvement

riddles wrote: »

With the impending increase in take up in electric cars - would it be better to run my 141 diesel accord with 65K KM on it into the ground and transition to electric post 2020 rather than upgrade to something now?

riddles

the round trip to work is about 150K a day on average 3 days per week. There are charge points in work but I haven't looked into how they are managed and the Leaf's seem to be multiplying as a result - right now there are four points available.

ELM327

kyote00 wrote: »

141 with 65k kms is about 22-25k kms per year...

If you change to electric now - assume nissan leaf with 200km range, you will need to recharge it 125 times each year ....... if it takes 5.5hrs to fully charge then you will spend ~28 days charging it per annum...

If you can do this at home each evening its might be ok .... otherwise :eek:

Personally, I find it hard to believe the 2020 date as I doubt the charging infrastructure will be ready, Opec will ramp up oil production to collapse the price of oil and the interior and exterior design of these cars needs major improvement

Lots of innaccurate assumptions there.
Leaf can take 4 hours from empty (with the6.6kw) or 8 hours from empty (with the 3.3kw). The range is not 200km, it's 110-130. However it is likely that the vast majority of the charging is done incidentally - ie without you waiting for the car. I do ~1000km per week. I usually have no more than 3 fast charges in that week when I am waiting for the car. Often it's just 10 minutes to get a quick topup on the way home. At 45 minutes charging per 1000km, thats approximately 18 hours charging time per year. A far stretch from 28 days.


My leaf does most of its charging when parked at work or in my drive.