Leaf value

obi604

Hi,

In regard to the below car. It seems very cheap for a 3 year old car.

Is it because people don't simply want them due to the limited range

OR

The battery outside of the warranty is not worth the risk.


Or something else.


http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/nissan/leaf/used-2014-141-983571983515-dublin-fpa-1583969883974249270

Gumbo

Nice car and very good value for money and a great entry into EV world.
I wouldn't say it's cheap, it's the normal price for the mid spec Leaf.

It doesn't have Leather, BOSE, LED Lights like the SVE so that is reflected in price.

obi604

kceire wrote: »

Nice car and very good value for money and a great entry into EV world.
I wouldn't say it's cheap, it's the normal price for the mid spec Leaf.

It doesn't have Leather, BOSE, LED Lights like the SVE so that is reflected in price.

Right. But then you see a 2014 focus and they are averaging about 16,000 Euro.

Why are they a lot more expensive, is it just cause they have a longer range and are more reliable ?

goz83

It's not a bad price for Ireland. I got mine 2 months ago with the same miles for less money and it was the SVE version.

obi604

goz83 wrote: »

It's not a bad price for Ireland. I got mine 2 months ago with the same miles for less money and it was the SVE version.

Same year also? Is sve the same as tekna?

KCross

obi604 wrote: »

Right. But then you see a 2014 focus and they are averaging about 16,000 Euro.

Why are they a lot more expensive, is it just cause they have a longer range and are more reliable ?

Most cars depreciate ~50% in 3yrs. That car is €24k new so it's about right.

The EV market in Ireland is also quite small so they depreciate a bit more than "normal" cars.

I'd also guess it's a UK import since they mention the U.K. spec(Acenta) and the Leaf is a good bit cheaper over there as everyone gets large discounts off the RRP.

Balmed Out

Bought from electric autos for 900 less two months ago same spec with 19k miles. Give them and ecocars a shout.

obi604

Balmed Out wrote: »

Bought from electric autos for 900 less two months ago same spec with 19k miles. Give them and ecocars a shout.

So a 141 for 12k. That's great value.

Did you install a home charger thingy? If so, how much was that ?

sgalvin

50% every 3 years a good rule of thumb.
So whatever you pay accept you will loose the 50% of what you pay again in the next 3 years.


Odd, weird or high tax cars are much more severe. We had a very large petrol French car which would have a limited market. We bought at 2.5 years old, it having lost >75% of its value. We sold 3 years later having lost 75% of what we had paid.

Desirable or collectible cars much less depreciation. Smart Roadster and smart ForTwo convertible, we both sold for more than we paid. You can be lucky.

KCross wrote: »

Most cars depreciate ~50% in 3yrs. That car is €24k new so it's about right.

The EV market in Ireland is also quite small so they depreciate a bit more than "normal" cars.

I'd also guess it's a UK import since they mention the U.K. spec(Acenta) and the Leaf is a good bit cheaper over there as everyone gets large discounts off the RRP.

Balmed Out

obi604 wrote: »

So a 141 for 12k. That's great value.

Did you install a home charger thingy? If so, how much was that ?

It was also a 6.6 version so charges twice as fast at home.

the charge point cost 250 from electric autos when buying the car. Your electrician costs depend on situation of the charge point vs the main board and whether you can lay cable yourself.

Definitely worth ringing electric autos who I purchased and would recommend as well as ecocars who I came close to purchasing for same price but top trim without the better in built charge unit.

obi604

Balmed Out wrote: »

It was also a 6.6 version so charges twice as fast at home.

the charge point cost 250 from electric autos when buying the car. Your electrician costs depend on situation of the charge point vs the main board and whether you can lay cable yourself.

Definitely worth ringing electric autos who I purchased and would recommend as well as ecocars who I came close to purchasing for same price but top trim without the better in built charge unit.

Thanks.

How much is a 3 pin granny cable ?

Do you also have to buy yet another cable for use with public chargers ? If so, how much ?

goz83

obi604 wrote: »

Same year also? Is sve the same as tekna?

Yes, SVE is Tekna. It is a 141 with same mileage and chrome pack included. Also had granny cable and the public cable. Car was about €12,500 when converted from sterling.

macnab

I dont think 3 year old Ford Focus are averaging 16k, more like 10k to 12k. Even at that I doubt they will have as high a spec as a SV Leaf.
I think 2nd hand Leaf prices are improving as more drivers make the move to EVs.

obi604

macnab wrote: »

I dont think 3 year old Ford Focus are averaging 16k, more like 10k to 12k. Even at that I doubt they will have as high a spec as a SV Leaf.
I think 2nd hand Leaf prices are improving as more drivers make the move to EVs.

If you look on carzone, 16k is about average. Regardless ICE cars are always that bit more expensive than electric. Im not against leafs at all and not trying to be argumentative, in fact I am seriously thinking of buying a leaf and just wondering why they are so cheap compared to ICE cars. Before I buy, I'm just wondering is the cheapness due to the battery being out of warranty or the limited range rage cars offer. They must be cheap for a reason.

KCross

obi604 wrote: »

If you look on carzone, 16k is about average. Regardless ICE cars are always that bit more expensive than electric. Im not against leafs at all and not trying to be argumentative, in fact I am seriously thinking of buying a leaf and just wondering why they are so cheap compared to ICE cars. Before I buy, I'm just wondering is the cheapness due to the battery being out of warranty or the limited range rage cars offer. They must be cheap for a reason.

The dearer Focus for 16k are generally the Titanium ones which are closer to 28k new. The SV Leaf is 24k new. That's your difference.

Also, the warranty is 5yrs on the battery so you are ok there with a 141.

12k for a 3yr old SV Leaf is relatively normal depreciation for any car (50% in 3yrs).

obi604

KCross wrote: »

The dearer Focus for 16k are generally the Titanium ones which are closer to 28k new. The SV Leaf is 24k new. That's your difference.

Also, the warranty is 5yrs on the battery so you are ok there with a 141.

12k for a 3yr old SV Leaf is relatively normal depreciation for any car (50% in 3yrs).

Ok let's forgot about spec level etc etc

Why is the focus, golf etc etc more expensive new than the leaf ?

KCross

obi604 wrote: »

Ok let's forgot about spec level etc etc

Why is the focus, golf etc etc more expensive new than the leaf ?

Depends on the spec you pick so it's hard to compare.
The Leaf also is artificially low due to grant.

obi604

KCross wrote: »

Depends on the spec you pick so it's hard to compare.
The Leaf also is artificially low due to grant.

Ok my question is being totally over shadowed by spec etc.

Why are electric cars generally cheaper than normal cars ?

Is it just because of the grant.

KCross

obi604 wrote: »

Ok my question is being totally over shadowed by spec etc.

Why are electric cars generally cheaper than normal cars ?

Is it just because of the grant.

I understand your question. You can't remove spec from the question though.

The grant has a large part to play in it. €5k is a lot of money and the zero VRT as well.

macnab

BTW there is a 132 reg Leaf in SV spec for sale on Donedeal, asking €10,900 I think. Thats a lot of car for that money and worth looking at.

sgalvin

Forget about the grant, that just sets the cost price. Spec makes a car more saleable although not necessarily worth more.

Electric cars have lower % residual values for 2 main reasons.
1. There is a lower number of people that would consider or seek out electric cars as they are still in reality a compromise. Running costs vs flexibility.
2. The majority of those that electric want the latest technology (better batteries), so the demand for a used old tech car is very low.

On the plus side the used buyer gets to benefit.

obi604 wrote: »

Ok my question is being totally over shadowed by spec etc.

Why are electric cars generally cheaper than normal cars ?

Is it just because of the grant.

macnab

Spot on sgalvin.
Last year there were 2011 reg leafs for sale at as low as €6000, purely due to supply and demand.
But as demand rises so will the value of 2nd hand EVs. 2011 reg leafs now start at about €8000.
Conversly I see 2nd hand diesels getting cheaper, which id say is due to buyers unwilling to sink their hard earned money in a car that might be all but impossible to sell in a year or 2.

sgalvin wrote: »

Forget about the grant, that just sets the cost price. Spec makes a car more saleable although not necessarily worth more.

Electric cars have lower % residual values for 2 main reasons.
1. There is a lower number of people that would consider or seek out electric cars as they are still in reality a compromise. Running costs vs flexibility.
2. The majority of those that electric want the latest technology (better batteries), so the demand for a used old tech car is very low.

On the plus side the used buyer gets to benefit.

Gumbo

obi604 wrote: »

Ok let's forgot about spec level etc etc

Why is the focus, golf etc etc more expensive new than the leaf ?

obi604 wrote: »

Ok my question is being totally over shadowed by spec etc.

Why are electric cars generally cheaper than normal cars ?

Is it just because of the grant.

You cannot compare a mid spec car against the top spec of a similar car.
You have to pick to similar examples and then compare.

The price is in line with values of second hand ICE cars.

obi604

So the relatively cheaper price of electric cars has nothing to do with battery going out of warranty ?

Gumbo

obi604 wrote: »

So the relatively cheaper price of electric cars has nothing to do with battery going out of warranty ?

Not in my opinion.
Do cars drop in value the day after the engine warranty is up?

obi604

kceire wrote: »

Not in my opinion.
Do cars drop in value the day after the engine warranty is up?

I would imagine they probably would.

Gumbo

obi604 wrote: »

I would imagine they probably would.

In my experience, they don't. It takes time.
England has some great value also.
I got my 141 SVE/Tekna with 57k km for 9980 all in home and taxed for the year. You just have to be looking and ready to pull the trigger.

I have an E60 MSport BMW also, and the Leaf is a better drive. Just easier.

macnab

kceire wrote: »

In my experience, they don't. It takes time.
England has some great value also.
I got my 141 SVE/Tekna with 57k km for 9980 all in home and taxed for the year. You just have to be looking and ready to pull the trigger.

I have an E60 MSport BMW also, and the Leaf is a better drive. Just easier.

My last car was also an e60 (520d) MSport, I had an e39 M5 before that. One of the reasons I have moved away from petrol and diesel engined cars is I was fed up paying for clutches, dual mass flywheels, starter motors and of course overpriced fuel. There was also the looming inevitability of timing chain issues, blown turbos, DPF, EGR and any other nanny devices used to hide emissions. None of which would be covered under BMW warranty for even a 3 year old car.

cros13

KCross wrote: »

?5k is a lot of money and the zero VRT as well.

I wish it was zero VRT... it's a €5k credit.

Gumbo

macnab wrote: »

My last car was also an e60 (520d) MSport, I had an e39 M5 before that. One of the reasons I have moved away from petrol and diesel engined cars is I was fed up paying for clutches, dual mass flywheels, starter motors and of course overpriced fuel. There was also the looming inevitability of timing chain issues, blown turbos, DPF, EGR and any other nanny devices used to hide emissions. None of which would be covered under BMW warranty for even a 3 year old car.

I still have the E60.
Luckily enough, it got the full timing chain replacement free of charge by BMW while getting a routine brake fluid change. €7k worth of work :eek:

macnab

kceire wrote: »

I still have the E60.
Luckily enough, it got the full timing chain replacement free of charge by BMW while getting a routine brake fluid change. €7k worth of work :eek:

A work mate bought a '09 520d with an extended warranty, FBMWSH (M&G) The timing chain went last year and the bill was over 12k, which they begrudgingly picked up the bill for. The turbo went recently and they wanted over 5k to repair that. He ended up paying just over 2k to an independent service agent

He should have got a Prius, one of the most reliable cars ever built !

Casati

obi604 wrote: »

So the relatively cheaper price of electric cars has nothing to do with battery going out of warranty ?

As a potential electric car buyer this is one of the biggest risks I see. If your battery is out of warranty the cost to replace is going to more than the value of the car.

It seems like the Leaf was over engineered and failures are rare, Nissan have pumped money in to establish a brand image etc but the market is tiny for them especially secondhand. Electric car owners tend to be (wealthier) early adopters who will spend a premium for the newest kit, and who don't buy secondhand stuff in general.

I'd say that cars asking price is too high based on the prices some others have paid, its fair to say they offer super value for money secondhand

Casati

obi604 wrote: »

So the relatively cheaper price of electric cars has nothing to do with battery going out of warranty ?

As a potential electric car buyer this is one of the biggest risks I see. If your battery is out of warranty the cost to replace is going to more than the value of the car.

It seems like the Leaf was over engineered and failures are rare, Nissan have pumped money in to establish a brand image etc but the market is tiny for them especially secondhand. Electric car owners tend to be (wealthier) early adopters who will spend a premium for the newest kit, and who don't buy secondhand stuff in general.

I'd say that cars asking price is too high based on the prices some others have paid, its fair to say they offer super value for money secondhand

KCross

Casati wrote: »

As a potential electric car buyer this is one of the biggest risks I see. If your battery is out of warranty the cost to replace is going to more than the value of the car.

Its not like an engine where the entire thing has to be replaced. You can replace individual modules of the battery for reasonable money and our climate has meant that the batteries are extremely reliable... only a handful have ever been replaced so I don't think the battery warranty is that big an issue.

If you buy second hand you just make sure that the car can handle your daily needs on a full charge. If it can do that with a battery that is degraded to 95%, 85% etc doesn't really matter as long as it can do the job.

Casati

KCross wrote: »

Its not like an engine where the entire thing has to be replaced. You can replace individual modules of the battery for reasonable money and our climate has meant that the batteries are extremely reliable... only a handful have ever been replaced so I don't think the battery warranty is that big an issue.

If you buy second hand you just make sure that the car can handle your daily needs on a full charge. If it can do that with a battery that is degraded to 95%, 85% etc doesn't really matter as long as it can do the job.

I didn't know that, and I've been lurking here for a while. I think that info like this needs to be part of the manufacture sale marketing , i.e. They do a terrible job of educating the potential customers

Gumbo

Casati wrote: »

I didn't know that, and I've been lurking here for a while. I think that info like this needs to be part of the manufacture sale marketing , i.e. They do a terrible job of educating the potential customers

In fairness, a bmw salesman will
Never tell you that you can change the guide rails in the effected 20d engine, or that the swirl flaps can be blanked to prevent ingestion etc

BoatMad

We had a particular issue in 2016 that is exclusive to the leaf. Large numbers of 2nd leafs came off PCP in the U.K. These had been all sold at the time at significant discount and the glut was greater then the 2nd hand demand

Along came Brexit fears , and a drooping pound coupled with tks vrt removal ( on a leaf ) offered Irish 2nd leaf buyers a cheap alternative to the very limited 2nd availability of " Irish native " leafs.

That window is closing as uk demand is beginning to mop up 2nd hands , and also the idiotic PCP deals are not available. ( not to mention what is likely to happen on a hard Brexit ?

Battery warranty is now 8 years on 30 kWh leafs and in the US Hyundai is effectively offering unlimited duration warranties. To anyone that do their " sums" battery degradation simply isn't an issue.

Further more batteries can be replaced in modular form and in tone third party batteries will be available.

But , the fact is battery degradation simply isn't an issue. Even at 80-85 percent the car remains usable and thus will be more so as overall kWh increases.

If anything as EV penetration. Improves. The 2nd hand market is likely to tighten as demand rises. Unlike ice models , there is no historical store of used EV cars to choose from.

Menton is made of newer Technology driving down prices of used EVs.

This simply doesn't withstand inspection , this isn't an iPhone , this is likely one of the most significant financial purchase many people make.

Hence there will always be a significant number of people that simply cannot afford a new " latest tech " EV and those are the people that are active on the various levels of the 2nd hand marketplace

magentis

BoatMad wrote: »

We had a particular issue in 2016 that is exclusive to the leaf. Large numbers of 2nd leafs came off PCP in the U.K. These had been all sold at the time at significant discount and the glut was greater then the 2nd hand demand

Along came Brexit fears , and a drooping pound coupled with tks vrt removal ( on a leaf ) offered Irish 2nd leaf buyers a cheap alternative to the very limited 2nd availability of " Irish native " leafs.

That window is closing as uk demand is beginning to mop up 2nd hands , and also the idiotic PCP deals are not available. ( not to mention what is likely to happen on a hard Brexit ?

Battery warranty is now 8 years on 30 kWh leafs and in the US Hyundai is effectively offering unlimited duration warranties. To anyone that do their " sums" battery degradation simply isn't an issue.

Further more batteries can be replaced in modular form and in tone third party batteries will be available.

But , the fact is battery degradation simply isn't an issue. Even at 80-85 percent the car remains usable and thus will be more so as overall kWh increases.

If anything as EV penetration. Improves. The 2nd hand market is likely to tighten as demand rises. Unlike ice models , there is no historical store of used EV cars to choose from.

Menton is made of newer Technology driving down prices of used EVs.

This simply doesn't withstand inspection , this isn't an iPhone , this is likely one of the most significant financial purchase many people make.

Hence there will always be a significant number of people that simply cannot afford a new " latest tech " EV and those are the people that are active on the various levels of the 2nd hand marketplace

To be honest,as battery tech improves if a car cannot do 100 miles on a charge,it will become worthless very fast.This happens to early adapters with technology time after time,and lets face it,we are still very much in an early adapter stage when it comes to ev's.

BoatMad

magentis wrote: »

To be honest,as battery tech improves if a car cannot do 100 miles on a charge,it will become worthless very fast.This happens to early adapters with technology time after time,and lets face it,we are still very much in an early adapter stage when it comes to ev's.

It's a mistake to equate IT tech with EVs. Their is a certain equivalence , but ultimately it's a mechanical contraption not a computing device.

Hence just like there is bangernomics in ice , there will also be value in EVs at all " tech " levels

And especially so in a expanding market unlike ice which is essentially a replacement market

obi604

Does the 2014 leaf in Tekna spec use LED light bulbs? (As opposed to the bog standard light bulbs)

Edit: I may be thinking of xenon lights also. Which are the ones that are very expensive to replace ?

goz83

obi604 wrote: »

Does the 2014 leaf in Tekna spec use LED light bulbs? (As opposed to the bog standard light bulbs)

Edit: I may be thinking of xenon lights also. Which are the ones that are very expensive to replace ?

Yes, the headlights are led, but the rest of lights are not. I installed led DRLs and parking lights. The interior courtesy bulbs are also led I think.

Xenon are expensive to replace, especially when the ballast dies.

Gumbo

obi604 wrote: »

Does the 2014 leaf in Tekna spec use LED light bulbs? (As opposed to the bog standard light bulbs)

Edit: I may be thinking of xenon lights also. Which are the ones that are very expensive to replace ?

Xenon is older technology. LED is the way forward with regards to lighting. The Leaf Tekna has LED factory fitted.

In order of quality
LED
XENON
Halogen

obi604

kceire wrote: »

Xenon is older technology. LED is the way forward with regards to lighting. The Leaf Tekna has LED factory fitted.

In order of quality
LED
XENON
Halogen

Thanks. Are LED headlights expensive ?

Do LED lights only come on the Tekna spec ?

n97 mini

obi604 wrote: »

Thanks. Are LED headlights expensive ?

Do LED lights only come on the Tekna spec ?

LED came as standard on all original models (2011+) but on the 1.5 (late 2013+) they're only on the SVE/Tekna.

If you have a car with halogen bulbs just live with them. Replacing the bulbs with HIDs or LEDs will give poor results, more often than not.

unkel

obi604 wrote: »

So the relatively cheaper price of electric cars has nothing to do with battery going out of warranty ?

Hold on a second. The only currently still available EV that is relatively cheaper / has more depreciation than an ICE is the Leaf which has been for sale since 2010 and is on the way out. Most other EVs don't depreciate at the same rates!

An interesting fact is that Tesla EVs depreciate less than any other cars!

The good thing about Leaf depreciation is that you can get great deals on second hand ones. Someone in here recently bought a 2016 Leaf with the €3000 optional extra bigger battery (30kWh) for €12,800. Now that's a lot of car for your money.

obi604

n97 mini wrote: »

LED came as standard on all original models (2011+) but on the 1.5 (late 2013+) they're only on the SVE/Tekna.

If you have a car with halogen bulbs just live with them. Replacing the bulbs with HIDs or LEDs will give poor results, more often than not.

The reason I am asking all this is cause I want to stay away from cars with expensive light bulbs, just want simplicity.

obi604

unkel wrote: »

Hold on a second. The only currently still available EV that is relatively cheaper / has more depreciation than an ICE is the Leaf which has been for sale since 2010 and is on the way out. Most other EVs don't depreciate at the same rates!

An interesting fact is that Tesla EVs depreciate less than any other cars!

The good thing about Leaf depreciation is that you can get great deals on second hand ones. Someone in here recently bought a 2016 Leaf with the €3000 optional extra bigger battery (30kWh) for €12,800. Now that's a lot of car for your money.

Christ, that's some bargain !!!
How the hell did rhey get it for that

obi604

Can anybody be tell me the price of replacing an LED headlight bulb in a 2014 Nissan Leaf?

Gumbo

obi604 wrote: »

Can anybody be tell me the price of replacing an LED headlight bulb in a 2014 Nissan Leaf?

In theory they shouldn't go.
I don't know of anyone that has had to replace one yet.

obi604

kceire wrote: »

In theory they shouldn't go.
I don't know of anyone that has had to replace one yet.

Oh ok.

But any rough estimate. ?